Any love for casstte 4 track recorders?

[Vol. Knob]

Just curious. I have a Tascam 464 that is the bomb. Currently on loan to an old friend recovering from a massive headwound. I've also loaned him an old drum machine, DigiTech RP100 and headphones. I've been re-teaching him stuff he wrote a long time ago.

He and I were in a band together back in '92. We'd hang out in the attic of a house full of "clandestine horticulturally inclined" hippies and record on an old Tascam Porta 5 with our cheap strat copies, drum machine, solid state Peavey amps, $70 pawn shop bass, and $5 gallon of wine and create some of the best music nobody ever heard.

[Skully]

I had a love for them back in 1984 or 1985, when I bought my first Tascam PortaStudio, but I see no practical use for them now. But if people can get rhapsodic about vinyl...

[mlove3]

no.

digital audio workstation is the new 4 track and for the hobbyist it can't be beat.

I had a tascam for years and could never get a decent demo out of it, bass always sounded like mush, warble, tape BS, etc..

[Borgnine!]

I've got two (a fostex & a tascam---I forget the models) I'm willing to let go for a song (or less).

[davidge1]

I remember cassettes. I think my parents used to use those.

...heh.

[mudbean]

Originally Posted by mlove3

no.

digital audio workstation is the new 4 track and for the hobbyist it can't be beat.

I had a tascam for years and could never get a decent demo out of it, bass always sounded like mush, warble, tape BS, etc..

+1 ... We had a Tascam PortaOne in the early 90's. Did tons of work with that little box, and I hated it for the exact reasons noted above. Once I went to ADAT in '95, I never looked back - currently recording to HD24.

mud

[rahbee]

i love my fostex x-12. im going to be on the used market for a big mixer with cassette recording. because TAPE SOUNDS SOOO MUCH BETTER...

but seriously i like recording to cassette.

[esteban]

I think they're easier to use than all the digital stuff, especially for someone who isn't looking for the BEST quality. Just plug in, get the volume levels right, and off you go.

The digital recorders I see at stores have all these built-in effects and doodads, so they just look more complicated to me. Not appealing.

[popthree]

no, because even if you do get a decent sounding recording (not easy), you will still end up wanting to digitize it at some point.... so what's the point ?

[woodman]

i about wore the the heads on a PortaOne down to a nub in the '80s-'90s, and when i got it, it was like being set free. but that feeling happened all over again when i discovered GarageBand. enjoy your Tascam, but remember there's an equally easy fallback when you outgrow it.

[Tim Armstrong]

I had a hell of a lot of fun with various 4-track machines back in the 80s. My college punk band did a 5-song E.P. on a Fostex X-15 that is still one of my favorite recordings, and I had a lot of fun with a couple 4-track reel-to-reel decks, too.

I learned a ton, too, and I try to remember how CREATIVE you had to be to make cool recordings with such track and processing limitations. It's so much easier to be lazy these days!

Cheers, Tim

[giginthesky]

4 track cassette recorders are like old girlfriends.... they were good while they lasted.

[FMA]

Rahbee,
Check your private messages.

[Tim73]

Had some great results back in the day but I must confess I definately prefer the scope with digital studios these days. And as Skully mentioned it, I love vinyl!

[JimiBryant]

I still love my Fostex!

[woodman]

sounds like not much love for 4-track cassettes, but i hate it's raining on your parade since you have a soft spot for it.

if you're keeping your songs to four tracks, they can be great little songwriting aids. however, the huge drawback is when you start bouncing tracks to create 7-8 track songs ... i can't tell you how many times i got stuck with muddy bass tracks and unbalanced drum tracks once the original tracks are bounced and you have no control over them from that point on. therein lies one massive advantage of digital.

[Vol. Knob]

Not that I really live or die by this device... I just posted this as an aftertought. How many of us started this way when we were young?

In 1989, I sold my car so I could buy a drum machine (Boss Dr Rhythm), 4 track (Tascam Porta-5), and cheap bass. I got sick of trying to put a band together only to not have enough members, all the bandmates wanted to do was party and look cool, they'd suck as musicians, or we'd break up after 1/2 a band practice.

For me, its more about the memory of times past, back in the early '90s. Late at night, half bent, in a dark inscence stinking room, laying down tracks that I was sure would change the world, or at least make me a legend. I have 2 huge cases full of tapes from that decade. Masters tapes of jams, experiments, recordings in process, etc....

I use all-digital recording these days. Modeling. Processors. etc. I've been using a BOSS BR1180CD for 5 years. I've begun using my laptop as well. Our band's rhythm guitarist has a digital rig in his garage that we'll work together on from time to time. My Tascam 464 was relegated to "spare mixer" status for a few things, but otherwise it was collecting dust. I've not fired it up as a recording tool in.... well.. dang.... Perhaps the last time was in 1999.

