Opinions on monitors

[Jason S]

I need to get some decent but inexpenive studio monitors. I have a small 12 x 12 room that I use for my studio. I'm running Logic pro 8 on a Macbook Pro. I have been looking at the KRK RP5G2 Rokit G2. Does anybody have a opinion on these? Or, other sugestions in the same price range.

[vjf1968]

I use these http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-SAM-RUB5A-BSTK
and thats for the pair.

Also check these:
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-SAM-RES65A-LIST

The KRKs are $150.00 EACH

[Daddydex]

The more I read, the more I realize how subjective the choice of monitors is. Consensus seems to be that you should really get to know your monitors and how they translate to other systems. Just dive in and get started.

Dan

[mudbean]

KRK makes decent monitors - I've got a pair of Rokit 8's right now, they're O.K. ... hate to say this, but whatever you put in an untreated 12x12 room won't make much difference (the room is going to have extensive sonic challenges due to standing waves and flutter echo distortion - these will detract from the sound of your monitors). Any speaker system advertised by any of the major distributors will work just fine.

mud

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Daddydex

The more I read, the more I realize how subjective the choice of monitors is. Consensus seems to be that you should really get to know your monitors and how they translate to other systems. Just dive in and get started.

Dan

There is a degree of subjectivity but some products in the low end that are called 'professional audio monitors' are pretty bad and better used as stereo speakers (by people who hate music).

Genelec, Dynaudio, KRK and a couple of others do decent offerings but really it costs good money to make a monitor, therefore it costs good money to buy one.
The good news is once you learn your monitors, you can do good work (see NS10's).
The bad news is 99% of people buying monitors (as opposed to people working as audio engineers) will never get to that point.

The process of 'learning your monitors' is, frankly, a painful and irritating process.

I use a pair of Dynaudio BM6a's and Genelec 1031a's - they do the job but not exactly esoteric.
If I had unlimited cash I'd invest in some high end Adams.
They rock.

[Tim Armstrong]

I agree with mudbean that it pretty much doesn't matter how good your monitors are if the room isn't optimal, and a square room can be a nightmare. A good site (albeit a site that's selling stuff) is Ethan Winer's RealTraps site. Lots of good info there.

And I also agree with octatonic about the worth of most inexpensive monitors. In fact, being on a low budget myself, I'm using a pair of comparatively inexpensive bookshelf speakers (mine happen to be Cambridge Soundworks Model Seventeen speakers designed by Henry Koss) powered by a Sansui stereo amp that I got on eBay for fifty bucks. For my purposes (definitely a hobbyist rather than a professional), they work well, but if good fortune should smile upon me and give me lots of extra cash, I'd be putting some pro monitors into an acoustically treated room asap!

Cheers, Tim

[Jason S]

Thanks for the link Tim. That's a interesting site. I probably will do some kind of treatment to the room. Not sure exactly what yet. And the room is actually smaller than I thought. It's 9.5' x 11' if that matters.

I just read a pretty good review of the Samson monitors that vjf1968 is using.

[cantolina]

Alesis has always had a really good nearfield monitor for a decent price....

[Daddydex]

Mudbean makes an excellent point about room treatment. I have read (and Ethan Winer has concurred) that opening a window(if you have the option) can really cut down on some of these reflections. Also mixing at lower volumes is better in an untreated room. Just food for thought.

Dan

[Rado]

As always, depends on your budget and what you want to achieve. Sound proofing your room is a never ending quest. Wall to wall bookshelves are a good solution.

I used to have a pair of 1029 Genelecs with the subwoofer, but all I could hear was how bad the room was. Move your head 50cm's and the sound would change totally. I get decent enough results these days from a pair of AKG headphones now that I don't do club mixes any more.

These are good value:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may0...esipronear.htm

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by octatonic

The process of 'learning your monitors' is, frankly, a painful and irritating process.

This was the biggest wake up call for me with my hobby recording. I have the KRK Rokkit8 and I think I've finally reached the point where I can anticipate what the music will sound like in the real world on a variety of systems.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

anticipate what the music will sound like in the real world on a variety of systems.

that's the whole challenge in a nutshell to me. yes it's painful and irritating, as Jim says! in my case, a whole lot of trial-and-error mixing, burning CDs and playing them on every system i can, taking notes, then mixing again. it may take five or six rounds of this painful and irritating ritual, but for those of us without perfect sonic environments and high-end gear, it's the only way out of the briar patch.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by woodman

...........in my case, a whole lot of trial-and-error mixing, burning CDs and playing them on every system i can, taking notes, then mixing again. it may take five or six rounds of this painful and irritating ritual, but for those of us without perfect sonic environments and high-end gear, it's the only way out of the briar patch.

And if it doesn't sound painfully, stupidly obvious, WRITE YOUR NOTES DOWN ON PAPER !!, you'll be amazed how soon you forget, don't trust keeping it all in your head.

Write down your results and read them, you might notice a pattern of why something sounds good or bad.

