Help with EQing and mixing?

[dutchguitarist]

Hi there,

I do a lot of homerecording, but when it comes down to mixing and equalizing I always get stuck. I always got the problem that one instrument is 'pushing away' the other instrument, making the mix one big blur.

Listen to my song on my myspace for example.

Are there some frequentie region guidelines for individual instruments?
Like: kick, snare, bassguitar, guitar, vocals, organs etc?

I tried to search with the search function, but no results.

Thanx in advance.
Cheers,
Martijn

Edit: MOD? Sorry wrong subforum

[Ben Harmless]

Hmm. That's a tough one - mostly because I'm not sure what you're wanting to get that you're not getting.

I really dig "Sail." I like the breakdown and instrumental bits in there. The only thing I really want to do with it is to ride the faders a little and bring that bass into the background when other things are happening. There's no better effect that you can add to a song than smart fader movements - or volume envelopes if you're mixing in-the-box. Everything (and I mean everything) else is secondary unless something just plain sounds bad.

The vocals are a little low for traditional rock stuff, but I suspect that's intentional. I think I feel what you're going for, and I like it.

Based on your influences, the only other thing I think you might be after that I'm not hearing is that maybe the bass it supposed to be more of a sludgy floor, in which case I'd still bring it down a touch, but then maybe add some 3-4k or so to bring out a little fizz, and don't be afraid to compress the life out of it for effect. Maybe even do a really fuzzed out track, and a direct clean track so you can mix in the clean bits for definition when the bass takes a more central role.

None of this makes it any less of a good song as-is though, IMHO.

[manfesto]

Myspace always hates my computer and never loads music (it could be user error), so my advice is sight-unseen (gasp!).

Here's a few tips that I take to heart when I mix (and of course, tweak to your own tastes as you see fit).

The most important range, IMHO, is around 3k-4k. This is where instruments "cut" through the mix, really. There's a word for this point for opera singers, but I can't remember what it's called - basically, every voice has a super strong point somewhere in this range, and it's different for every person. Anyway, guitars and vocals tend to fight in the mix over this frequency - best thing to do is cut this range (with a somewhat wide Q) on the guitars when vocals are in the mix, and boost it on the guitars when the vocals are out.

I believe that the absolute lowest thing in the mix should always be the kick drum, and I always give it a bit of a hump around 50hz.

Bass guitar I think of as keeping a good "thump" sound, so I let it dominate lower frequencies (but still above the kick) around 200-400. If you go overboard, though, this frequency range can make your bass sound muddy.

Once you mix it down to two tracks (in other words, am mastering your overall mix), it's nice to add a bit of high end to give your mix "sparkle." Just don't overdo it - otherwise everything sounds like breaking glass.

[pengipete]

Avoid using EQ to boost any particular instrument or section of sound. It's far better to reduce the volume and/or EQ levels on the other areas of the overall recording to allow the required sound to cut through.

[beep.click]

What other folks said about working the faders (changing track volumes) -- very true.

A guideline I've heard a million times for bass guitar is, cut the low frequencies. Many engineers/producers have been quoted as saying, they never want the bassist to hear his part solo-ed, because he'll think it sounds tinny. But in a recording, a little bass goes a long way. And bass frequencies have a "masking" effect: they can easily sludge up everything else.

Two other things I do a lot, because I'm fanatical about hearing individual instruments:

1) Use the PAN control, and don't be timid. Throw an instrument hard left or hard right, and see if it doesn't sit differently in the mix.

2) Don't fix the MIX, fix the ARRANGEMENT. If you REALLY REALLY want an instrument to pop out, change the arrangement of the song. Cut the drums to nothing; make the organ or bass lay out. As many people have observed, it's as much what you DON'T play, as what you do play.

[pengipete]

If you are using sequenced sounds - especially the bass and drums - you need to avoid full quantize or beat accurate step recording. A slight gap between the bass drum and the bass guitar (or equivalent) will let you hear both sounds separately and reduce the mushiness. The same applies to instruments that occupy a similar range such as vocals and rythmn guitar.