Like I said, I've loaned it to a friend who's overcoming a massive headwound. Brain loss and such. He's got a few things to re-learn. I fixed his old guitar and loaned him the 4 track, since we used a Tascam Porta-5 back in the day, along with a drum machine and an amp modeling pedal. I hope this aids his recovery since his family doesnt have the money for any real therapy and who's religious beleif is.. well... frighteningly close to "cult-like" in their paranoia.

[Stackabones]

Have you heard any Chris Murray? He did an album recently (late 90s early 00s) called "4 Track Adventures" or something like that ... it uses the "old" cassette stuff. His newer one, "Raw," was recorded entirely on a recording walkman ... definitely lo-fi. Killer songwriter.

[graphs]

doing 4 track recordings back in high school was a hugely formative experience for me! it's how i learned that i love to record things. obviously current recording technology makes them seem obsolete, but for simplicity and ease of use they can't be beat.

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by woodman

if you're keeping your songs to four tracks, they can be great little songwriting aids.

Yup. To this day, recording for me is more about writing and arranging than anything else. Even with unlimited tracks, MIDI drums, etc. etc. etc. -- I wrote some of my best material, with just an acoustic and my Tascam.

[Dann-O]

Well I hope that loaning the 4 track to your friend will help him recover. There is a lot to know when you record and that might help.

I use a digital 4 track a micro BR so I am still stuck in 4 track mode. I picked it because it is so small it can be put in your pocket and you can record anywhere also because I got used to working with 4 tracks. I started using a 4 track back in the early 80s with a reel to reel machine. Was so much fun. Had to keep recording.

[E.D. Patton]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I dearly love all the "humble" formats.

There's something great about a 4-track cassette machine.

I'd recommend picking up a 1/2" 4-track (Ampex, Otari, etc.). I just saw a Otari MTR-12 in perfect working order (+10 reels of good tape) for $300!

You can master an album off that format. They did it for years.

I dislike computer based recording (though not mixing...). There is nothing worse than getting ready to cut a track and getting a crash.

Rock on Knobster!

[bluesfordan]

Originally Posted by E.D. Patton

I know I'm in the minority here, but I dearly love all the "humble" formats.

There's something great about a 4-track cassette machine.

I'd recommend picking up a 1/2" 4-track (Ampex, Otari, etc.). I just saw a Otari MTR-12 in perfect working order (+10 reels of good tape) for $300!

You can master an album off that format. They did it for years.

I dislike computer based recording (though not mixing...). There is nothing worse than getting ready to cut a track and getting a crash.

Rock on Knobster!

Count me in for the old 4 track fan club. For what I do, it is the simplest solution. I have a Tascam 424. It is portable, doesn't have noisy fans, doesn't crash at inopportune moments. If I accidentally hit the top of the headroom, I don't get that horrible digital clipping.

I am in the process of converting all my old cassettes to digital, for the purpose of archiving them. Then I plan to erase the tapes and reuse them until they disintegrate. I just now found my bulk eraser, NIB, that I bought so many years ago.

Can you PM me with the information on that Otari, please?

[Rado]

More than 1 person has recorded multi-million dollar demos on a 4-track cazzy, and there's no reason that should change. Long live the 4-track! (though my Fostex gave up the ghost 15 years ago..)

Battery operated too, so you can use it in a tent on days when it's raining and the females and the fish aren't interested.

And, kids will think you're related to Mr Lucifer himself if you let them play with it.

[Skully]

More than 1 person has recorded multi-million dollar demos on a 4-track cazzy, and there's no reason that should change.

Er... But there are plenty of reasons that should change, chiefly that one can get infinitely better results with a computer based recording system, without wasting time and money on what is essentially an obsolete technology. There's also the fact that if one intends to present said demos to an outside party, they'll be less than impressed with that 4-track sound if it's anything more complex than acoustic guitar and voice.

[vjf1968]

Actually this thread has given me an idea to pull my Portastudio out of the archives and try it in conjunction with my current recording set up. I also have a 2 track Revox sitting in storage. Im thinking about using them to dirty up some bass and drum tracks. Thats the fun thing about home recording, there are no rules and you don't have someone looking over your shoulder saying, "You can't do that!"

Old technology should not be looked upon as obsolete. Intergrate the old with the new I say.

[Rado]

Home recordings that sold a million:

Betty Davis Eyes - Recorded on a walkman with an acoustic guitar.

Simply The Best - Recorded on a cassette player. Acoustic guitar and bloke singing

Bruce Springsteen recorded NEBRASKA on a 4-track

[vjf1968]

duplicate post. sorry.

[vjf1968]

Er... But there are plenty of reasons that should change, chiefly that one can get infinitely better results with a computer based recording system, without wasting time and money on what is essentially an obsolete technology.


Obviously you never heard of Martin Newell. He has made complete albums under his own name or as Cleaners From Venus using a 4 track recorder and they sound pretty good. Sometimes its not what equipment your using but who is using it.

There's also the fact that if one intends to present said demos to an outside party, they'll be less than impressed with that 4-track sound if it's anything more complex than acoustic guitar and voice.

