Snare and hi-hat setup in the studio: One mic for both or one mic apiece?

[Joel Terry]

For live performances, I know that the snare and hi-hat are usually mic'ed with one mic; however, this must not apply to a lot of recording situations, what with volume/EQ/compression/panning/etc. considerations--or does it? What seems to be the preferred snare/hi-hat mic setup in the studio?

If each does, in fact, get its own dedicated mic in a recording situation, where is the mic for each placed?

Thanks,
Joel

[Big John]

20 engineers would probably give you 20 different answers so 'Dummies' to the rescue and then 'tweak to fit' !!

http://eu.dummies.com/WileyCDA/how-t...ng-studio.html


http://www.wikirecording.org/Shure%2...rum_Kit_Miking

[Donnie55]

Use two mics, find the sweet spot on the snare. Use a condenser mic on the hat , place it above the hi hat aiming down. That will reduce bleed from the rest of the kit. Roll the low end back on the hi hat mic. I would not use EQ or compression while tracking , save that for when you mix. A 57 works fine for the snare. Also I prefer to mic the top of the snare , you can mic top and bottom. Bottom mic placement can be tricky.

[woodman]

i've seen one mike work for both, but placement is super-critical and it's worth spending some time doing micro-adjustments. But let's face it, Donnie's method is better if you've got plenty of mikes and channels.

[Tim Armstrong]

I mic the snare so as to get as little hi-hat as possible, and let my overhead mic or mics (depending on how I'm mic-ing the kit) cover the high hat along with the rest of the cymbals.

I like to keep it simple, though...

Tim

[Ben Harmless]

I would actually say that the most common approach is two mics. Too much high hat in the snare mic is always a problem. In fact, too much high hat everywhere is a huge problem for at least 40% of drummers. For that reason, I will frequently forgo a hat mic all together and get what I need from it with the overheads.

...Of course, there are a million other techniques, and I've had success mic'ing a whole kit with a single SM81 right over the drummer's head, and pointing forward slightly - and that's in a live situation.

IMHO, hats should be a privilege and drummers who use them too much and too loudly should have it revoked.

[Skully]

IMHO, hats should be a privilege and drummers who use them too much and too loudly should have it revoked.

That's how I feel about the ride.

[Old Cane]

Originally Posted by Big John

20 engineers would probably give you 20 different answers so 'Dummies' to the rescue and then 'tweak to fit' !!

http://eu.dummies.com/WileyCDA/how-t...ng-studio.html


http://www.wikirecording.org/Shure%2...rum_Kit_Miking

I think it would be way more than 20.

[rand z]

if you have the mics and an extra channel, id mic both separately... better control.

drums can be tough.


rand z

[Geoff738]

I never mic the hat anymore.

It gets in everything else anyways.

But, never say never.

I'm more a fan of minimal micing these days anyhow.

Cheers,
Geoff

[Joel Terry]

Originally Posted by Ben Harmless

IMHO, (hi-)hats should be a privilege and drummers who use them too much and too loudly should have it revoked.

Originally Posted by Skully

That's how I feel about the ride.

A bit of a sidetrack from the thread subject:

Considering your respective comments, Ben and Todd, I have to ask about your opinion of Stewart Copeland--an undisputed and unapologetic hi-hat and ride demon: Do you give him a pass, or do you think he merits censure right along with everyone else?

I hope this doesn't come across as snarky; to the contrary, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. (Frankly, B and T, you two are among a very small, select cadre of TDPers I truly admire and respect; hence, I'm always genuinely interested in your opinions, regardless of subject! )

Joel

[Skully]

Considering your respective comments, Ben and Todd, I have to ask about your opinion of Stewart Copeland--an undisputed and unapologetic hi-hat and ride demon: Do you give him a pass, or do you think he merits censure right along with everyone else?

In the context of The Police, he's great.

If I wanted to criticize him, I'd say he tends to be a bit too busy and and can be loose and slightly sloppy, at times.

I actually like his ride work. I think he uses the bell a lot, no? What I really hate is splashy white noise symbol work or busy ride patterns that fight the song.

[octatonic]

I mic up hats but I guess I use them in the mix around one time in ten.

IMHO it is best to isolate hihat out of the snare mic(s) as much as you can.
A hypercardioid mic is useful as it rejects like the pic below.



I pick up the hihat in the overheads, not the snare mic.

I favour a 3 mic technique with 2 small diaphragm condensers over the kit and a 'God' mic equi-distant between them that is used for crushing/treating with a lot of compression.

[backalleyblues]

If you've got the channels, go ahead and use 2 mics. hi hat mic, besides being a condensor, should also be placed on the outside of the hat, opposite from where the drummer strikes the hat. 2 reasons for this-less stick noise, and the hat will help cut down on bleed from the snare drum into the hat mic.

Otherwise, I say just use the overheads with most drummers, it tends to sound more natural that way...

Franc Robert

[tboy]

I tried one mic for awhile, but could never achieve a sweet sounding hat AND a punchy snare. Gotta be two. Always a 57 or 421 on snare, and always an AKG C451EB on the hat. Yet to find anything better, for my taste.

If I can get it far enough away from the hat, and still get the attack I want with no phase issues, the hat mic can be half of my overheads, with another C451 somewhere over the low tom.

[Jason S]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I mic the snare so as to get as little hi-hat as possible, and let my overhead mic or mics (depending on how I'm mic-ing the kit) cover the high hat along with the rest of the cymbals.

I like to keep it simple, though...

Tim

When I took recording engineering classes at SF state. This is how they taught us how to do it. Works great.

[brewwagon]

mic should be placed above the hi-hat set at a 45* angle to the center point above the open point of the top cymbal
it should always be located on the side away from the
drummer

bw

[mudbean]

What genre of music? Are the snare & HH the only two elements of the drum set being used? For what I'm thinking (jazz or Americana type stuff, maybe played with brushes?), I would think that you will want as much of the "snare" sound as possible, which is found on the underside of the snare drum, where those buzzy spring thingies are. I would consider an extra mic there - if you do, be sure to check for phase issues with the top snare mic.

mud

[fendorst]

two mics. for the whole kit.

[rbrienzo]

I have mic'ed up the hi hat 100's of times and never once turned up the fader at mix down. It's often a job getting rid of it.

The less microphones the better. For every mic you add you get a new set of possible phasing issues. A whole drum set mic'ed up with three mic's is a beautiful thing. one kick and two overheads.