Another trick to learn is not playing every instrument on every note. Sounds silly but it's very tempting when recording each track individually to give a solo performance on every track whereas thinning the whole thing out will give a lot more breathing space for the music. Again this is especially the case when using sequenced drums as it's easy to lose track of the fact that a drummer only has one pair of hands and you can easily end up with a wall of sound that will always be a pain to work with if you have too many hits on each beat.

[vjf1968]

My 2 cents. Make sure you are listening to your mix or playback at a low volume. You can usually hear where things are sitting in the mix a little clearer than at full volume. Try not to add reverb on the kick drum or bass since this could lead to "muddiness.” Sometimes it still is a good idea to listen back in mono also to check for any kind of phase cancellation. As with any kind of sound shaping devices like EQ, compression, limiting, de-essing, or gating the rule thumb is "a little goes a long way.”

Your demo is very reminiscent of the band Dugen as far as instrumentation and placement of instruments in the mix so you are well on your way for a unique sound. I like the feel of the instrumentation in the mix but the vocals are excessively low. If you can bring them up without changing the instrumental track then IMHO the track would be that much better.

Its always a learning process.

[dutchguitarist]

Wow! Only good practical responses, thanx I really appreciate it.

@Ben Harmless: True, the bass is way too loud now.
Concirning the vocals; I mixed it with headphones, as I was playing in the night.
Someone told me mixing with headphones is a big nono.

3-4k, haven't tried it yet, but i've written it down :)

@manfesto: Thanx, those where the ones I was looking for.

@pengipete: Basicly you're saying, if it doesn't sound good in the mix (regardless of volume), it wasn't good before I recorded it? I get your point. You can polish a turd, but it will still be a turd.

@beep.click: Nice comment about the arrangement, something to think about.

@pengipete: I only use drums as far sequenced sounds go, so that shouldn't be a problem.

@vjf1968: How can you tell if you've got some phase cancellation?
Never heard of Dugen. Don't you mean Dungen (i've seen them live, great band)?
Do you've got any urls?

So concluding:

-In the first place, try to adjust volumes instead of EQ-ing.
-Mix at a low volume, loud parts will stand out clearly.
-Watch out with reverb on kick and bass -> muddiness
-Never overdo effects/EQ-ing

Bass : More to the background, important range: 200-400 Hz
Vocals: 3-4k Hz (cut)
Guitar: 3-4k Hz (boost)
Kick : 50Hz (boost)

Overall mix: A little extra high for a 'sparkling' effect.

Thanx a lot guys, this should help me alot with my next musical adventure ;)

Cheers,
Martijn

[vjf1968]

Originally Posted by dutchguitarist

Wow! Only good practical responses, thanx I really appreciate it.

@Ben Harmless: True, the bass is way too loud now.
Concirning the vocals; I mixed it with headphones, as I was playing in the night.
Someone told me mixing with headphones is a big nono.

3-4k, haven't tried it yet, but i've written it down :)

@manfesto: Thanx, those where the ones I was looking for.

@pengipete: Basicly you're saying, if it doesn't sound good in the mix (regardless of volume), it wasn't good before I recorded it? I get your point. You can polish a turd, but it will still be a turd.

@beep.click: Nice comment about the arrangement, something to think about.

@pengipete: I only use drums as far sequenced sounds go, so that shouldn't be a problem.

@vjf1968: How can you tell if you've got some phase cancellation?
Never heard of Dugen. Don't you mean Dungen (i've seen them live, great band)?
Do you've got any urls?

So concluding:

-In the first place, try to adjust volumes instead of EQ-ing.
-Mix at a low volume, loud parts will stand out clearly.
-Watch out with reverb on kick and bass -> muddiness
-Never overdo effects/EQ-ing

Bass : More to the background, important range: 200-400 Hz
Vocals: 3-4k Hz (cut)
Guitar: 3-4k Hz (boost)
Kick : 50Hz (boost)

Overall mix: A little extra high for a 'sparkling' effect.

