time for new computer; which one?

[Headshot]

Hi all, I tried the search button, but didn't find what I was looking for.

I am ready to get a new computer as my laptop is 8 yrs old, and I am looking at desktops and laptops. Now that I want to start recording into my computer, which way is the best way? Desktop or laptop? Any particular brand? As you can see, I have absolutely no clue.....

[Fogboundturtle]

get a mac.(let the war begin).

[Martin R]

More info...but get a Mac.


Martin
__________________________
E. Christina Herr & Wild Frontier

[Headshot]

I am not opposed to getting a Mac.....that is why I am asking here. I have never tried recording, but I will be asking Santa for recording software(which will be another thread as to which one). My laptop is 8 yrs old, Dell Latitude 410, which I am going to wipe out and donate. I will get a laptop to go with the desktop for personal use, like road trips etc, so a desktop is desired.

[Old Cane]

You will either get more performance for the same money with a desktop or the same performance for less money with a desktop. As for mac or pc, I am only a pc guy just like some only like macs.That's gonna have to be your choice. I'm the guy that actually likes Microsoft.

[jjh37854]

don't bother with a desktop and a laptop, just get a power book, pleanty of processing speed, reliability, ease of use, I use it with the m-box2 with stellar results.

you can still have a workspace setup with a bigger monitor/s and external keyboard and mouse if you want and just use the powerbook as desktop in that situation.

[-Vampyre-]

My gf uses a mac for her art stuff. I use a pc, but it has linux on it now. I am not opposed to either. I think anyone can use whatever OS they want. They all do the same thing for the average home user. I buy according to hardware specs for price, and with a pc you get more for your money. I use a recording based linux OS running on a 5 year old laptop, and it works pretty well.

[Ormond]

No, really - - the new 27 inch Hi-Def iMac is available in a few weeks....PROTOOLS or any other good multitrack program needs all the horizontal space it can get.....this new iMac, just announced last week, is the perfect music computer.

and to buddy Lee, I have both a Mac and a PC and I would never, never do music stuff on a PC - been there, tried to do that, never again.

[Martin R]

And just to pile on....a Mac comes with GarageBand. An incredibly intuitive piece of software that will have you recording in less than an hour. (Okay, you'll need a hardware interface.) We did an entire CD on GB.

And yes, Macs are for people who don't know how to work a PC.

Martin
___________________________
E. Christina Herr & Wild Frontier

[Headshot]

by the way, I have XP Professional, and I am not COMPLETELY PC-Illiterate, but.....

Let's forget the PC vs Mac thing, more important to me is what do I need in the way of;
1. memory
2. processing speed
3. hard drive, although an external hard drive is probably going to be sitting on my desk
4. sound card, etc

see? this is more useful info to me. So far I must thank everyone for input....

[idoru]

The one thing I _do_ see as a retail employee in the tech sector, is that for things like external hard drives, the Mac version costs at least 10% more for no apparent reason.

I play the odd game, and enjoy building a machine from the mobo up, so that's why I stick with PC. It also helps that I've received legitimate copies of Windows through my work for free (first Vista, now 7 - hooray!).

c-

[Headshot]

oops....I always have in my garage a Harley AND a BMW motorcycle.......oh well, I thought I rode them just cuz I liked them....and they are both reliable machines. My last Harley had 104,000 miles when I sold it, and the new owner has already put 20,000 since getting it from me 2 years ago. My BMW had 217,000 miles on it when that sold, and the new owner has taken it to Alaska and back, Sturgis twice, somewhere in vicinity of another 70,000 miles......

So, again, I really don't want a PC vs Mac war here, just info on what matters....

[Fogboundturtle]

BTW, I know how to load OSX on a PC *wink* . I believe in copyrights and don't wish to infringed copyrights laws. All my OS are legitimate.

I do not hate Windows. I have made a living because of Microsoft. They are the reason why I make $$$ today. Never bite the hands that feeds you. Mac's are not cripple. Unlike Ms, every subsequent Mac OSX release makes their hardware faster then the previous version. Try to do that on PC ?

