Fixin' to pull the trigger on an H2

[woodman]

after all the good stuff i've been hearing around here about the Zoom units, i've decided to defy the budget wolf and spring for one of these handy-dandy devices ... got the blessing from the mama today, so it's practically a done deal.

the occasion that triggered her blessing is a reunion of sorts up on the Mountain, at my old pal Iron John's place ... some of you may remember him from my thread on building the Rainbow Tele — he's the guy who crafted the body from Ron Kirn templates. we're also old musical partners from the '70s and '80s with a treasure trove of country duets. also on board is my current bassman/harmony singer for the Stragglers, Tom. plus, it helped my cause (splurging for the H2) that the Lady Woodman, a/k/a the Songbird, has musical ties with everyone involved and will be doing her share of numbers too.

so: i've been thru the manual online, and it looks like the learning curve is pretty typical for this sort of gadget. what i need to know from you experienced users is, reckon i can get a good enough handle on it between Friday and Sunday to not ruin the mood by fumbling around with the machine when everybody's restless to pick?

since we're gonna be howling at the moon Sunday and Monday nights, i would probably be recording at 44.1/128 to get the max time out of 1.5GB of SD space. (the H2 comes with 512MB and Sweetwater has a deal going where you can get a free 1GB card and carrying case if you buy now.) is it realistic to think i could set up all the parameters ahead of time, set the dang thing at a strategic point on the table, and hit Record? the idea would be to just let it run during all the between-songs blather so it becomes non-intrusive as possible, then edit it down later. what are your thoughts, H2 users?

[wcap]

I'm not a Zoom user, so I have no business replying to this thread really, but....

Will 1.5 GB really be enough for two evenings of music? I guess you have probably done the math and have figured this out (and maybe I am overestimating the needs - I do a lot of photography, and I can fill a card really fast, but maybe these sound files don't use up your storage quite as fast as I'm fearing).

Still, it is a real bummer to run out of storage space prematurely!

[still_fiddlin]

I have a 4GB card on mine. The default format is lossless (.wav) and I'd estimate less than 3 hours on 1.5GB. (500-700MB / hour)

I haven't tried the MP3 format on the H2, as I do the conversion on the PC so I can pick the quality, but with variable bit rate (V 1), it's about 6:1 compression, give or take, depending on what I'm recording. Higher than that on single instrument stuff. So, you might get 8 hours or more MP3, but I'd take a bigger SD card and a notebook to offload to, just in case.

[mojotele65]

A 4GB is plenty big. I use the MP3 format at the highest setting, 272 or something. it sounds good, and gives you plenty of space. I can record a 4 hour gig (remember to turn off during breaks) and still have plenty of space left. I think right now I have 2 shows and one practice on mine.

[Old Cane]

The H2 records on Secure Digital (SD) media and a 512MB SD card is included. With a 4GB SD memory card, the H2 provides up to 2 hours recording at 96kHz, 6 hours at 44.1kHz, or up to a staggering 138 hours in MP3.

Looks like recording mp3s will get you a ton of time with 1.5 mem. Let us know how it works for you. I've been thinking about one of these things instead of an ipod (which I don't have either) so I can play wav mixes while I'm driving. I have no CD player in the car and hate wasting disks doing test mixes. Being able to record with it would be a bonus.

[pistolsteve]

Originally Posted by woodman

so: i've been thru the manual online, and it looks like the learning curve is pretty typical for this sort of gadget. what i need to know from you experienced users is, reckon i can get a good enough handle on it between Friday and Sunday to not ruin the mood by fumbling around with the machine when everybody's restless to pick?

I'd liken the H2 to a nice digital camera. With a nice digital camera, you can spend a lot of time figuring out how to fine-tune settings and get fantastic, near studio quality photos. Or, you can set it to "auto," hit the shutter button and get really good photos.

The H2 is maybe a little more involved than that, but you can pretty well start recording within a half-hour of taking it out of the box, and get really good quality.

