Recording a half-step up... stupid question

bad porcupine · April 1st, 2008, 02:51 PM

Question for you experienced studio people: Just for fun, I want to record a version of "Folsom Prison Blues" in Garageband, in my little home studio. I'll be playing one electric guitar, one acoustic, mandolin, and bass, along with a drum track.

Trouble is, I'm no Johnny Cash. I can't hit that low "E" note vocally, but if I capo up a half-step and play it in "F" I can do it.

So my question: Should I capo all instruments, or capo nothing and shift everything up a half-step in Garageband? Or, just sing my best in "E", and try to fix that one vocal note by shifting it down in GB?

Daddydex · April 1st, 2008, 03:27 PM

I think I would go the capo route. I think it would make post production a lot easier.

Dan

DJG105 · April 1st, 2008, 03:37 PM

Isn't Johnny Cash's Version in F? I've always played in the the key of F

Definitely play it in F (with or without a capo)- If you attempt to pitch shift without time-shifting you will likely wind up with some strange sounding artifacts in the recording. It'll be a much better recording without the shifting.

bad porcupine · April 1st, 2008, 04:54 PM

yeah, I figured that was probably the answer. Playing with a capo confuses my simple brain though

I always thought the original was in E; maybe I'll have to take another listen (although I've been playing it this way for a long time!)

Daddydex · April 1st, 2008, 08:08 PM

You could just adapt it to the key of F without using a capo. Just play with it a little.

Dan

octatonic · April 1st, 2008, 08:18 PM

You cannot pitch shift an entire track a semitone and maintain any degree of believability.
The technology is getting better but it isn't that good, yet.

You could play with a capo, arrange for barre chords or inversions or simply tune the guitar up a semitone.

kludge · April 2nd, 2008, 04:14 PM

Capo, don't shift. Bits don't bend that way too well.

FirstBassman · April 2nd, 2008, 05:39 PM

Absolutely capo the guitar and play other instrucments in F.

Aside #1: I'd be surprised that one-half tone would make that much of a difference in singing the song. If that low E is out of your range, F isn't going to be that much better. I'd try going up to G or A.
Or sing the E in a different octave. There's no law that says you have to sing it exactly like Cash did.

Aside # 2:

RE:

Quote:

Isn't Johnny Cash's Version in F? I've always played in the the key of F

Every guitar player I've met plays it in E.
The opening lick is off of a B7 chord (the V of E).

tonytrout · April 2nd, 2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Every guitar player I've met plays it in E.
The opening lick is off of a B7 chord (the V of E).

Yep, it's played in E

jjh37854 · April 2nd, 2008, 07:32 PM

or tune the instruments (at least the elec guitar) up to F

that way you will get a nice contrast with the instruments in standard tuning and you will still have the openess that the E position gives you.

bad porcupine · April 2nd, 2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstBassman

Absolutely capo the guitar and play other instrucments in F.

Aside #1: I'd be surprised that one-half tone would make that much of a difference in singing the song. If that low E is out of your range, F isn't going to be that much better. I'd try going up to G or A.
Or sing the E in a different octave. There's no law that says you have to sing it exactly like Cash did.

Aside # 2:

RE:

Every guitar player I've met plays it in E.
The opening lick is off of a B7 chord (the V of E).

You're probably right about one-half tone not making it much easier for me. And, I was experimenting a bit today (singing in the car!), and I think you're right again, I can maybe sing it in E, but avoid that low E...

Anyway, thanks for all the responses!

alabubba · April 6th, 2008, 10:48 PM

Capos are really great things, I wouldn't hesitate to use one to make a song easier to sing (or play, for that matter). And if 1 fret isn't enough, go 2 or 3. Then see what it does to you for mando or bass, it might make for a fine mandolin song with no capo on the mando, if you moved it all the way up to G. Just a thought.

Skully · April 7th, 2008, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Aside #1: I'd be surprised that one-half tone would make that much of a difference in singing the song.

I play most of my songs with a capo behind the first fret. It makes a huge difference for me. It took me a long time to figure out that my voice is more suited to songs in keys such as -- Bflat, Aflat and F. I even began to realize that songs that I enjoyed singing along with on the radio were in these keys. My regular voice sounds better, my falsetto (or should I says "false"?) sounds better. If I was a truly talented singer, that probably wouldn't be the case, but the sad fact is that I'm not.

I just took a look a video of Cash playing "Folsom Prison Blues" in 1994 and he does it in E with a cap on the second fret. That's kind of weird. Maybe he did it so he had more rhythmic control over the high strings in the E chord (open D shape).

esteban · April 7th, 2008, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skully

I play most of my songs with a capo behind the first fret. It makes a huge difference for me. It took me a long time to figure out that my voice is more suited to songs in keys such as -- Bflat, Aflat and F. I even began to realize that songs that I enjoyed singing along with on the radio were in these keys. My regular voice sounds better, my falsetto (or should I says "false"?) sounds better. If I was a truly talented singer, that probably wouldn't be the case, but the sad fact is that I'm not.

I just took a look a video of Cash playing "Folsom Prison Blues" in 1994 and he does it in E with a cap on the second fret. That's kind of weird. Maybe he did it so he had more rhythmic control over the high strings in the E chord (open D shape).