If you apply your logic to guitar, then all American made guitar (Fender, Gibson) are all overpriced status symbol. Some might agreed with you but you get more out of a American deluxe Strat/Tele compare to a MiM one.

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by BuddyLee

It just depends whether or not someone is a casual computer user or someone who knows the in and outs of PCs well.

I am a casual computer user in the same way I am a casual car/TV/refrigerator/amplifier/washing machine/camera/stereo/lawnmower/dishwasher/flashlight/vacuum cleaner/motorcycle/printer/telephone/......................... user.

I'm not sure there is another tool we use for everyday life except a PC that we need to be some form of technical guru to use. Over my 19 years of PC & Mac use I have only encountered a miniscule bump on the Mac when I upgraded from one machine to the next.

I want to drive to the store, not configure a carburetor.
I want dry clothes, not set the clock speed on a spin cycle.
I just want to play guitar, not be an electrical technician.

I think it's great that people want to build amps, restore cars, configure computer systems. But I'm pretty confident there are a couple people who extol the PC only that own off the shelf TV's.

[StuH]

Staying out of this one.

Been tempted to type but I'm not gonna.

[Tim Armstrong]

Sigh...

So much passion when other folks choose differently than we do!

As you might have already guessed, there are a lot of ways to skin that cat. One very large consideration would be what ELSE you plan on doing with the computer. It's generally not optimal to use your recording computer for internot use, for instance.

My own approach (and it's just MY approach, not saying it's better than any other) is to use my laptop for the internot, and my desktop computer for recording. Mine are PCs running XP, mostly for budgetary reasons (and because I'm comfortable with what I'm used to), and I use Reaper recording software. My desktop is also equipped with a pair of M-Audio Delta 1010lt soundcards, which permit me to record up to eight tracks at a time each, not that I often need that many.

If I had lots of money, I'd probably get a Mac and use Garageband or Reason.

But for my purposes, I've gotten excellent results using the stuff mentioned above...

Tim

[Jerry J]

Mac people! PC people! Why can't we just learn to get along!

[electricbody]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

I want to drive to the store, not configure a carburetor.
I want dry clothes, not set the clock speed on a spin cycle.
I just want to play guitar, not be an electrical technician.

+1

Now back on topic.

Whatever you buy, load it up with memory. VST plugins get loaded into memory. Audio is memory and processor intensive.

Get a second hard drive. It can be a second internal or external drive. Faster is better (7200 RPM). Record to the hard drive that isn't running your OS.

Inputs. Decide on Firewire or USB. Firewire can be faster than USB. I've never had a problem with powering a Firewire device, but have had trouble powering devices through the USB port.

When recording, shut down the Internet connection and/or make sure things like automatic updates are shut off.

[Tdot]

Originally Posted by electricbody

Inputs. Decide on Firewire or USB. Firewire can be faster than USB. I've never had a problem with powering a Firewire device, but have had trouble powering devices through the USB port.

Although USB2 is supposed to be a little faster than Firewire400, I've had better luck with Firewire. And Firewire800 is out of the park.

When choosing external drive type consider that multiple USB drives will require a USB hub, Firewire can be daisy chained.

Love my Mac, but UNIX or Windows can do the trick for you. More RAM and fast/big drives, is always a good plan when working with audio, video, and large graphic files. Having your CPU waiting to receive data is a drag.

The software that you intend to use will list minimum/recommended requirements to run it. The good news is: todays laptops are capable for this type of work, and give you portability. But a desktop at the same price will get you a better machine.

[stevieboy]

[Headshot]

well, I am now sorry I asked this question......it seems that some on here are ignorant when it comes to common courtesies and civilities.....I was better off going to Guitar Center and asking for the best jazz guitar and seeing what the "heavy metal kids" that work there come up with.

Please disregard my question, obviously I will need to just take a chance and figure this out myself. Thanks to those of you that actually answered my question.........the others, well, maybe you should just relax and try staying on point from now on.

[Old Cane]

Well, again, I say desktop. If you are getting both great but the point I was trying to make is you will get better performance out of a desktop or get the same for less money. The OS is up to you and only you.