The main things you'll need to get a handle on are the mic configurations --- mainly which way to point the thing depending on how wide an area you want to record.

It can be a really easy device to use right out of the box. Then, the more you've used it and spent time with it, the more you'll realize it can do.

[FirstBassman]

Originally Posted by woodman

so: i've been thru the manual online, and it looks like the learning curve is pretty typical for this sort of gadget. what i need to know from you experienced users is, reckon i can get a good enough handle on it between Friday and Sunday to not ruin the mood by fumbling around with the machine when everybody's restless to pick?

Woody, please believe me - I am the dumbest guy in the world when it comes to understanding any of these type of devices.

But even I picked up on how to use the H2.

Don't let the large manual scare you off. It's like my digital camera. The User Guide is about 200 pages But if you wanna take a picture, all you need to do is to turn it on and push the button.

Same thing with the H2. Keep it simple at first.

1. Place the H2 somewhere not directly in front of an amp or a speaker.
2. Power it with the included transformer (not batteries).
3. Turn it on with the little slide switch on the side.
4. Press the Record button.
5. Start playing and look at the volume meter.
6. If you're not bleeding over the edge you're good!
7. Press the Record button again and you're recording.

THAT'S IT.

Each time you record and stop a new file will be created in FOLDER1.
When you get home, copy the mp3 files to your computer.

THE END.

Next time you can tweak the settings a little bit but the above should get you going for now.

Hope that helps. - Mark

[woodman]

thanx for the encouragement, guys ... now for the rest of the story:

this morning, it dawned on me that since my band (the Stragglers) are playing Charlotte's biggest public festival of the year Thursday night, outdoors in a very cool park with a bandshell, a recording of the band in that setting would be invaluable — either for keeper live demo tracks, or butt-kicking fodder for the rehearsal room. so, hat in hand, i beseeched my CFO, the Lady Woodman, for forbearance ... she handles the purse strings for Woodshed Global HQ, otherwise my refrigerator would hold only a chunk of moldy cheese but my studio would be A+.

anywaze, she encouraged me to order it today, second-day delivery ... so it should be here Thursday in time for da big gig. that means i'll have two or three hours to get the hang of it. she's offered to be the sound engineer, so i'll hafta impart a working knowledge to her before the confusion starts, and given her area of technical expertise, this should consist of getting it ready to rumble and showing her how to push Record.

so my questions are these:

* big stage, pro sound, outdoors ... how far back should we place it to get the optimum sound?

* should the input be set on Low for a situation like this? (i won't be out there to check the input levels and so forth.)

all advice graciously appreciated!

[FirstBassman]

Hey Woody. I'm surprised no one has responded yet.

IMHO: If it's oudoors, as long as the device is not in a close direct line to the PA speakers, I think you should be ok.

Here is an idea: try out the levels with one of the bands before yours. If it comes out distorted, then yeah, lower the side slider switch.


In case you're interested, this guy has posted a couple of recordings he's made with the H2:


http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/sh...gonew=1#UNREAD



http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/sh...gonew=1#UNREAD

[allen st. john]

Enjoy
I got an Olympus LS-10 which is a great piece also. I would definitely try to bring an additional card. You probably don't want to mess with off-loading right now.

FWIW, make sure you practice the "record" button. Don't know about the Zoom, but on the Olympus, pressing record once puts it into 'record mode' and makes the LED blink.
Only by pushing the button a second time does it actually begin recording.

So Zoom users, on Woodman's behalf, are there any little "tricks" like this to the Zoom H-2.

Good Luck, Woodman and have a great time.

[weakendwarrior]

This little gizmo could not be easier to use AND get good results. For a band setting you'll likely want to set the three-position gain switch to LOW (L). The HIGH gain setting is used for recording ambient nature sounds and is generally too much for musical applications. Low key acoustic stuff might work better with MEDIUM gain.

A word of caution....the "level meters" are post-microphone pre-amp so adjusting this will NOT help you avoid microphone clipping...most users just say to leave them set at the default "100".

