The Gretsch 5120 and Me

[jonkay1]

Lately I had a hankerin' for a hollowbody jazz guitar, and I wanted it to be a Gretsch, because I've always liked the looks, and sound. Real Gretsch guitars cost thousands of dollars. The Gretsch 5120 was only $750, and is made in Korea. It played great in the store, and I figured how bad could it be? I bought it, took it home and within hours it started fretting out badly. No amount of truss rod adjustment solved the issue, so I raised the action at the bridge. This helped briefly, but it started fretting out again. I raised the action again. Eventually the bridge was reaching the top of the pegs. Then I noticed that the strings were pulling to one side. I then realized that the Bigsby tailpeice was not centered on the guitar. It was off by about 5/16ths.
I took it back. I still wanted the Gretsch, so I had the store return it as a defect and ordered a replacement. Three weeks later the replacement arrives and it frets out right out of the box. The Bigsby arm only had about an inch or less of travel. Maybe they are not all like that, but here are two instances of instruments that should never have gotten past quality control. I had the store refund my money and did a little online shopping. I ended up ordering a Hagstrom HJ 500, which very much resembles a Gibson ES 175. It cost a grand and is made in China. I am anxiously awaiting for UPS to deliver it. I've read many reviews from people who were delighted with their Gretsch 5120 guitars. I wish I would've been one of them.

[spayne99]

I got a new Pro Jet G5435 recently that I'm thrilled with. I didn't get a Bigsby though, I like to keep things simple without a lot of moving parts. Too bad to hear about yours. I'm really into the Hagstroms too, I could see myself getting one someday.

[Mad Kiwi]

Jonkay, I had a gretsch 5120 shipped over from the US and it was set up and plays like butter. I agree the bigsby arm could be a bit higher, but the playing and neck ...amazing. I can't quite recall if it was new from Pro Guitar shop or a used one from Musicians Friend ( I suspect Pro Guitar shop because my Fender Jag HH from them arrived setup amazingly as well....)

I also ended up masking and painting faux F hole binding on it and deglossing it slightly...the finish is amazing but for some reason it looks too new and shiny (I have NEVER done this to any of my other new guitars though...) any way the guitar looks fantastic now....but....

I REALLY dislike the pickups. Which is odd because I can usually get or appreciate a sound from any guitar but these are just bleech (to me).

Have some GFS Liverpools to try in it otherwise I will bite the bullet and order some Retrotrons. The guitar plays so nice it is worth it....

I think the spring is the culpret for the low arm height, I am on a mission to find a taller spring. Looks like an engine valve spring is of a similar size......

Interested to hear how you get on.....

EDIT: oops just read your last sentance..how did i miss that? Anyway, cool you are happy with what you got. Maybe give Pro guitar shop a call next time. Perhaps I got lucky but it seems (to me at least) they do a good job of checking before they ship...

[purpletele]

If your Bigsby was only off by 5/16th of an inch your bridge could have corrected that. Also, the Bigsby is secured at the strap button. It may have just needed unscrewed and re-seated.

If it played nice in the store though and you noticed after a few attempts at setting the relief I'm guessing you just may have had a bad case of neeeding to step back for a few minutes and try again later. It happens to the best of us. I set up all my guitars and have for years, but every once and a while there's one I'll wrestle with. I usually call my friend and let him have a go at it (as he does the same with me). Usually does the trick. Sometimes our own habits and knowledge are our own worst enemy.

As far as the Bigsby arm on the replacement. Some Gretsches are shipped with the vintage shorter spring and some have the longer one which allows for more bending room. The place I bought mine at switched it out for free. I really dislike the small spring, it's almost not worth using.

I wish you would have posted about this before you discounted the Gretsch. I think we could have talked you through this one and you would still have a pretty sweet guitar. Those Hagstroms are nice too, so I'm not going to say that was a bad decision either.