Could've just been that his voice couldn't go that far anymore.

Tim Armstrong · April 7th, 2008, 10:12 AM

Here's Johnny Cash playing it in F, using a capo, live at San Quentin...

Cheers, Tim

neocaster · April 7th, 2008, 10:49 AM

So this meant, "You can play it in F, too..."

Old Cane · April 10th, 2008, 10:28 PM

Am I the only one here that doesn't own a capo? I think I had one back when I was 7 or 8 and didn't know what a bar (yes, bar) chord was. I remember doing a session one time and somebody asked if i wanted a capo. You should have seen the looks on their faces when i said no.

I've played FPB in several keys. Haven't you guys ever worked with a girl singer?

bad porcupine · April 11th, 2008, 09:08 AM

The way I play it is the Jim Heath rockabilly-ish solo version, from some tribute album, and it's all open chord hybrid picking (as far as I can figure out anyway). So, I'd have to capo to play it that way and still hit the low notes vocally.

April 1st, 2008, 02:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
bad porcupine Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Age: 47 Posts: 265 9 Photos	Recording a half-step up... stupid question Question for you experienced studio people: Just for fun, I want to record a version of "Folsom Prison Blues" in Garageband, in my little home studio. I'll be playing one electric guitar, one acoustic, mandolin, and bass, along with a drum track. Trouble is, I'm no Johnny Cash. I can't hit that low "E" note vocally, but if I capo up a half-step and play it in "F" I can do it. So my question: Should I capo all instruments, or capo nothing and shift everything up a half-step in Garageband? Or, just sing my best in "E", and try to fix that one vocal note by shifting it down in GB? __________________ My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. -- Vladimir Nabokov

April 1st, 2008, 03:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
Daddydex Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,722	I think I would go the capo route. I think it would make post production a lot easier. Dan __________________ Teles are like Mr. Potato head

April 1st, 2008, 04:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
bad porcupine Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Age: 47 Posts: 265 9 Photos	yeah, I figured that was probably the answer. Playing with a capo confuses my simple brain though I always thought the original was in E; maybe I'll have to take another listen (although I've been playing it this way for a long time!) __________________ My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. -- Vladimir Nabokov

April 1st, 2008, 08:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
Daddydex Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,722	You could just adapt it to the key of F without using a capo. Just play with it a little. Dan __________________ Teles are like Mr. Potato head

April 1st, 2008, 08:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
octatonic Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2007 Location: An Australian in London. Posts: 1,669	You cannot pitch shift an entire track a semitone and maintain any degree of believability. The technology is getting better but it isn't that good, yet. You could play with a capo, arrange for barre chords or inversions or simply tune the guitar up a semitone. __________________ "A jazz musician is a juggler who uses harmonies instead of oranges." Benny Green

April 1st, 2008, 03:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
DJG105 Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SI, NYC Posts: 284 5 Photos	Isn't Johnny Cash's Version in F? I've always played in the the key of F Definitely play it in F (with or without a capo)- If you attempt to pitch shift without time-shifting you will likely wind up with some strange sounding artifacts in the recording. It'll be a much better recording without the shifting.

April 2nd, 2008, 04:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
kludge Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Minneapolis Age: 43 Posts: 1,025	Capo, don't shift. Bits don't bend that way too well. __________________ Oz: Well, other bands know more than three chords. Your professional bands can play up to six, sometimes seven completely different chords. Devon: That's just, like, fruity jazz bands. -from Buffy the Vampire Slayer

April 2nd, 2008, 07:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
jjh37854 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Francisco Age: 35 Posts: 1,161 7 Photos	or tune the instruments (at least the elec guitar) up to F that way you will get a nice contrast with the instruments in standard tuning and you will still have the openess that the E position gives you.

April 6th, 2008, 10:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
alabubba Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alabama Age: 56 Posts: 123	Capos are really great things, I wouldn't hesitate to use one to make a song easier to sing (or play, for that matter). And if 1 fret isn't enough, go 2 or 3. Then see what it does to you for mando or bass, it might make for a fine mandolin song with no capo on the mando, if you moved it all the way up to G. Just a thought. __________________ Aint nuthin like a telecaster and a tube amp.

April 7th, 2008, 10:12 AM	#15 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 9,654	Here's Johnny Cash playing it in F, using a capo, live at San Quentin... Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

April 7th, 2008, 10:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
neocaster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chester County, PA Age: 35 Posts: 3,521 11 Photos	So this meant, "You can play it in F, too..."

April 10th, 2008, 10:28 PM	#17 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	Am I the only one here that doesn't own a capo? I think I had one back when I was 7 or 8 and didn't know what a bar (yes, bar) chord was. I remember doing a session one time and somebody asked if i wanted a capo. You should have seen the looks on their faces when i said no. I've played FPB in several keys. Haven't you guys ever worked with a girl singer?

April 11th, 2008, 09:08 AM	#18 (permalink)
bad porcupine Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Age: 47 Posts: 265 9 Photos	The way I play it is the Jim Heath rockabilly-ish solo version, from some tribute album, and it's all open chord hybrid picking (as far as I can figure out anyway). So, I'd have to capo to play it that way and still hit the low notes vocally. __________________ My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. -- Vladimir Nabokov