Pro's Using Amp Modeling?

[markw51]

I get the impression that a growing number of professionals are using amp modeling rather than micing an amp in the recording studio.

Is that true? What do you think of it?

I read something about Johnny Hiland using an amp modeling device now for recording.

[graphs]

really? i think amp modelling is more aimed at the home/project recordist than professionals. i'm sure some pro's use the technology at home, but i'd be surprised if that was their choice when it came time to actually lay tracks.

[CatfishStudios]

Without dropping any names, Yes some pro's are using amp modeling in the studio..and some even on stage! You might be surprised discovering how many hits have been made on PODS! I use one for home studio but not on stage...although I could go direct from a PODXT live to the board and most likely get very impressive tones.

[woodman]

i've heard scuttlebutt about modelers being used in some of the hit factories ... as the technology advances, we'll probably hear about more.

in my case, the POD is my only viable alternative. the Woodshed is tiny -- 8 by 15 feet -- so when i mike up an amp at a level where i can get some juice, the din is so loud i can't hear my headphones!

[getbent]

I know several folks who are 'brand names' who use Roger Linn's adrennalinn... you can read about it on his site.

Pete Anderson, on his website, talks about using Line6 products on records...

Arlo uses a modeling amp.

The number of records made using software tools like amp farm is huge... I'll bet a ton of artists don't even know that they are using it.

[graphs]

at home or in a project studio it makes total sense, but i can't imagine being in a pro recording studio with all room treatments, amps, mics etc., and using something that was designed to recreate that environment synthetically. just seems odd.

[Big John]

I have to say it's the PODII for 99% of my studio work now, i will take an amp if asked for but most folk don't.
I think it depends slightly on where you are in the chain, i tend to mostly get calls for overdubs now as opposed to tracking with a bassist, drummer etc, if i was tracking i might just be tempted to use an amp.
A real amp and speakers, well recorded sounds great but then again, so does a well recorded POD !.
I'm in and out much faster and a good engineer can make it sound a whole lot better, faster so everyone is happy really.
Strange thing is i really don't like playing in the control room so when possible will sit in the studio to play, imagining i have an amp no doubt !

[StuH]

I've read a few articles but not many where some sort of modeller has been used in a re-amping situations for some big named productions. Believe the last one I read was about a recent Evanessence production in which some guitar tracks were re-amping either through Waves GTR or Amp Farm. Other guitar tracks were cloned running a modeller in parallel. I might be mistaken about the band but it was a big name.

Also any article you see on indie productions shows pictures of Pod XT rackmounts in the background. I could go back in the mag collection and name at least 15 indie productions who have used Guitar Rig 2, Amplitube or some sort of Pod in the production of a cd. These are indie artist who don't need second jobs. It's real common seeing this in the indie studios unless I'm the victim of clever advertising.

I think Getbent is right in that alot of artists probably don't know the modellers would be used in the production at all.

[Telephx]

I think it is more common than you might believe and will become more so. Play through the amp to hear yourself but record the Guitar direct and then find your tone with the software. Everything has to be digital at some point anyways, so why not start early in the process? Remember a lot of the 70's stuff ( yeah disco but Steely Dan too) was DI to the mixing board. Didn't Tom Scholz (Boston for the youngun's) start all this with his "Rockman"?

As far as live, I know Bob Weir uses Line 6 Pod Pro's and I know another small regional band that has two setups- one for real stages and one for small bars-- guess what-- the small bar setup is a 4 space rack for each guitarist with Pod Pro's going into the PA and monitors.

Think about it, a 4 space rack OR a Marshall Head, a 4 x 12 cabinet, and Mics?........

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by markw51

I get the impression that a growing number of professionals are using amp modeling rather than micing an amp in the recording studio.

Is that true? What do you think of it?

I read something about Johnny Hiland using an amp modeling device now for recording.

I'm not.
I'm still sticking with tube amps in a good room, great mics and preamps.

If I could find a modelling solution that gave me the same results, I would use it.

I don't use tube amps, good room, mics and preamps because I WANT to spend loads of money- I use it because it works better than any other option available.

I own a Pod Pro XT with all the option packs, Amp Farm TDM, Waves GTR3 TDM, Sansamp TDM, Guitar Rig, Amplitube and a bunch of other options- I use them from time to time, but really, when it all comes down to quality, nothing comes close to the real deal.

