Gain stages for recording vocals- what's the rule?

[TelZilla]

I'm recording vocals through a line 6 toneport into Reaper.

The actual "box" for the toneport has a mic level knob (the one on the left).



The toneport software has some preamp models that I've been using which have a gain knob and an overall volume knob as well.

Then there's the track volume in reaper of course.

So what's the rule of thumb with gain at each stage? It seems like I've heard that at each stage I should use as much gain as possible without clipping. Does that sound right?

So that means I should crank the knob on the box, then crank the gain and volume in the software?

[StuH]

Monitor the input signal completely dry inside Reaper. (no fx at all on the track inserts) Adjust the input gain on the audio device so you are recieving an input signal between -12db and -6db. Leave this alone once done.
Leave your track fader at 0 and only use the track faders for mixing.

Insert your effect.
I'm not familiar with the tone port software but if gain in your case means input gain, the knob should be set at 0db. If the fx plugin has a meter for input gain, the meter would range between -6db and -12db and will reflect the signal before any of the fx of the plugin take effect.

The overal volume knob would represent the signal after it has been processed by the plugin. You may have to adjust this as the fx can alter volume. You would adjust this using the knob on the software itself. If the fx plugin has a good enough output meter use it to monitor the output signal and go for an output signal between -6 and -12db. If the output meter isn't good enough use track meter in Reaper to monitor.

So yes you want to use as much gain as possible right from the start without causing clipping, but you should make sure your original input signal coming from the audio interface ranges between -12 and -6 db. That gives you a level of safety, so you won't clip period and also gives you some leeway when the mix is summed to the master fader so clipping the master fader will be less likely or won't cause a huge fader correction.

[woodman]

nice rundown, Stu!

[TelZilla]

OK, thanks for the reply, but I think I have additioanal questions/clarifications

Originally Posted by StuH

Monitor the input signal completely dry inside Reaper. (no fx at all on the track inserts) Adjust the input gain on the audio device so you are recieving an input signal between -12db and -6db. Leave this alone once done.
Leave your track fader at 0 and only use the track faders for mixing.

Insert your effect.

-No FX on the input signal = no Line 6 preamp modeling, right?
-How can I tell if the input signal is between -12 and -6db? Is there something in Reaper that should show me?
-As far as the track faders, they default to a position where they can be slid up or down (they go down a lot farther than up). by leaving the track fader at 0, do you mean leave it at the default? Does the "leave it at 0" rule go for instrumental tracks too?
-When you say "effect" here, are you talking about the preamp model in the line 6 software?


Also, I guess I just have a general question about the negative db values. What is that about? If I have, say, -6db on a meter, what is the signal 6 decibels less than? My actual voice as it hits the mic? Does that mean I have 6db of "play" in the fader, if I crank it?

I have a feeling this is a fairly central concept, and I'm not fully getting it.

[woodman]

-6dB on a meter means you're 6dB below the clipping level. when your input signal is -6 to -12, your meter wouldn't be going much further than 2/3 to 3/4 of the way to the top.

the "leave it at 0" rule applies to all tracks — you want to control your level via the other gain stages. 0 is generally the default setting for your software, and that's the level it likes to see.

sorry, can't help ya on the Line 6 questions.

[StuH]

-No FX on the input signal = no Line 6 preamp modeling, right?

yes

-How can I tell if the input signal is between -12 and -6db? Is there something in Reaper that should show me?

Not familiar with Reaper but I'm pretty sure there is a view which will show a virtual mix desk. If you have a four track audio project, you would have 4 corresponding input bus' all with their own meter and a master bus where the summed up audio of all 4 tracks gets routed to and passes to your speakers. If your audio is routed to go to track 1, you would monitor the meter for track 1. The meter should be graduated like a ruler with numbers. As you play/sing you will see a colored line appear in that meter representing the input level of your voice as it hits the track bus. You would adjust the input gain on your audio device so that colored line sits between -6bd and -12db when you sing at a normal level or play your instrument at a normal level. If you had an effect on while you were doing this, the meter would reflect the signal after it was processed by the effect. That is why you should make sure you have no effect on when you are adjusting the level of the audio device.

-As far as the track faders, they default to a position where they can be slid up or down (they go down a lot farther than up). by leaving the track fader at 0, do you mean leave it at the default?

That is normal, usually these are defaulted to be set at 0db but you should check by looking at the meter mentioned above.

Does the "leave it at 0" rule go for instrumental tracks too?

Yes

-When you say "effect" here, are you talking about the preamp model in the line 6 software?

yes

Also, I guess I just have a general question about the negative db values. What is that about?
It's totally different than
If I have, say, -6db on a meter, what is the signal 6 decibels less than? My actual voice as it hits the mic? Does that mean I have 6db of "play" in the fader, if I crank it?
I have a feeling this is a fairly central concept, and I'm not fully getting it.

It is alot different than hearing a car go by and saying that car was really loud, it must have been at least 90 decibels. It's more a measure of power as it relates to audio output and is measured in RMS power, Peak power, or a hybrid of both. If you want more detail here is a link.

http://www.aqdi.com/rms.htm

[StuH]

I think I should clarify some thing myself. When I said setting at -6db to -12db gives you a safety so it won't clip period is not necessarily true. You make the initial adjustment based on normal singing levels, normal instrument playing levels. There are going to be times when your voice will spike or you get really agressive with the instrument. In those cases you might need to use mixing tools like a compressors to tone down the spiking.

Also the way to meter the input signal. I'm speaking from my own software experience. It might be possible that you have a metering option that monitors the recording input. If that is the case, advice like don't apply any effects to the track doesn't really matter.

Maybe someone using Reaper can suggest a better way of doing things. Hope I'm not adding more confusion.