Simple home recording

[Nash]

I'm looking to get a simple, quality recording set up for my computer so I can start to put my ideas down on paper so to speak.

I can get a direct computer interface like an M-Audio Firewire Solo. This appeals to me because of the different effects and models you get. The only thing I fear is that I wont like what I get here tonally when compared to using a mic and my amp.

I can also go with something like an SM57 and a decent pre so that I can just record straight from my amp which I like the idea of a lot, but I lose some versatility compared to going with the M-Audio setup or something similar and it wont sound just like my amp so the modeling might actually be better.

The other option I have been looking at is the Zoom H4n because with this I could not only record at home, but I could record my band practices seeing as we don't have any way to do that now. I feel as though this would be sacrificing something for the sake of the band however and the band is not practicing much anymore with school starting up again. It also pushes my budget a bit.

What are your experiences with these options or others and what do you suggest. Ideally I like to keep it under $300, the lower the better. Software isn't really a problem because I got some old copies of cakewalk, protools, etc. from a friend which are good enough for my needs. I also have Garage Band which works pretty nicely.

[Martin R]

Get something like Fast Track Pro and a couple of mics. It has two XLR/Quarter-inch inputs and works with Garageband and probably everything else. Direct to digital recording.

Martin
E. Christina Herr & Wild Frontier

[sax4blues]

Every time I hear simple my preference is to choose the turn on and record unit over computer set up. Not very popular option on this site but with your intention of just putting down ideas I think you will be up and running faster with stand alone. Also the portability issue may be right in your own home. My computer is in the living room, and in my case used by several people. My music is in the garage, so if I want to use my computer I have to either move it or move my music. Lastly, I believe many of the standalone units will interface with the computer to download your file so you are still able to mix on your computer.

[woodman]

a lot of folks like the Zoom units; they have both advantages and disadvantages. but if your Mac is in your music space, something like the M-Audio Firewire Solo into Garageband will take you further down the recording road. you'd be up and running in no time, and GB is easy to get the hang of.

[TelZilla]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

Every time I hear simple my preference is to choose the turn on and record unit over computer set up. Not very popular option on this site but with your intention of just putting down ideas I think you will be up and running faster with stand alone. Also the portability issue may be right in your own home. My computer is in the living room, and in my case used by several people. My music is in the garage, so if I want to use my computer I have to either move it or move my music. Lastly, I believe many of the standalone units will interface with the computer to download your file so you are still able to mix on your computer.

My only issue with that approach (and the reason I ultimately chose Reaper and a Line 6 toneport) is scalability and expandability.

I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that a simple PC based solution could be expanded to a higher-quality deal more easily than a stand-alone thing.

[Nash]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I guess I should mention my computer space and my music space are the same room.

[flatout9]

Band in the Box has been overwhelming for me. Anybody have some ideas on how to digest it.

[cwcowell]

I've had good luck with the following.

for practice: guitar -> Line 6 TonePort GX -> Line 6 PodFarm on Mac/PC

for recording: guitar -> Line 6 TonePort GX -> Reaper on Mac/PC with Line 6 PodFarm plugin

There are lots of great solutions out there, but I've found this combo to be cheap, effective, and super versatile.

[Nash]

Well then, so far it looks like I've got suggestions for each option as I expected, but none are clearly standing out. Right now I'm looking at getting a usb or firewire interface with at least one XLR input because it gives me modeling as well as a mic input if I decide to go down that road at a later date.

Thanks so far and keep the opinions coming.

[mgdesigns]

BOSS BR1200CD - I've got the BR1180CD, and I've had great fun with it. The 1200 is the more recent version, and the 1600 allows for (8 XLR's) a lot more simultaneous inputs, and the effects direct are astounding. I do a lot of (all of) my practicing with it as a standalone backup band. ecord a rhythm guitar on one track, then bass on another (simulated or real), lead 1 on another, lead 2 on another, add a drum track, vocals, etc. Mine allows me up to 80 virtual tracks, and I've never used near that many. Great for that Kodak moment - got recordings of my 87 year old dad playing sax, clarinet, harmonies of each, and him singing, then me on guitar, bass, and a drum track. Also did a live recording of 30 minutes of my bass player friend and my dad with friend's wife singing the old classic big band stuff, and me playing horribly (quietly) in the background. Best $1000 I've ever spent on music gear. You can find them on Ebay now for about $600, well worth it.

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/BR-1180CD/
http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/e...n_2/index.html

[beep.click]

Nash, do you have any friends with recording setups you can check out?

I say that because you sound real interested in the modelling aspect of computer recording, and modelling can be really cool or really sucky, depending on a lot of factors.