[Ben Harmless]

If I were putting together a recording machine, I'd go with a PC of my own construction. You want to max out the RAM - it's cheap - unless you're going to be running one of the fancier 64-bit versions of Windows 7 that maxes out at something like 256 gigs. That much may not be absolutely necessary.

Processing speed is critical. You don't need that much to get your feet wet, but if you're putting together a machine for recording, you might as well not buy only what you can get away with. The processing power is directly related to your final ability to play back a whole lot of tracks with a whole lot of effects. That's just the bottom line. I wouldn't buy anything less than something from the midrange of the latest generation of processors. Exactly what that means right now is debatable, because Intel is dragging its feet on implementing the USB 3.0 standard in its mobo chipsets, so AMD is looking a little better and better to me at the moment.

Hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. Get a dedicated internal drive for audio. Make sure it's 7200 RPM, but other specs are more important these days. Some folks use Firewire drives. Yeah, they work, but I prefer to keep things simple and just transfer my junk off when I'm not using it anymore.

Personally, I'd go PC. The PC share of the market is growing fast. Without exception, all of the people I know who record professionally are using PCs at this point. This is likely because of a number of factors, but hardware compatibility and affordability are likely the major ones. When folks are embracing the new USB 3.0 gear a year from now, those who spend their $3000 on the MacBook Pro are going to be out of luck. Desktop PC users will drop in a PCI card.

PCI slots are also worth considering, as they are currently simply the best and most stable interfaces for recording hardware. Take a look and see which format the hardware you might be interested uses, and get a couple more slots than you have an immediate need for.

Personally, though I can't claim decades of experience, I have worked on both PCs and Macs in professional environments doing graphic design and layout work. The Mac crashed as often as my PC did, and my PC didn't get any viruses. The same goes for my personal machine, (which hasn't actually crashed in years) because I know how to use antivirus software.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and point out that someone who is looking at investing money into a computer intended specifically for recording is not going to pay the premium for a Mac just so they can get Garageband.

[idoru]

Originally Posted by Tdot

Although USB2 is supposed to be a little faster than Firewire400, I've had better luck with Firewire. And Firewire800 is out of the park.

The on-paper speed of USB 2.0 is ~ 480 Mb/second, but apparently that only counts in small bursts.

Firewire is 400 & 800 Mb/s, but the real champ is eSATA which can be 3 Gb/s. Those figures all count for sustained transfer, which is why most people are happier with firewire connections.

</nerd>

c-

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by Ben Harmless

Personally, though I can't claim decades of experience, I have worked on both PCs and Macs in professional environments doing graphic design and layout work. The Mac crashed as often as my PC did, and my PC didn't get any viruses. The same goes for my personal machine, (which hasn't actually crashed in years) because I know how to use antivirus software.

I'd also note that it would be extremely difficult for my recording PC to get a virus, as it's not connected to the Internot!



Tim

[Televised]

I have 2 home PCs. I just got a new hard drive for one and am staying with XP. For my other PC I plan on buying a Mac Mini real soon so I'll have some kind of comparison. I just don't feel comfortable with jumping on the Windows 7 band wagon after Vista. I am curious about Linux and have heard nothing but positive feedback but don't know much about it.

[Old Cane]

I don't want to start anothe big stink or anything but since I don't have any idea as to what the answer is I'll go ahead and ask. Do you Mac guys not run anti-virus? I just figured everybody did. I've never used a Mac so don't yell at me.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

I don't want to start anothe big stink or anything but since I don't have any idea as to what the answer is I'll go ahead and ask. Do you Mac guys not run anti-virus? I just figured everybody did. I've never used a Mac so don't yell at me.

nope, not since the mid-'90s ... i ain't saying it couldn't happen, but most virus writers would rather screw the 90% of the world who run Windows rather than the trifling few of us Mac users (who may have a false sense of security).

[backalleyblues]

OK, Here's my .02 (and yes, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Mac guy)...

