Best Mic for recording vocals in loud surroundings AND live application

[nosuch]

Hi folks,

currently I am doing demos with my band in our rehearsal room. We are cutting direct to eight track with a motu 8pre, 5 people in the room, keyboard, and voice monitored from small PA-Speakers. I know it is not ideal, but this gives us a "live"-feel, so we can perform well. My AKG C 2000 B doesn't work in this situation, catches too much background noises and also feed backs, the shure sm58 I use for live applications doesn't have this problems but sounds rather dull. I used a røde condenser mic S1 (size of an SM58) from tha band that shares the rehearsal room with us. works fine but is not mine.
is there a dynamic mic that will sound as clear and can be used for live applications (w/o phantom power)? maybe the rode m1 and m2?
any experience or different suggestions?

[Tim Armstrong]

We use AKG D9000 mics live, and they're nice and bright (our previous SM58 mics sounded dull in comparison). I think they'd work well for recording vocals...

Tim

[woodman]

i recently got a Shure SM7B — it really cleared up my froggy vocals (you can understand my recorded lyrics now) and noise rejection is *superb.* they run around $350, but i got mine plus a cheapie Whirlwind mike cable for $300 from Unique Squared. best dynamic mike i've ever used, and much better than a lot of condenser mikes in the same price range.

[Astro1176]

Are you positive you have a genuine SM58 and not an ebay copy? I have been in studio sessions where 58s have been A/B with £3000+ condenser microphones and at times the 58 won out. They are certainly a well proven mic of choice for letting vocals cut through mixes in live applications, and also appear on a surprising number of rock albums as the studio vocal mic. In the studio I prefer condensers for vocals, but recently had a live studio session featuring a female singer and a male singer who sang in falsetto in certain sections. I was very pleased with the results - the vocals came through very clearly with no problems on the top end.

I would suggest checking that the mic is real, checking cables, and looking at your PA or maybe adding some top on the mixer. I agree with woodman that the SM7B is a superb mic, but most people can also get great results with a 58

[nosuch]

Astro, when I bougt that SM 58 like 20 years ago, ebay wasn't imaginable, even the internet was an unheard thing for me back then.
;-)
maybe it needs some cleaning or else tlc?

I have no problems to cut through, it's fine for live applications. I am talking about a recording and for that the rode just sounds so much more open and airy. no crappy PA speakers but genuine genelec active monitors here - very discriminating ...
maybe I should just get me one of these rødes?

[Ben Harmless]

Couple of ideas:

-Yes, absolutely clean that '58. Remove the ball and dip it in mouthwash, and then rinse it out well.

-Alternately, just remove the ball entirely. The grill was designed to protect the mic capsule. It's not entirely beneficial to the sound of the mic.

-It might also be worth trying a '57. I personally like the '57 on my voice, and use it live whenever I can.

-The Shure Beta series tends to have a little more high end response and articulation. The Beta 58 is a decent mic, and the Beta 57a is a good vocal mic as well - Sting and a bunch of other guys use 'em. The Betas also have tighter patterns than the SM series, which will help with bleed.

-If you're not liking the vocal tracks, try using a bit of subtractive EQ. If you've got a parametric or semi-parametric EQ on the vocal channel, try rolling it down and then sweeping the frequency knob to see if it cleans up a bit. I'd play in the 300-800hz area, and start by cutting about 3db - actually you can start with a much bigger cut to try and locate useful frequencies, but don't overdo the final setting to the point of it sounding weird.

-Also, if there's a high-pass filter on that channel, engage it. There's nothing in a live vocal mic that will do any good in the mix. The same goes for all the other mics in the room that aren't on things like bass or kick drums (maybe toms too). This can really help clean up a vocal track.

-Lastly, a little compression can help a vocal stand out in a mix. It can be tricky though, so unless it's obviously helping, forget it.

[Astro1176]

+1 for Ben's suggestions.

If the SM58 still isn't cutting it - and there is no mic which suits every voice - maybe you should look at large diaphragm condenser mics with less worry for isolation; if the whole thing is a live take, spill might not be a desperate issue, and it can be reduced by building the singer a booth out of boards or mattresses or at worst blankets. Also a shield like the one by SE is very effective: http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html .

[Professorbx]

Neumann KMS105 if you can spring it. Only mic I have ever used that is just as comfortable in a live as in a studio application. Really versatile.

[still_fiddlin]

Try the Beta series if you can borrow one. Our WL uses the Beta 58. I've got the Beta 57a on my guitar cabinet, but will gladly sing through it if we're practicing somewhere and need an extra vocal mike. It's a better dual purpose vocal/instrument mike than the SM57, I think, though I can't say it's better at either than the SM57 and SM58. Depends on how it fits.

[Telesavalis]

Try a Shure Beta 87. I upgraded from an SM 58 to the 87 last year and it made a huge difference in my vocal tone. Plus the 87A is designed for floor wedges so the backside has a 120 degree dead zone for great feedback rejection.

[Old Cane]

The problem isn't the mic choice......


http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...sku=270353#new


Try a Heil PR35 or I think PR20 is the other handheld type. But like others have said, if you don't like a 58 there's not much out there that's going to please you.

[mudbean]

A twenty year old 58 sound dull? What a crazy idea.

I've been quite enamored with the Electro-Voice N/D767a:



A buck-thirty from the bigbox vendors. I actually like this one more than my Beta 58 - hotter, more articulated and much more forward in the mids. It's my current stage mic of choice. IMHO, it would crank in your practice room/recording studio application.

mud

[Janitor Julius]

I just picked up the Sennheiser e935 and am totally blown away! I don't have a lot of experience with the 57's/58's except for live situations with less than perfect stage sound, but the e935 has set a new standard as far as I'm concerned. Some Shure hardcore's may think that the 58's reputation is evidence that nothing sounds better, but popularity begets popularity if you know what I mean. Do yourself a favor and give the Sennheiser a listen. You'll be glad you did.

[woodman]

i've had great luck with the Sennheiser e835 too (same price point as 57/58) ... tried it side by side with a 58 in the music store and the Senn was far better for my voice. (of course, your voice may vary!) the presence peak is a little different on those mikes, so it's really a matter of what you're looking for in your vocal sound.

[backalleyblues]

As an alternative to washing out the ball screen on a 58, just put a new one on-this tends to brighten it right up, with the added benefit of not having all that spit and crud to deal with. Beta 58s and the AT mics are nice too, just make sure you can pad them down a touch, their outputs are really hot compared to a normal 58. Haven't tried the Sennheiser, so no comments there...

Franc Robert

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by mudbean

I've been quite enamored with the Electro-Voice N/D767a:

I like that one, too... after DECADES of using a 58.

[tboy]

I've used the SM57 to very good results recording live. Much more detailed sounding than the 58.

More kudos here for the ND 767. A great mic for the money. Our band switched from 58's a few years back to those for live vocals, and never looked back. Lots of punch and high output. Nice big sound.
Never used them to record live, but tried once in the studio just to put a female vocalist in a comfort zone. Lacked depth, when compared to a decent condenser, as expected.

My money's on the 57

[nosuch]

ooh, a zombie thread came to live again?
My end of the story: I bought a rode S1 and coudn't be happier. even under less then perfect circumstances I can hear my voice better on stage and the aproximity effect is much less than with a dynamic mic. It just has so much more detail. and when I bought it they told me about a current promotion so I could choose another mic for 1 $.
I experienced that a SM 58 can also sound great when handled by a skilled engineer, but the rode seems to be a good partner for my voice without much work.