If you are overloading the mic pre-amps at the LOW gain setting you either have to move the unit farther from the source or play more softly! Adjusting the levels WILL NOT help!

I agree with those who suggest a 4GB card....this will allow you to record about four hours of .wav files at 24/44.1.

In short....for a moderately loud combo:

1)Set the unit on a mic stand about thirty feet back,
2)Set the gain to LOW
3)Choose the settings for recording (I think it defaults to 16/44.1 wav files).
4)Press the record button TWICE. The first press is for setting the levels...not terribly useful as noted above. The second press starts recording. If you clip...the red light will flicker. The red light blinks after the first press of record and turns solid when actually recording. I hate to belabour this but I've heard of people "recording" the entire first set in "Standby".

And to answer you're first question....if you can use a computer well enough to post here, you can get a very listenable recording ten minutes after you open the package.

You're going to love this thing!

[woodman]

Originally Posted by weakendwarrior

I hate to belabour this but I've heard of people "recording" the entire first set in "Standby".

HAHAHA! if that happened after all these machinations, i would throw myself on my sword! i'll definitely do a test run with the opening act per FB's suggestion, although they're a string band and probably won't pack the same punch as the Strags. nonetheless, i'll find a way to git-r-dun and give a full report!

[FirstBassman]

Originally Posted by allen st. john

FWIW, make sure you practice the "record" button. ... pressing record once puts it into 'record mode' and makes the LED blink.
Only by pushing the button a second time does it actually begin recording.

So Zoom users, on Woodman's behalf, are there any little "tricks" like this to the Zoom H-2.

Yes.

Just what I wrote above:

• Press the Record button.
• Start playing and look at the volume meter.
• If you're not bleeding over the edge you're good!
• Press the Record button again and you're recording.

[woodman]

well, it arrived in good shape an hour ago, and it took all of 20 minutes to load the card, get my settings in place and do a test recording. as all have stated — simplicity itself!

looks like the 1GB card will have just enough space for our entire 90-minute set at WAV 44.1/16. yay! now i'm off to see the wizard.

[T Prior]

Woody, good purchase, I set one of these up with NO previous experience ( with this unit) for a friend who was playing a Jazz set at the St Louis Steel Guitar Convention. Real easy.

I record every show we play with one of my units, but I record in the MP3 mode for shear file size and file handling.

A typical 40 or 45 min set comes up to about 40 meg in MP3 128. if you are recording a 90 minute set in wave 16 bit you will indeed have a file size just under 1 gig. That's a one BIG file to work with ! Just be aware....



have fun

t

[woodman]

Everyone was right: recording with the H2 is easy as falling off a log! with the technophobic Lady Woodman at the helm, my display tells me 91 minutes were recorded — our set went a minute over! so i had a few beers with my bandmates after the show but couldn't wait to get home and start choppin' these tracks ... [she was very conscientious about stopping it when we shot the breeze between songs (at least three or four times) so's not to end up with one 1GB file.]

so with high hopes, i hook up the USB and enact the ritual described on p.71 of the manual ... i get a Please Wait screen on the H2 for an infinite time, nothing happens on the computer screen. i restart with the USB connected and repeat the sequence — no dice, Please Wait. i restart with the USB disconnected, plug it in and repeat the sequence — more Please Wait.

does this sound like a firmware/software problem? the poor little pea-brained thing doesn't know enough to tell me so, bless its heart, but i'm pretty sure i'm doing things right and the machines have a personality conflict. the included loose-leaf Version History sheet says "USB card reader function supports to Mac OS X v10.5" (9/07). i'm running 10.5.6 ... i'm wondering if that could be the snag. ...

But Wait, There's More! even though it's 1:30 in the morning, i'm gonna figger out how to do playback mode and listen to it through the graciously included earbuds.

