Drum placement and perspective in the stereo spectrum

[Joel Terry]

Just curious about a couple of things regarding your recordings:

1. Do you pan drums tight or wide across the stereo spectrum?

2. Do you mix your drums in the stereo spectrum from the drummer's/band's perspective (right-handed kit set up, with hi-hat and higher toms slightly to the left of center) or from an "audience" perspective (hi-hat and higher toms slightly to the right of center)?

For 1, it seems to me that the mixing of drums across the stereo spectrum is widely variable. Of the countless "stereophonic" albums I've listened to through the years--not counting those where the drums are panned hard to the right or left, à la many rock/pop recording of the mid- to late 1960s, of course--I've noticed everything from an extremely tight, almost "mono" mix of the drums to the drums having the widest stereo "spread" in the mix. (I suppose it depends on the taste of the producer and/or engineer and/or producer-engineer.)

As for 2, it seems to me that the drums are almost always mixed from the drummer's/band's perspective. (I wonder why that is? I always mix from the audience's perspective.)

Thanks in advance,
Joel

[woodman]

1. i like the toms spread about midway between center and left/right ... i hear a lot of tunes with 'em spread hard left/right and that sounds kind of unnatural to me, though it makes for a big soundstage.

2. i've noticed that most mixes are from the drummer's perspective, too, and it seems a bit odd ... i usually go for an audience perspective. that said, probably 99% of the audience isn't even aware of any distinction!

not that it has anything to do with this thread, but i've often wished recording software offered a visual display of the panning soundstage, where you could see the entire field of your instrument placements at a glance. (maybe some programs do, but the ones i use don't.)

[Tim Armstrong]

My own personal preference in my mixes is to hear the drums like I was sitting on the drum throne. Which is kinda weird, as I'm not a drummer and never actually HEAR them that way in real life!

Anyway, I go for a relatively natural panning, nothing too extreme...

Tim

[Skully]

2. i've noticed that most mixes are from the drummer's perspective, too, and it seems a bit odd ... i usually go for an audience perspective. that said, probably 99% of the audience isn't even aware of any distinction!

My perception was that drums are usually mixed from the audience's perspective. On my recordings, I do it from the drummer's perspective, 'cause I'm the drummer.

I once heard that the Brits tend to mix the drums from the drummer's perspective, while the American do it from the audience's POV. I have no idea if there's any validity to this.

[Old Cane]

To me if the drummer is good and the recording is passable I don't care. When I mix I pan as I see them with only the OHs panned hard to each side. I don't center kick and snare. Or if I do, I move the bottom snare and subkick just a hair as if I was looking at the drums. Toms are panned (digital) T1-R20, T2-L10, Floor-L40, HH-R25 or so.

But I think it really, really depends on your entire mix. If the guitars and vocals are dripping wet and you've got this little tight, narrow drum set mixed in there......yuck. Same if you've got a big wide huge fat drum mix with the guy playing brushes on a semi-bluegrass type thing. Everybody sounds like they are huddled around one mic and the drummer (who really shouldn't even be on a bluegrass record) sounds like he's playing alone in a catherdral with a dozen close mics, compressed and spread.

The Nora Jones stuff I've heard is WIDE. Doing it that way seems to work for her very well. The piano is wide, the drums are wide, the guitars are panned and she has that little tiny voice with lots of room right in the middle. Diana Krall on the other hand sounds likeit's a straight on mix, trying to get you to feel like you're in the room with 800 other close friends and all have good seats. Nothing is spread too much but everything seems to be where it belongs.

[mudbean]

I mix as if I am sitting in the audience in front of the band. Right in front of the band, like practically on stage, but not quite.

Because, when I listen to a record, that's where I like to imagine myself. In the front row.

mud

[Del Pickup]

I think that any soundstage that you set up should be oriented from the audience's perspective. As Mudbean says, when I'm listening to a record the band is playing on the stage in front of me.

Therefore the drums should tend to be around the centre, bass slightly to the right of that; electric guitars/keyboards/mandolins/set towards the left/right extremities of the stage; acoustic or rhythm guitar towards the centre and the lead vocal sitting in front centre position. Backing vocals can be panned left/right to suit.

That feels most natural to me for the typical 4/5 piece band set up.

[tboy]

I orient from the audience position also. Not too wide, That sounds phony to me. 9 and 3 o'clock max. Mics in X-Y position (Two cardioid mics placed facing each other at 90 degrees) over the snare usually, or just slightly forward.

[brewwagon]

from the front perpective (bass drum low mic )centered in the back (mix) with good separation between the high hat thru the floor tom -around crash to ride (mic above drummers right)

everything kinda muffled down with the drummer showing excellent control

things like pillows and weight in the bass drum dampening
sometimes playing behind isolation or acoustic panels

charlie watts is a good example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzpkMw9oB4o

bw

[tboy]

Originally Posted by woodman

2. i've noticed that most mixes are from the drummer's perspective, too, and it seems a bit odd ... i usually go for an audience perspective. that said, probably 99% of the audience isn't even aware of any distinction!

That's a fact. 99% (or more) couldn't care less. And, what if the drummer is left handed? Is low tom panned right correct from audience POV?

[brewwagon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFkM...eature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJRyY...eature=related


bw


quote tboy
"And, what if the drummer is left handed? "

yeah if the drummers a lefty and plays his kit that way you could

for those 1% of the fans that care

i think most proficient drummers want to be ambidextrous or work in that direction


some of the most enjoyable things about music is stereo and listening with headphones

[tboy]

Just a thought to pass along. I've gotten some pretty good stereo drum results with 4 mics. A single overhead, a snare, kick and a mic on the low tom. Low tom mic, backed off about 10"(omni pattern is good, but not necessary). kick and snr in the middle, OH panned about 3 o'clock, tom about 9. Sounds solid in a mix; fast and easy.

I'm a fan of "the fewer mics the better."

[refin]

I think of all those great Beatles recordings done with one overhead and maybe a kick drum mic.Still stands up to me.
Overly panned drums are too unnatural to me.

[Tele-writer]

Simple ol' me likes whatever serves the song, no matter how kerwhackity they need to be spread (or not!)

Some tunes seem to [i]need[i] mono only!

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by refin

I think of all those great Beatles recordings done with one overhead and maybe a kick drum mic.Still stands up to me.
Overly panned drums are too unnatural to me.

Yep. The Johns technique is great too. 4 mics with the overheads panned 10 and 2. Snare and kick in the center. You have to have a drummer that can play too.

[popthree]

i'm not detail oriented enough to worry about it for my little demo trinkets.... but i always liked the sound of FleetWood Mac's recorded drum sound experience.

[Old Cane]

"i think most proficient drummers want to be ambidextrous or work in that direction"

Why?