[jonkay1]

Not so. I would center the bridge, but there was enough tension on the strings that the bridge would shift off center. I corrected it several times. 5/16ths doesn't sound like much, but it had a significant impact on the geometry of the guitar. Using a precision ruler that showed gradients of 1/16th and 1/32, I determined that the hole drilled for the tailpiece was indeed off center. Both guitars had an annoying vibration, like the body was resonating. I determined that this was caused by string vibration after it crossed the bridge. There was almost no break angle pulling down towards the Bigsby. The strings were almost horizontal. This problem could be remedied by a piece of foam or rubber wrapped around the strings, but it should not have been necessary if the guitar was built properly.

[purpletele]

That vibration is caused by the bottom of the bidge not being radiased the same curve as the body. that' s why many put foam or tape under the bridge. You can also use a piece of sandpaper facing up and slowly form the curve. I think Stew mac sells tools to do it too if you don't want to put sandpaper on your guitar, which I don't.

[jonkay1]

Actually, as I already explained, it was the strings on the tail side of the bridge causing the vibration. When I put my hand on the strings, the vibration stopped. The Bigsby should have had a tension bar to increase the break angle of the strings. The bridge itself seemed to fit the curvature of the top just fine

[jonkay1]

I forgot to mention that I took the first Gretsch to my favorite luthier/guitar tech after my efforts failed. He actually worked for Fender Musical Instruments. He did what he could with it, and suggested that I take it back and get a refund. He had unkind things to say about that guitar, which I will not repeat. But I still wanted a Gretsch, so ever hopeful, I opted for a replacement, which turned out to be shoddy as well.

[purpletele]

This is the tool I was talking about.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...tting_Jig.html

Unless the shop did it already or the guitar was used it wasn't likely to be a perfect fit. The two far sides will float just above the the curve of the top usually. The very low break angle that Gretsches and other Bigsby equipped guitars adds to the problem by not having sufficient downward pressure to stop the extra space from rattling. This isn't for the sake of argument, but for the sake of educating those reading or searching the thread in the future.

[Big_Bend]

I'm very sorry you've had problems with your Gretsch. I was not impressed with the Gretsch 5120s either tho, and my guitar tech said for those guitars the "G" was silent.

For about $1200 or so you can start finding good deals on used Gretsch guitars. I actually picked up a 6119 Tennessee Rose on CL for < $1000 awhile back which I love. Perhaps you can just be more patient and wait and see until the right deal comes along.

Good luck!

[swellsmd]

Hmmmmm, not had a problem with mine. Maybe I got lucky. I did swap the pups though.

[charlie chitlin]

Love mine.
Gig it regularly.
Swapping in some Dynas soon.
Sorry yours were dogs.

[jonkay1]

Well yes, I am sorry that the Gretsch guitars did not meet my expectations. The main issue with them was how badly they fretted out. The strings choked everywhere starting at the 7th fret. I would raise the bridge...problem solved. After a while, the problem returned. I would raise the bridge a little more, and then yet again. Eventually I had the bridge raised to the top of the posts. Not only did it still fret out, it also looked odd. I'm glad that some Gretsch 5120 owners are having no problems. I've moved on, I think. I have high hopes for the Hagstrom jazz box I've ordered. Based on the photos I've seen, the headstock looks far more elegant than the 5120. The tuners are much nicer, as is the Bigsby vibrato with an extended arm and a tension bar. The Bigsby is adorned with the Hagstrom crest or coat of arms. Hope that it plays and sounds as good as it looks.

[paratus]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, hope your Hagstrom does the trick for you.

I got a great deal on my 5120, so I could afford to add a Compton bridge and some Surf 90 pups. Had the frets leveled and dressed. Swapped out the selector switch and added a LP jack plate and she is now a real player.

[charlie chitlin]

Originally Posted by jonkay1

The main issue with them was how badly they fretted out. The strings choked everywhere starting at the 7th fret. I would raise the bridge...problem solved. After a while, the problem returned. I would raise the bridge a little more, and then yet again.

That's a weird one, alright.
Hard to imagine what could make the results of setting the bridge change like that.
And 2 of them in a row...
Oh, well....
Hope your Hag works out.

[teleforumnoob]

I got one off the rack at GC a few months ago.
Played great in the store and still does.