[StuH]

I'm going to stay out of this one because a year or two ago, sax4blues was looking for a simple recording alternative and I think I recomended for him to go the computer route with Sonar Home Studio. I'm not necessarily sure his experience with it was smooth judging from his post.

I started out on a small 8 track porty, but found the menu diving and small screen didn't provide a good visual approach to learn from. I like things to be neatly arranged, in front of me in full view so I went the computer software route. It was more in tune with the way I learn. Touch an icon here, move a virtual fader here, adjust the threshold on a compressor and low and behold visually you can see things move. It took me 8 months to get a good handle on the porty. It took me about 4 days to get similar result from a computer.

Anyway there is a lesson in that. What is simple for one person might not be simple for another person. I also think your expectations of polished sound quality, ability to handle latest fx and modellers in case you want to try them up the road, is alot different than a simple scratch pad to get some musical ideas down on paper. It sounds like you want something feature rich to me. If it is feature rich, it isn't going to be simple.

[Nash]

The reason I like modeling is because if it works well you get many amps and effects for messing around with which I like because I'm a tinkerer and can never leave well enough alone. Unfortunately I only know one guy that actually records(the one that gave me some of his old copies of recording software) and his recording setup is far out of my price range for it to influence me in any way.

Simple was probably poor word choice, I guess affordable and easy to use better fits what I'm looking for. Simple in this case means something that I don't have to spend half an hour setting up. Basically I want to be able to record quickly, but then should I feel like it I would be able to tinker with effects and things. Maybe versatile is the word I'm looking for.

[StuH]

Originally Posted by Nash

I guess affordable and easy to use better fits what I'm looking for. Simple in this case means something that I don't have to spend half an hour setting up. Basically I want to be able to record quickly, but then should I feel like it I would be able to tinker with effects and things. Maybe versatile is the word I'm looking for.

Pretty well all of the major players have some type of software edition geared toward money wise bedroom studio users. They would all cover and handle very similar basic functions. It's a competitve market and there is not a whole hell of alot seperating one brand from another anymore.

One huge suprise that happened the last couple of years has been the release of Reaper. Reaper came out of nowhere a couple of years ago and took the audiophile community by storm. Easily as capable as any of the big brand names out there at a fraction of the cost. Might not include the best plugin fx and virtual instruments like a full blown Sonar Producer 8 would but you can add these later when you can afford them. It is just as capable and very very inexpensive.

It's almost like buying a car really. You have to test drive. They all might get you from A to B at the same time on the same amount of gas, but you might like one better because the cup holder is outlined with a chrome strip and has a leather over the steering wheel.

Stay with the big names, Reaper being an exception to the rule. (Sonar, Cubase, Protools, Ableton and Logic if you have a Mac)


PS....Like Woodman says, I've heard alot say Garage Band was very intuitive. Some nice compositions done with it but these guys always seem to out grow it and move on to something bigger.

[T Prior]

simple or fast and easy with a low budget ?

I think the world is still waiting on that..

Purpose and budget are everything here.

I hear " record band practice " and record at home...
two totally different and opposite tasks.

If "record the band" is even remotely a thought then portable is the only way to do this and then apply that unit to your home recording tasks.

The H4 is not the right tool, although it is a 4 track by default it does not come loaded up with stuff like the Micro BR does. The Micro BR is small, goofy to use, but once the very tiny buttons are understood it gets very easy, and with it's ability to master or create MP3's/Wave along with the USB this make for a very easy simple and fast recording life.The unit is loaded with features , functionality and effects.

I record gigs all the time with this unit , sometimes I use a stereo mic and other times I use a 4 channel mixer and use 3 or 4 mics. I do not use this at home for recording but I have fooled with the mastering tools with other stereo files and I have messed with the amp modeling. I have even used the free download drum edit programmer which Boss states is for other models, but the Micro BR functions fine with it.

For $199 I doubt you can get more for the money, certainly you can't get "smaller" !

What do I use ? Sonar on XP, PCI Interface, multiple plug ins, EZ Drummer, Drums on demand, Amplitube, various preamps, Yamaha AW2816, Boss Br-8, Edirol R-1 etc...

I think eventually as you grow into recording more stuff just happens. But I can tell you this, I would never be without a Micro BR and it's functionality cannot be beat at that price, just don't lay it down anywhere you may not be able to find it ! I think $199 is a great place to start, just spend a few minutes with the left and right menu buttons and life will get better.

t

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by Nash

Simple in this case means something that I don't have to spend half an hour setting up.

Almost any recording software you use on PC will be simple, in that sense, once you get the hang of it. You may spend half an hour setting it up the first time, and MANY hours learning to use the software/hardware... but after that, it's not a half hour, every time.