If you're really comfortable and good at keeping up on viruses, service packs, troubleshooting etc., then you'll probably be fine on a PC. Just don't expect a $300 el-cheapo box to be really able to do anything. For music recording, make sure EVERYTHING in the box is quality-top-notch motherboard, HD (Seagates are my favorite, never had one fail!), at least 2 (and preferably 4) gigs of RAM, stout power supply, PCI-X slots if you're doing a larger box, Firewire, and good ventilation fans. Speed is important, but also how wide the data paths are is just as important.

If you have inner-geek needs, then use Linux. I know it's gotten a lot easier over the years to use Linux, but it still has a pretty steep learning curve. Since Linux has a LOT lower overhead on the processor and RAM, you can get away with a slower processor and less RAM-the tradeoff comes in getting things "just right"...

If on the other hand, you just want to do things, and want as little monkeying around with the computer as possible, then get a Mac. The current crop of iMacs are pretty darn nice, and all that screen real estate comes in very handy, indeed. Plus, you get GarageBand, the best entry-level recording software out there (imo). Hook up the interface of your choice, and go...

For Buddy Lee: In case you haven't noticed, Macs have been running Intel processors for 4 years now (Core Duos in the iMacs and minis, Quad-core Xeons in the towers) so it's much more apples-to-apples than it used to be. Further, the iMac displays flat smoke nearly any flat screen monitor out there. I know, I'm a graphic artist who does intensive color work for a living, and to get the same quality of monitor on a PC, you'd be spending >$600 just for a monitor. Throw in the same level of hardware on a PC, and you'd be a LOT closer in price (probably about $100 difference) than you would think...

To the original poster: Decide for yourself your comfort level with computers, then choose accordingly... they're all means to an end, nothing more or less.

Franc Robert

[superhand]

+1 for Linux

If you like paying too much for stuff because of the brand name, then get a Mac, and get a brand new Gibson Les Paul while you are at it. Otherwise, get on newegg.com and build your own system, they way you want it, for way less money, and run Ubuntu Linux on it. That's what I am going to do for my next upgrade. The learning curve really isn't that bad for Linux, especially Ubuntu, and there is some really killer free music software for it.

[BuddyLee]

Originally Posted by backalleyblues

OK, Here's my .02 (and yes, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Mac guy)...

If you're really comfortable and good at keeping up on viruses, service packs, troubleshooting etc., then you'll probably be fine on a PC. Just don't expect a $300 el-cheapo box to be really able to do anything. For music recording, make sure EVERYTHING in the box is quality-top-notch motherboard, HD (Seagates are my favorite, never had one fail!), at least 2 (and preferably 4) gigs of RAM, stout power supply, PCI-X slots if you're doing a larger box, Firewire, and good ventilation fans. Speed is important, but also how wide the data paths are is just as important.

If you have inner-geek needs, then use Linux. I know it's gotten a lot easier over the years to use Linux, but it still has a pretty steep learning curve. Since Linux has a LOT lower overhead on the processor and RAM, you can get away with a slower processor and less RAM-the tradeoff comes in getting things "just right"...

If on the other hand, you just want to do things, and want as little monkeying around with the computer as possible, then get a Mac. The current crop of iMacs are pretty darn nice, and all that screen real estate comes in very handy, indeed. Plus, you get GarageBand, the best entry-level recording software out there (imo). Hook up the interface of your choice, and go...

For Buddy Lee: In case you haven't noticed, Macs have been running Intel processors for 4 years now (Core Duos in the iMacs and minis, Quad-core Xeons in the towers) so it's much more apples-to-apples than it used to be. Further, the iMac displays flat smoke nearly any flat screen monitor out there. I know, I'm a graphic artist who does intensive color work for a living, and to get the same quality of monitor on a PC, you'd be spending >$600 just for a monitor. Throw in the same level of hardware on a PC, and you'd be a LOT closer in price (probably about $100 difference) than you would think...

To the original poster: Decide for yourself your comfort level with computers, then choose accordingly... they're all means to an end, nothing more or less.

Franc Robert

Sorry, but a 26" Samsung TFT that is superior in every way to your 24" Imac TFT screen that is probably made by Samsung can be had on sale at any of my 3 local Fry's Electronics for ~$425. Not $600. Maybe that is what Apple charged you for your 24". You can get a 27" LG for $399.

