Gibson headstocks

[otterhound]

Has Gibson ever used hide glue for the scarf joint that attaches their headstocks ?

[63dot]

The vast majority of Gibson headstocks are one piece. I had a very cheap Gibson Sonex 180 Custom and there are other cheap ones like Marauder and Challenger and it wouldn't have made sense to waste wood and make one piece headstocks. I can't tell since it was under a ton of candy apple red paint. The scarf joint, while not very common, is still a good way to go and while not one piece of wood, it doesn't make the neck weaker but probably would add some strength. It's more of a bragging point to use one piece of wood, just as it is a one piece tele body over two or three pieces.

[otterhound]

If the vast majority are one piece necks , why all the drama concerning Gibson necks and the scarf joint that attaches the headstock to the neck ?

[Turtleface]

I think most the dram lies in the inherent weakness of the angled back headstock. I just received my first Les Paul, and even Gibson acknowledges it in the product manual. Goes so far as to let you know standing the case on end is a bad idea, as even that has a decent chance of breaking the headstock.

[Nick JD]

They break because they don't use a scarf joint.

I recall gibson stopped using hide glue some time in the 60s. Gil will know.

[chezdeluxe]

Please post a pic of a Gibson neck with a scarf joint. I have never seen one.

Side note:The volute at the base of the headstock on one piece neck C F Martin guitars (Style 28 and above) is a stylistic tip of the hat to an inset headstock join from many,many years past.

[63dot]

Originally Posted by Turtleface

I think most the dram lies in the inherent weakness of the angled back headstock. I just received my first Les Paul, and even Gibson acknowledges it in the product manual. Goes so far as to let you know standing the case on end is a bad idea, as even that has a decent chance of breaking the headstock.

I don't think the Gibsons are so weak that they break in the case, but dropping them is a totally bad thing. I have been lucky with ten Gibsons over many years. I don't know how many of us have enough space, with multiple guitars, to lay them all down. There must be tons of Gibsons standing up in cases in closets and we would have definitely heard about lack of protection if that were the case.

In every case I have heard about a broken Gibson was because it fell off the player and hit the floor either on the front of the headstock or the back of the headstock first. The biggest issue more than the angle is the large amount of wood taken out near the nut for the truss rod leaving very little wood left to support the tension of the strings.

[63dot]

Even with no truss rod channel leaving more wood on front and volute adding more wood on back, brittle mahogany with angled headstock is a combination which can break. (but last three pictures show that even this can be fixed).

That type of breakage at headstock on a maple neck Fender seems almost as likely as a confirmed UFO landing on the White House lawn.

[daddyopapa]

Originally Posted by otterhound

Has Gibson ever used hide glue for the scarf joint that attaches their headstocks ?

If a Gibson has a scarf joint where the headstock is attached, it's not a Gibson. Does Epiphone use scarf joints? Regardless, it's not hide glue.

[charlie chitlin]

Epiphone uses scarf joints

[nadzab]

I dropped my LP right on the neck once. Hit my amp, it was a drop of about 3 feet, and I was afraid to look. Guess what, the neck was dented, but there was no catastrophic failure.

My SG Classic doesn't have a scarf joint, but it does have "ears" on the headstock, which I find kind of interesting.

[J.E.M.]

Originally Posted by 63dot

The vast majority of Gibson headstocks are one piece. I had a very cheap Gibson Sonex 180 Custom and there are other cheap ones like Marauder and Challenger and it wouldn't have made sense to waste wood and make one piece headstocks. I can't tell since it was under a ton of candy apple red paint. The scarf joint, while not very common, is still a good way to go and while not one piece of wood, it doesn't make the neck weaker but probably would add some strength. It's more of a bragging point to use one piece of wood, just as it is a one piece tele body over two or three pieces.

The Challenger, Marauder and Sonex have 3 piece necks (plus wings) but they do not have a scarf joint.

[63dot]

Originally Posted by J.E.M.

The Challenger, Marauder and Sonex have 3 piece necks (plus wings) but they do not have a scarf joint.

Three piece necks? Wow.

I couldn't tell and when I looked at it, I didn't see any seams running down the neck like on my three piece neck Aria Pro II. Anyway, kudos to Gibson for pulling off a three piece neck without showing through the finish. My Sonex was pretty beat up, too and it had a great sound. I miss that guitar. It also had a great sounding coil tap which didn't depress the volume too much when I went into single coil mode.

[paratus]

I had a 73 LP Deluxe, it had a three piece neck, it was pretty easy to see the seams through the finish.

[J.E.M.]

1983 Challenger, 3 piece plus wings, no scarf joint and a work of art to play, it's a regular LP neck but in maple, tough as nails...

[Abu Twangy]

Some examples:
My '70 GibsonSG 200 had a one piece maple neck with wings
'92 Gibson Les Paul definitely had a one piece mahogany neck with wings.
'04 Epi Dot had a scarf joint maple neck with a three piece headstock
'09 Epi Dot had a one piece mahogany neck with a hidden scarf joint and athree piece built up headstock
'03 Epi Joe Pass had a three piece maple neck with glued on maple wings

[Flemtone]

63DOT - Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that they can break even in the case.
My 74 Deluxe fell over in the case. It was being kept by a friend, I wasn't there so I don't know how hard it hit the floor, but it still broke.
They did the right thing by me, though. Got it professionally repaired immediately, and now you almost have to know it's there to see the crack.