**********time passes**********

uhhh, the earbud thing pretty much sucks. hooked it up to the studio monitors and that works better ... unfortunately it's a rather deplorable mix. i've heard better mixes off the board in beer bars. nonetheless, i'm hearing some things i like.

********more time passes********

well, by mid-set, the sound man has something resembling a mix ... however, it's evident the mixer is in love with under-100Hz freqs, but without subs! as soon as i can get it in a DAW and roll off the low end, it might be decipherable.

[OT: how many of you have tried to explain to a sound man (without success) that the lead guitar needs to *float*???]

all gripes, groans and whines aside, i gotta give the H2 two thumbs up! it mercilessly captured what was going on, and a total rookie can operate it successfully. as soon as i can get the USB connection working to where i can edit this mess, i might post an agonizing example or two.

[T Prior]

Woody, another thing I learn't the hard way and forgot to mention above , yank the SD card and plug it directly into the PC slot.( hopefully you have one ) I never use the USB connection for any of the toys.

Another thing I leanr't is that the sound quality improved dramatically by using a small outboard Stereo mic. I don't believe these things are intended for Recording > CD > sales distribution but rather a tool for the " moment" . For $200, how good do we want the unit and the mic quality to be ?

Although after much experimentation with mic placements, I have come up with some ok overall live band tracks where they are used for demo purposes.

The mic I use is a Sony ECM- MS907 with a 90 degree and 120 degree pattern.


t

[FirstBassman]

Woody,

Sorry you're having trouble connecting the USB.
But since you're a MAC guy I can offer no help there.
I've never had any trouble connecting to my Dell Windows PC.

Originally Posted by T Prior

yank the SD card and plug it directly into the PC slot.( hopefully you have one ) I never use the USB connection for any of the toys.

Interesting, I've always believed the opposite.
I've always felt that each movement in and out of the card was just another chance for it to get scratched, lost or damaged.
I never take my SD cards out of their devices.

Originally Posted by T Prior

I don't believe these things are intended for Recording > CD > sales distribution but rather a tool for the " moment" . For $200, how good do we want the unit and the mic quality to be ?

Yes, exactly.
I hope that's clear to everyone.
This is a great tool ... for recording song ideas ... for recording lessons ... recording your child's piano recital, etc.
It's a tiny high quality portable recorder.

[pistolsteve]

Woodman,

See the note at the bottom of this page:

http://www.samsontech.com/products/p...fm?prodid=1916

"Please note: The Zoom H2 will not mount as a USB Drive on MAC OS X 10.5.0 Leopard unless you update to H2 Firmware version 1.2 or higher."

However, also see this discussion:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbt...te_id/1#import


The gist of that discussion seems to be that you need to update the firmware of the H2 to get it to work on OS 10.5 -- however, since your mac won't recognize the H2, how are you supposed to update the firmware? Seems to be a tricky catch-22.

Hope you get it figured out. I've never actually hooked my H2 up to my Mac, but when I do, I'm undoubtedly going to run into the same problem.

Do you happen to have another computer? A PC or a Mac running an older OS?

[woodman]

my bassman bought my old G4 running Tiger, so i'll take it over to his house and see if i can do the hoodoo. failing that, i'll buy a card reader (didn't even know about them til just now!). it's always sumpn!

[getbent]

you can get cool little card reader for about 7.00

I've seen them for under a buck at frys and amazon... they are nice to have.

[refin]

My H2 has proved to be invaluable-----great tool.
For band stuff,I usually put the compression level on concert and put the record level on lowest setting (1 of 3).I also normally use the front mics only.

[T Prior]

Originally Posted by FirstBassman

]Interesting, I've always believed the opposite.
I've always felt that each movement in and out of the card was just another chance for it to get scratched, lost or damaged.
I never take my SD cards out of their devices.[/color]

Ha ! I mostly remove the SD cards from all music devices and Camera's and have for years ! I was never into that extra connection thing ! Never had any issues.

I did however recently format a 2 GIG San Disk card which was in actually a 1 gig card but marked 2 gig !