Apple started using Intel CPUs because their hardware was inferior. Now they use the same components as a PC only you cannot overclock them, some components have to be "Mac compatible" which are always more expensive. Apple will not sell its Operating System separate like Microsoft, so their business strategy is to sell you an entire machine just to "legally" use their operating system. You can't just shell out $200 like you can for XP Pro and install it on whatever machine you want, or reinstall it on a machine you changed the motherboard out on and need a fresh install.


Also, you mention 4GB of RAM but did not mention that only 64bit Operating Systems can utilize 4GB of RAM. In a 32bit OS you will be able to use ~2.75GB - 3.5GB of that RAM and it can cause memory problems. Not to mention there are no programs in a 32bit OS that can even utilize 2GB of RAM.

But I agree, the OP should just get a Mac and be done with it. For a tech enthusiast I would get a PC.

[imwjl]

I have new Apple and Dell portables personally and have probably bought and staged a few dozen recently that include HP and Lenovo too.

If you have a Latitude you'll find an Apple to be another first tier product like the Latitude. The Apple will get more value if you will use the programs like Garage Band, iMovie etc...

I don't dislike my new Apple and it's running the new 10.6 OS but my new Latitude (6500) has a far superior keyboard and display. You will have to pay MUCH more to get a Mac with a matte display and I can't stand the shiny displays. Another Latitude will also offer superior support. A fraction of AppleCare's price gets you next day on site service.

I will also note that I've had less hiccups and compatibility issues with Windows 7 than I have with the OS X 10.6.

Make sure you look for Latitudes in the Dell Outlet if you consider another one. I've bought a few in past weeks that were usually about 25% less than same thing new.

If I had any disappointment it with all the new models I'm placing it has been with Lenovo. They are not the beloved ThinkPads of old.

[jefsut]

So BuddyLee, what do you use for recording software?

I've used Audacity on Windows.

I'm thinking of going Linux myself, but I don't want to have to build anything myself.

[Tim Armstrong]

Moderators note:

I removed several posts from this thread that were antagonistic. It's absolutely acceptable to recommend whatever gear you prefer, but attacks on what other folks are using (be it Mac, PC or Linux) won't be allowed, because that kind of thing ignites flame wars, and we just don't swing that way on the TDPRI.

Thank you for your cooperation!

Tim

[woodman]

one huge issue in this thread is the cost of Macs. i've always preferred them (though i've used Windows in the workplace) because most of the software i use, outside the routine internet apps and so forth, is creative in nature — music and graphic arts.

since i'm nowhere close to rich, i've never bought new ... i wait for people to start dumping their "old" machines (often a year old) for the latest whiz-bang release, then pick up the previous model as a refurb or used from a trustworthy source. i've usually gotten at least three years' use out of them, until the software outruns my hardware. the latest-and-greatest isn't my concern as long as i have something that gets the job done without a whole lot of futzing around.

[Old Cane]

That's interesting in your post after mine, wood. I had not idea. Now, I've never had a virus but I don't do goofy things and go to questionable sites. Since I've been in charge of our AV install here at work we've never been hit either. But it could happen.

Again, I just think it's whatever OS you like best. The one reason I don't care for Apple is that Apple is Apple. PC/IBM compatable is everybody else so you have more brand choice. But that's their (Apple) business model and I don't see that they have suffered for it with all the customer loyalty they have. They just haven't done well in the business world. We're an MS partner here and almost total MS in the data centers. I just stay with what I'm used to as I bet most of us do.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I'd also note that it would be extremely difficult for my recording PC to get a virus, as it's not connected to the Internot!

And thats a great point, I think the 'net has been the ruination of many a good computer whatever flavour you choose !
I prefer Macs but keep my recording one a long way from an internet connection, I don't want the extra software, cookies, nag screens or anything to do with all that stuff, if you can seperate them it's a good idea.

I really don't know the market for used Windows machines but as woodman say's you can pick up some great bargains on used Mac's, now the OS has been updated again it's a good time to be looking too.

