How do you decide on track unning order when compiling an album?

[Del Pickup]

I've finally finished mixing all the tracks and have put together a couple of cd's with different running orders to try to work out what track should go where.

Of the 12 songs I've recorded and will put on the album, 6 are acoustic based and the other 6 are electric based songs.

My first thought was to put all the acoustic songs together (like one side of a vinyl album) and the electric ones as 'side 2' but I tried that and it didn't feel right when I listened to it.

I've tried mixing the acoustic and electric songs together and again I'm not entirely happy with the way they sit together. It's not that some songs are stronger than others (if I thought any were just stocking fillers I wouldn't be using them) its just that so far the running orders I've tried don't seem to 'flow' for some reason.

So, does anyone have any logical process that you apply when compiling your album tracks? Give me some clues please!

[Tele-writer]

Key and tempo are often good factors in considering what song comes next. I usually try to get solid on the choice for the first and last tune, and then fill up the middle in various ways so that their is some sort of "musical journey."

Of course... lots of folks listen to their music on a randomly scrambled basis which can make one's efforts rather a moot point anyway

[woodman]

in the vinyl era, the formula was to have your best two songs as the last cut on each side. in the CD/iPod era, it's more like put your best tunes first to keep your listener, since competition for the listening ear is greater and attention spans are shorter. save a strong one to close with and hope your listener will get there.

otherwise, it's just like building a set for a live show — change it up, don't use the same groove twice in a row, etc. By now, you're probably so "inside" the tracks that it's hard to look at it objectively ... run it by some trusted ears and get input from the outside.

[Skully]

Key and tempo are often good factors in considering what song comes next. I usually try to get solid on the choice for the first and last tune, and then fill up the middle in various ways so that their is some sort of "musical journey."

+1.

Great albums are like great movies -- they need a great beginning, middle and end. Drama, dynamics, structure. As a rule, I think it's good to hit them with something fast and heavy upfront.

in the vinyl era, the formula was to have your best two songs as the last cut on each side. in the CD/iPod era, it's more like put your best tunes first to keep your listener, since competition for the listening ear is greater and attention spans are shorter. save a strong one to close with and hope your listener will get there.

+1.

For better or for worse, albums becoming less and less important these days. It's more about the individual song. So if you're interested in capturing the attention of club owners, booking agents or "the industry" at large, I'd put all your best stuff up front, whatever that might be, as Woodman suggests.

[Larry F]

I also agree on the best first. Here is something I have learned from classical music concerts and recitals: the piece that is the loudest, longest, and uses the most musicians usually goes last. Notice that I didn't say best. For the middle pieces, I would try to zero in on an aspect of each piece that has the potential to become annoying, either through boredom or chord or melodic pattern. Then try to avoid having two pieces in a row that have the same type of annoying or tiring character. Also, no two minor pieces in a row, and, as has been said, kept pieces with the same kind of groove and key apart. Every track should make a unique impression.

[Martin R]

For what it's worth...We chose a lot of "commercial" sounding pieces for this CD, but put a somewhat unique song first. Just hoping to separate from the pack.

Then pretty much what everyone else has said, no similar songs together, no minor keys back to back, etc. We did decide to end with an uptempo, fun song to leave a good taste.

IMHO, the only one that really matters is cut 1. It's the first impression of the album.

Martin
___________________________
E. Christina Herr & Wild Frontier

[Old Cane]

Well, you might also consider doing them as 2 "ep's" that are 6 and 6. Just a thought. I'm not good at ordering either.

[mudbean]

Originally Posted by Martin R

For what it's worth...We chose a lot of "commercial" sounding pieces for this CD, but put a somewhat unique song first.

Hey, Martin, how did you guys record & mix this material?

mud

[eddiewagner]

this is a really good question and i have nothing to answer. besides, maybe it´s a good idea to put the best stuff first. people have such a short attention-span. eddie

[Donnie55]

Sounds to me like you have two CD`s half done. Keep recording put out one of each. A lot of this depends on how you intend to sell your music. Major distribution deals are all most a thing of the past, unless you have major label backing. So that leaves online sells. Online you can have clips of the songs. In most cases people will listen and buy one or two songs to download to their ipod. So then ya gotta think how much does the order matter. But typically I would start with my strongest tune and work from there . Save something for the middle and the last song. Use the weaker stuff for filler . Hopefully you wont have a lot of filler tunes.

[Martin R]

Originally Posted by mudbean

Hey, Martin, how did you guys record & mix this material?

mud

Recorded at Taylor Ranch Studios in Albuquerque, New Mexico...(actually our converted bedroom at home.)

Joe Meeks condenser for vocals and acoustic guitars, SM57 for the electric, (Tele through a '65 Deluxe).

Drums were a mish-mash of mics and locations...still don't know how to mic drums.

Everything recorded and edited with GarageBand on a Mac Mini.

What do you like, and more importantly, what don't you like?

Martin
__________________________
E. Christina Herr & Wild Frontier

[Tim Bowen]

As for harmoniously combining 'acoustic' and 'electric' tracks within the space of a release, the pacing of Led Zeppelin III is a always a good reference.

Many folks balk at pacing tunes back-to-back on a release that are in the same key. I'm probably more sensitive as to tempo, groove, and song content. Back-to-back tunes in the same key can be a really cool segue if everything else about the songs are different.

Keep in mind that "strongest song" will vary from listener to listener. Even in the era of the digital medium, I'm still a firm believer that a full length release should contain a 'side one' and a 'side two'.

[Dirty Steve]

Foo Fighters put out a double album (In Your Honor) a couple years back which was electric rock on disc one and acoustic on disc two. Maybe that format would work for you -- kind of a double EP?

[mrmorrison]

I like my stuff to start and end with a bang so that it leaves my fans happy and energized.

[backalleyblues]

All of the above are good suggestions. Another one:

Toss some decent mixes into iTunes (especially since you have a Mac) and play with the order, but only playing the first 10 seconds or so of each song (then to the next, etc.) This will make the textures of the songs more obvious, and you can nail the "flow" a lot better...

Getting ready to do the same thing, and did this for the last album. Worked pretty well... the record went cardboard!!!

Franc Robert

[Alamo]

Some important keywords have been mentioned by the OP, Imho.

"...it didn't feel right when I listened to it. " and ... "don't seem to 'flow' for some reason".

For me, an album should be able to flow in continuous play, first to last - nevermind the possibilities of ipod shuffle, strongest, loudest or sorting by alphabetical order of the songs.
if the strongest song is #3 - well then the listener will dl #3. when I download or buy the whole albulm though, I'd like to hear how the artist intended the listening session.
should be a round thing - but maybe thats just me.

Originally Posted by woodman

in the vinyl era, the formula was to have your best two songs as the last cut on each side.

that's not what I've experienced.
on most of my vinyls the strongest or lets say the hit, was track #2 - for reasons.

track #1 would be most vulnerable to scratches & damage - the last track could not be the loudest cut as the bass response gets limited nearer the end of the grove.