That is not necessarily true. If a label is looking for songs, they do not really care what recording format was used. They just want a CD of the finished song. When a band submits demos, most labels re-record the songs anyway so the format it was originally recorded on is not an issue. There a couple books by Moses Avalone on myths perpetrated by so-called industry insiders and how they have artists chasing their collective tails and blowing vital funds on trying to get a demo to sound "radio ready", when all they really need to do is just get it on to tape. But being that there really isnt much of a "record industry" any more, anything is fair game.

[Skully]

Obviously you never heard of Martin Newell. He has made complete albums under his own name or as Cleaners From Venus using a 4 track recorder and they sound pretty good. Sometimes its not what equipment your using but who is using it.

Absolutely. But a 4-track cassette recorder gives an artist a whole slew of whopping technical and creative limitations. If you like 'em, fine, but they're hardly worthy of championing to others.

That is not necessarily true. If a label is looking for songs, they do not really care what recording format was used. They just want a CD of the finished song.

From what I understand, the bar for what is considered acceptable has raised considerably in recent years. They now expect a rather full production.

Home recordings that sold a million:

Betty Davis Eyes - Recorded on a walkman with an acoustic guitar.

Simply The Best - Recorded on a cassette player. Acoustic guitar and bloke singing

The home recordings themselves only sold the songs. You're talking about demos recorded in the '80s...

Bruce Springsteen recorded NEBRASKA on a 4-track

...and a superstar artist who recorded and released an album in the '80s. It might've sold a million, based on his name and critical plaudits, but it's definitely an isolated case.

[Strawfields]

NO

Great when there was nothing else

[mudbean]

Originally Posted by Strawfields

NO

Great when there was nothing else

Exactly.

Our Tascam PortaOne cost us $500 back in the early 90's. For under $300 today, you can get Tascam's 8 Track digital version of the PortaStudio. Just seems silly to stay with a cassette 4 track, IMHO.

mud

[RodeoTex]

I have a like-new Fostex F-26 that I bought just before the whole world went digital. I never used and was going to put it on ebay but apparently it isn't even worth the effort.
I'd gladly give it to anyone who would actually use it.

[Telepatio]

Digital is great, but a four track can be great too, especially if it's what is handy!

[Skully]

Digital is great, but a four track can be great too, especially if it's what is handy!

Let's see. I'm typing this on a computer, so...

I also loved my 4-track back in the day (mid '80s). It was a revolutionary tool for musicians, amateur or otherwise, and I did a lot of neat stuff with it. And working within technical limitations can inadvertantly inspire some interesting artistic choices. But given the choice between limitation and freedom, I'll take the latter, especially when the result is so sonically superior.

[bluesy]

Maybe not the best recordings, but it gives you an idea what can be done on a Tascam Porta 07 analog 4 track.

www.myspace.com/roneandtheronetones

[J-man]

I can't stand cassette anything...

I had a cassette collection when I was young, even then I picked up on the fact that they sound like crap when they're new and get worse very quickly.

These days you can get small, portable, digital four tracks for not much more than a cassette based one.

[Pickalittle]

If you are going to have to bounce any tracks and overdub, you will find that the noise becomes very unacceptable very quickly. I started recording on 2" tape in the '60's, then 1/4" and finally cassette (sounds backwards...hmmm). Ya know, I've been there, and I really don't want to go back. Too much hassle editing tape, cutting/splicing, clicks thereof, etc.
I did a whole album on a TEAC 3340 4 track reel-to-reel, with Dolby noise reduction. First generation recordings sounded pretty good. 2nd gen tracks
got too noisy and I could hear clicks where I carefully edited and spiced.

[mudbean]

Originally Posted by J-man

I had a cassette collection when I was young, even then I picked up on the fact that they sound like crap when they're new and get worse very quickly.

HAR!! Exactly!

mud

[vjf1968]

Originally Posted by Skully

Absolutely. But a 4-track cassette recorder gives an artist a whole slew of whopping technical and creative limitations. If you like 'em, fine, but they're hardly worthy of championing to others.



From what I understand, the bar for what is considered acceptable has raised considerably in recent years. They now expect a rather full production.



The home recordings themselves only sold the songs. You're talking about demos recorded in the '80s...



...and a superstar artist who recorded and released an album in the '80s. It might've sold a million, based on his name and critical plaudits, but it's definitely an isolated case.

I do not want any misunderstanding. 4-Track cassette recorders are obsolete considering the recording software that is out there. I just feel it is foolish to abandon something just because it’s old. I have been guilty of that myself.

As I said, there really is no "Music Industry" just "industry.” However, most of the major labels are looking for songs not bands. I have heard cassette recordings that sounded better than most things recordings done on a computer. Granted that the band recorded to a portastudio via the PA mixer, got good levels, rehearsed the three songs that they were going to do, set the machine at its highest IPS setting and cut. I think they put the final mix on a DAT. It was all they had at their disposal at that time and they made it work, and they learned something along the way.

I am a firm believer that not amount of production is going to save a bad song. You can’t polish a turd.

Just a final question, shouldn’t this discussion really be in the Bad Dog Café