Good luck with which ever you choose though, you can get some great advice/tips here !!

[Skully]

Like others have said, get a desktop machine with the fastest processor you can afford and a separate hard drive for music recording. If you're doing any halfway serious recording, you'll want it. These things come cheaper with a PC. So does the software. The machine might not look like a cast-off prop from "Barbarella," but it will probably get the job done better.

I recommend avoiding laptops for recording. You get less bang for the buck and less versatility. I've done my share of recording on laptops, and even when you've got an up-to-date machine (as I've had) with a fast hard drive (which are not standard issue in laptops), you're going to going to run into frustrations. They just don't keep up as well as desktops.

[mattytee74]

Hello,

I have been a computer technician since 1985 and have watched all the major operating systems and companies grow up (and some die off). I've been using computers to record music since 1996. And I've used EVerything. Sound Forge, Cakewalk and Sonar, Cool Edit, Cubase, Logic, etc.

I strongly recommend a Mac. I'm using the cheapest white Macbook, with 4 gigs of RAM and the stock 5400RPM, 120 gig hard drive. I use both a USB Line 6 toneport and a Firewire Presonus when I need lots of inputs.

After having used all the software above, I can unreservedly recommend GarageBand as the greatest value in software today. It comes with any Mac.

I am in an academic setting and have the option of buying recording software at drastically reduced prices, and I choose to stay with GarageBand. I still haven't run into limitations, and I have been running this setup for almost 2 years. I run softsynths, plugins, and often run 8 tracks in at a time through the Presonus, and have never had a hiccup or issue with the software. I often run 16 tracks with multiple plugins on each individual track without any problems at all. I run my Alesis studio monitors right off the Presonus. In fact, I can also recommend Presonus very highly -- this is a bulletproof piece of gear, with wonderful mic pres. I think the mic pres beat the pants off Mackie's.

I do not work for Apple or Presonus.

Apple's customer service is bar none the best you will get. It reminds me of how HP used to be with their high-end laser printers. I had an issue, and Apple overnighted me a box. I overnighted that to them on their dime, they fixed my machine (cracking of the plastic case) *that day*, and overnighted it back. I was without it for a grand total of 3 days -- that kind of service barely exists anymore in any industry.

You can run Windows on a Mac.

If you go the Windows route, I can recommend a piece of multitrack software called Reaper. It is very inexpensive and has less bloat and more features than just about any other piece of software out there. It is very fast and pleasant to use, though nowhere near as intuitive and fast as GarageBand.

Good luck,
Matt

[stratology]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I'd also note that it would be extremely difficult for my recording PC to get a virus, as it's not connected to the Internot!



Tim

+1. That's the way all pros (that I know) work with audio on Windows boxes - and it's another good point to advertise the Mac


Mac advantages for audio:
- you can have 1 machine for everything (including internet)
- you do not get any performance hit by running antivirus software
- you do not have to tweak the system - you can easily have 400-500 apps installed
- centralised plug-in management: you install a plug once, it's available for all audio apps
- core audio and core midi - some interfaces don't even require to install a single driver..
- OS X defrags automatically in the background - don't have to buy defrag utilities, you don't have to run any maintenance
- you do not have to buy 2 computers with 2 different operating systems to run 32 bit and 64 bit apps side by side
- you do not have to reinstall the OS once or twice a year
- you have a modern, sophisticated, metadata based search engine: you can search for files by composer, bit rate, channel count, GM sequence, instrument, loop file type, sample rate, tempo, streamability, etc. - system wide
- you have Automator - you can use that for cross application batch processing, for example, like automatically searching for all .wav files created last week, then encoding them as .mp3, then backing them up to an external drive, etc.
- you can listen to any audio file without opening an app - select it and hit space bar, hit the arrow key to move to the next one without closing the first one etc.
- you can use Time Machine - plug in an external drive, activate it with 1 click, and you always have backups of your files - and you can easily roll back to an earlier version of an audio file, without rolling back the whole OS
- you don't have to back up manually, then wipe your disk, then install the OS, then move files back manually, if you skip one point release of the OS