[Skully]

I'd bet that modeling is the rule rather than the exception these days.

A month or two back, I visited the home studio of musician/producer who does a lot of TV soundtrack work (he bought a second home and turned the entire thing into studio/office space). Vintage guitars lined the wall. Not an amp in sight. He uses Guitar Rig 2 with a foot controller.

[robt57]

I saw Bonamassa using a Flextone IIXL a few years back, it sounded so good I found one and traded something for it. It was was too much power though, and sold it due to lack of use. I had no problem with the tone, you might even say.... I loved that freaking thing. ;)

[Scott S]

I can't remember which album it was, but Wilco went and bought a whole bunch of vintage gear prior to going into the studio. They laid down a bunch of scratch tracks with Line 6's, then never got around to replacing them with "real" tracks -- the modelled stuff sounded good enough to them!

[TeeBird]

I think the heavy stuff sounds pretty good, but I'll be a convert when I hear a convincing emulation of a goosed blackface Fender.

Octonic convinced me to mic a clean amp on a recent project and I'm glad I did.

But for scratch trax modelers are great!

[Big John]

Originally Posted by TeeBird

..........but I'll be a convert when I hear a convincing emulation of a goosed blackface Fender.

I'll be a convert for the 'other side' when i see someone accurately spot the difference !

[TeeBird]

Lemme at it. Now, to be sure, it has to be someone "playing" the amp like blues players do, not some guy playing nice arpeggios. For the latter, for backing trax, for distorted chord parts, I'm suspect it could be indistinguishable.

[Big John]

TeeBird, we have had that argument here many times, it's like trying to catch smoke, there's no way of doing it unless we are at least in the same room, i play you the sound of a Twin, you identify it, i deny it !!, it don't work.
My point was just that i think it's virtually impossible to tell unless you know the session details, if it's a song and/or performance you are enjoying i'm willing to bet you will think it's a well recorded amp you are hearing.

There was a great experiment where hi-fi 'experts' had to choose the best cables they were listening too and none of them could distinguish the difference between ridiculously priced 'hi-end' monster cable and wire coat hangers.
Sad reading (click)

[TeeBird]

In most cases I'm sure you are right, but until I hear a retro blues album that was recorded through a modeler and can't tell the difference, you can post all you like. And not even any blues player; I suspect BB King's smooth tone could be worked up really well through a modeler. But those raw open tones; I don't buy it. Enuff said.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by TeeBird

..........but until I hear a retro blues album that was recorded through a modeler and can't tell the difference, you can post all you like.
Enuff said.

Good point, but "how would you know" ? is my point

Only way round this !!, bring your guitar round my house and we'll go the pub next door !!

[getbent]

Originally Posted by TeeBird

Enuff said.

Well, maybe by you.

When people use this term it is usually interpreted as dismissive.

BB has recorded lots of albums with solid state amps... not usually considered tone heaven by most... You have every right and I encourage you to use whatever you want in the studio or in live performance... but to the original question... it IS true that lots of albums/cds are being recorded using modelers whether software or boxes. As to what we think about it... you seem to not think too highly of it... some guys who work in studios use them and find they sound just fine... when everyone has had their say.. that will be when enough has been said... it is just a discussion.. open ended discussion is to be encouraged.

btw, who would be an artist who if they recorded with a modeler... you'd listen?

[TeeBird]

Come on, it's just my opinion, which I am entitled to; I don't know you from Adam; I'll keep my views until convinced otherwise (and not by someone posting on a forum). Anyone else is free to have a different one be it considered or otherwise.

Edit: If you think I'm trying to be a (euphemism: bad person) you are reading between the lines. Just stating my views.

[getbent]

Absolutely! My opinion is a 'considered' one I guess. I have recorded with both.. I have recordings in twanger central with both. I own tube amps and love them, I own lots of blues records and cds from various eras and I've worked in several studios... my ears are certainly not as good as others etc.. but I listen closely and care about things sounding good... (probably more than Hound Dog Taylor)... I think that if you gave the black face fender sounds in Amp Farm a try, you might be surprised.

All I was saying is that a forum is a good place to listen to lots of opinions and examples... I've tried multiple examples of both... but I am still interested in hearing other ideas.

[Twanginator]

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[sax4blues]

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[TelZilla]