In my software, for instance (Sonar), I can make a blank template for future recordings.

Usually, though, I just open the last song I worked on, and erase what's there -- that becomes my template. SUPER fast to get going...

[Nash]

I think I've decided on an M-Audio Firewire Solo and for now I'll use Garage Band and the various recording software that was given to me. Eventually I'd like to get some thing for portable recording, but as of now it isn't a big priority. Thanks for all the suggestions, it helped me determine what I really wanted.

[mgdesigns]

Oh BTW: BOSS BR1600CD has video out capability (so you can use a computer monitor, and a mouse. It's pricey, but very cool, and Boss/Roland are reliable products for the most part. My first recorder was a Roland CDX-1, and spent 6 months of the first 2 tears in service; but my music store got behind me and work the deal for the BOSS BR1180CD, which has work for me like a dream. Wish I had enough cash at the time to spring for the 1600 though.

A friend is all about MAC, and has a Mini with a program (not GarageBand) and it's really awesome, but not a portable rig at all. But draws big righteous circles around my little BOSS.

[zinkyzenith]

I use something called a Art Tube MP Studio. It is a cheap (like $30) tube preamp. I run either a sennheiser e609 or an MXL v63m through the preamp and straight into garage band through the line in on my Mac. Simple, cheap, and it sounds surprisingly good. You won't win any Grammys with it, but I've recorded myself playing drums, bass and guitar and with a little careful mixing it really does produce good results. Recording drums is the only thing that could be better. I've never tried to record a whole band with it, so I don't know how it would fare in that situation; all I know is it's a dirt cheap setup that works a lot better than it has any right to!

[Nash]

Well I still haven't purchased anything, but now that I have some money in my pocket I'm ready although I can't help but think that there is something better than the Firewire Solo. I now know that I definitely want to go with a direct audio interface though after that I'm lost.

What interface (preferably firewire because I'm already rationing USB ports and lower latency can only help) do you recommend or use?

I would also like to know what software you think recreates the most realistic amp/effect sounds. I have some older copies of protools and a few others that were gifted to me, but something newer would be preferable.

Oh, and I have a Mac running OSX for compatibility's sake. Also, I'd like to spend roughly $200 on the interface. Software cost is mostly irrelevant because for now I'll just use garage band and the software I was given, but eventually I'd like to upgrade and getting suggestions now gives me a goal to save my money for.

[dlaroe]

Nash, I'm in the same boat as you.

I've been using Garageband and Audacity on my Mac to record some stuff both direct and mic'ed.
I wired an 1/8" stereo jack to a pair of 1/4" mono jacks "converter box" from some Radioshack parts (you can buy the same thing, I was cheap and had the parts already) and used a pair of cheap karaoke machine mics.

The results weren't great but are good enough to lay down passable backing tracks to practice with and record my kid's cello for a Christmas gift CD for the grandparents.

Bearable results can be had by creating custom "Real Instruments" in Garageband.

I guess the point is, use what you got and when you see it's limitations you'll know exactly what you need to spend money on to get the results you want.

-Dale

[woodman]

Originally Posted by Nash

What interface (preferably firewire because I'm already rationing USB ports and lower latency can only help) do you recommend or use?

the M-Audio Firewire Solo is within your budget and may suit your needs ... nuthin fancy, but it would do the job, and the footprint is tiny. i've never used one, but a lot of my buds speak highly of the M-Audio line.

[Nash]

Originally Posted by dlaroe

Nash, I'm in the same boat as you.

I've been using Garageband and Audacity on my Mac to record some stuff both direct and mic'ed.
I wired an 1/8" stereo jack to a pair of 1/4" mono jacks "converter box" from some Radioshack parts (you can buy the same thing, I was cheap and had the parts already) and used a pair of cheap karaoke machine mics.

The results weren't great but are good enough to lay down passable backing tracks to practice with and record my kid's cello for a Christmas gift CD for the grandparents.

Bearable results can be had by creating custom "Real Instruments" in Garageband.

I guess the point is, use what you got and when you see it's limitations you'll know exactly what you need to spend money on to get the results you want.

-Dale

Thanks for the suggestion, I have actually tried something similar, a 1/4" female to 1/8" male adapter I use for some headphones, and it wasn't up to par for what I want. It certainly works and doesn't sound bad, but it's not great like you said.

Originally Posted by woodman

the M-Audio Firewire Solo is within your budget and may suit your needs ... nuthin fancy, but it would do the job, and the footprint is tiny. i've never used one, but a lot of my buds speak highly of the M-Audio line.

That's what I'm thinking, it's just that the Firewire Solo appears to be too obviously right for what I want. Maybe I'm just over thinking the whole thing...