Thanx a lot guys, this should help me alot with my next musical adventure ;)

Cheers,
Martijn

I meant Dungen, sorry about that, my Spell Check ignored my orders. Here is a definiation of "phase cancellation" from Sweetwater:
Phase Cancellation
Phase describes where in its cycle a periodic waveform is at any given time. The relationship in time of two or more waveforms with the same or harmonically related periods gives us a measurement of their phase difference. Phase cancellation occurs when two signals of the same frequency are out of phase with each other resulting in a net reduction in the overall level of the combined signal. If two identical signals are 100% or 180 degrees out of phase they will completely cancel one another if combined. When similar complex signals (such as the left and right channel of a stereo music program) are combined phase cancellation will cause some frequencies to be cut, while others may end up boosted. Phase and phase difference is a real-world issue in areas such as electrical wiring of audio equipment, signal path, and microphone placement during the recording process. Phase reversal can be a serious compromise of sound quality or a special effect affecting the perceived spaciousness of the sound depending on the context of its occurrence.

I hope that helps explain it. If you want to hear a good example of using "phase canellation" as an effect get a copy of Moby Grape's first album. Their producer, David Rubinson, would record and mix backing vocals out of phase with the main vocal track. Unfortunately, when the mono version of the album was released by Columbia a lot of the backing vocals disappeared.

[StuH]

Here's an old thread with some links to bathroom literature on eq and comp.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/recording...-articles.html

[dutchguitarist]

Thank you Stuh, I've printed out the articles. Nice one.

Haven't had the time to fumble with the mix yet, hopefully this weekend.

[Chicago Slim]

I try to keep each instrument in their own register. Guitar and vocals compete for the same range.

I have found that I need to use specific microphones, for some singers. The same EQ setting, would sound completely different, with different Mic's.

With a good singer, I always fade the guitar during the vocals. Bring the guitar up for solo's, intros and outros.

[woodman]

to add onto Slim's comments, fills are another area where you can really work the mix without big EQ collisions ... the space where the vocalist isn't singing. if you have multiple melody instruments, you can pick the one with the sweetest fill, gently goose it a little during the vocal silence, then bring it back down when the singing starts again. that way, the space is shared without things conflicting.

[mudbean]

Heh heh, he said "goose it," heh heh.

mud

[octatonic]

The advice I was told when it came to eq is as follows:

"Cut to improve.
Boost to change."

[thebbender]

there is a concept call complimentary eqing where, for example if you have two electric guitar tracks you can boost a section of the mids on one and then reduce that same section on the other track. it is commonly known as carving out your tracks and I have done this to graet extent on my tunes. Some engineers with put a high pass filter at around 150 hz on every thing except either the bass or the kick drum. also use the stereo field. you could hard pan guitars left and right, and keep vox and bass striaght down the middle.


peter



www.myspace.com/peterkeller

[Larry F]

These are very good comments. The frequency range that each instrument has that is boosted is called the formant.

I agree that the arrangements need to have fewer attacks on every pulse or subdivision. Try to let each instrument have a few hits where no other instrument sounds. Sometimes you can suggest the presence of an instrument without having to use it so much. A related idea is to have each instrument focus on a different register when they play the same chord. You can also subtly detune the instruments which will broaden the sound.

I agree that more panning would be a good idea. I also feel that the transients are muddy. In the audio world, there is something called a BBE Sonic Maximizer that really brings out transients. I believe they sell a plug-in for Windows.

Sampled sounds are problematic, in that the same sound is played over and over (like a snare), which can be very annoying. If you can randomize that in some way, that would be good. If you can't randomize the actual choice of sample, try randomizing volume, panning, and timing. The degree of randomness should be very small, just enough to produce a sense of liveliness.

Finally, you can also try several layers of reverb. The first layer will be to create a very small space like that of a guitar amp being mic'ed in a room, or a singer in booth, that kind of thing. A very tight reverb, with individual settings for each instrument. You can try panning the reverb to the opposite side of the instrument. The second layer will apply to all instruments to situate them in the same space. The final layer, if you want, is the sweetener that you had if you like that kind of wet, washy sound.