[TeeBird]

Very informative. I think I'll choose Tim's path and scrounge up a power amp and a decent pair of bookshelf speakers that I can reuse elsewhere later. One thing I don't like about most affordable monitors is that they are self-powered. More wire mess, less modularity and who knows about amp quality.

SV Sound looks like they have a decent set. No middleman.

[popthree]

i just recently started using an old set of Bose 141 bookshelf speakers for my home studio... i just have them hooked up to a little stereo. but i'm pretty garage

[CaptainJangle]

i have the Resolve 65a's and they are awsome! so far have lasted me a year

[leonard22]

Yamaha HSM50's are relatively cheap (199.ea on musicians friend with stands) and have useful room adjustment switches. they are not so nice you feel guilty using them at home, and they will not break the bank... i use them with my macbook pro/imac g5,logic pro, saffire AI, komplete 4, kore...ect... they sound as clean and natural as could be expected.. there are so many factors (like size of the area, position in room/corners) that spending more without proper room (size, acoustics, soundproofing) seems unnecessary..... for example i know my monitors are way to close to the walls so i have to use the "room adjustment" filter on my moniters to keep the bass at a reasonable level. but overall i like these way more than the KRK monitors they replaced!

[johnny7]

Don't forget that once you have song mixed play it as an MP3 on an IPOD or in our car. That will also give you another perspective on the sound. IMHO.

John

[mudbean]

Another point - learning your monitors is NOT something you try to do WHILE MIXING. Spend a significant amount of time listening to your monitor system with commercial CD's - the more you play them, the better they will sound (materially speaking, just like guitar amp speakers, stereo & studio speakers need time to "break in") and the more you will assimilate how they reporduce "well produced" music.

I have been using these as my studio PC speakers for the last year or so, they're not too shabby, either:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...X5aDeluxe.html

I believe I bought them for $200 for the pair @ BanjoMart or GC or someplace.

mud

[CSS]

I have been using a pair of JBL bookshelf speakers for several years and I would not swap these for any available nearfields out there. I know how my music sounds through these. I know how my music sounds in a car, on a boom box and on an mp3 player. The sound that I have, works in all the above situations and if I were to change, I would lose it for sure.

Bottom line, at least for me, is it isn't so much the monitor speaker, it is how "you" hear it.

Did that make any sense at all?

[mudbean]

Originally Posted by CSS

... Bottom line, at least for me, is it isn't so much the monitor speaker, it is how "you" hear it.

Did that make any sense at all?

Actually, YES. And, you're right, IM(NS)HO.

Edit: Tim, that's "In My (Not So) Humble Opinion"!

mud

[Jason S]

Thank you all for your input. Lots of good points. Still not sure what to buy. But, at least I know that there is no "the one". And that I can get to where I need to be with many in my price range.

[giantslayer]

Is there anything wrong with using home audio speakers instead of near field monitors? I seem to have the impression that you're supposed to use near fields. Honestly, I have a pretty sweet home stereo setup with some older Kenwood 3-way tower speakers. They have pretty good overall balance and excellent bass extension. I also have an 80's Sansui preamp I picked up at the same pawn shop and this setup sounds excellent with music with a little loudness contour. I guess I have a hard time seeing why a cheap pair of nearfields would be a better setup for mixing.

Of course, I also have a hard time seeing why headphones are such a bad idea for mixing if you have good headphones, but that seems to be pretty widely agreed upon by people who know their stuff.

[vjf1968]

Originally Posted by giantslayer

Is there anything wrong with using home audio speakers instead of near field monitors? I seem to have the impression that you're supposed to use near fields. Honestly, I have a pretty sweet home stereo setup with some older Kenwood 3-way tower speakers. They have pretty good overall balance and excellent bass extension. I also have an 80's Sansui preamp I picked up at the same pawn shop and this setup sounds excellent with music with a little loudness contour. I guess I have a hard time seeing why a cheap pair of nearfields would be a better setup for mixing.

Of course, I also have a hard time seeing why headphones are such a bad idea for mixing if you have good headphones, but that seems to be pretty widely agreed upon by people who know their stuff.

The problem with mixing using headphones is that you really have an exaggerated idea of the stereo image, and you will over EQ things. Mixing with “near fields” is really the best way to mix and evaluate a recording. You can use headphones to listen to see how it sounds in that environment but never for mixing exclusively. Recording and mixing demos on headphones is another matter because with a demo you just want to get across the basic idea of a song and the arrangement without disturbing the neighbors.

You also have to realize that the speakers you buy for your home entertainment system are not really the same as “near fields.” Home stereo speakers are designed to “color” the sound of what your listening to while “near fields” are designed to be “flat” with no coloration of the sound whatsoever. However, no matter what you use does not really matter unless you tame the room where you are doing the mix. Standing waves and other acoustic anomalies are always going to get in the way of what you are trying to do until you take the proper steps in acoustically treating the room.

[eddiewagner]

i have three systems: a 29 bucks subwoofer system 8that is the good sounding one), a supercheap system and a pair of good headphones. i will mix my stuff in the headphones, then do a mix with the subwoofer-system and have a final look with the badsounding monitors. that is all i can do and i am not willing to spend more money. that is good enough for my garage-sound.