Which Jazz guitar should I get

[Twinkie]

I have four vintage Gibson Archtops, a 51 L-5C, a 52 ES 350, a 53 ES 175, and a 56 ES 350T. These are all great guitar and have some variation in application.

The L5 is perhaps the most versatility with its acoustic properties, tops for laying down the "Swing Line". The 350 is built like a tank, more of an electric guitar with a heavy maple ply top. The 175 from this era is a great little guitar with a thinner ply top than what you would find on the mid 60s and later variant. The 350T is really different, being what I refer too as "Lady Size".

Okay, so that brings me to a few fair points. Some "Jazz" guitars lend themselves more to acoustic "Swing" while other sever better in the role of Bebop and Fusion; like even a Telecaster. Spruce top vs. Ply top, which is better suited to the music you want to play?

Scale length is also something to consider with the respect to what kind of Jazz you are wanting to play. My first Jazz Box was my 175. It actually worked pretty well for playing Swing (via of the light ply top) and Bebop along with Blues and other stuff. I still consider a very versatile guitar. However, later on when i started playing more chord harmony stuff, with shorter 24 3/4" scale, I found myself needing more space higher up the neck. Even though, we taking about an additional 3/4" with my L5 or 350, it makes a lot of difference in what I can play.

But enough about the vintage stuff, it costs a lot money. A great guitar for the money is either the Epiphone Emperor Regent or Broadway. The go for about $700 to $750 new and if you keep a lookout, you can find a used Regent for about $500. I don't recommend the Epiphone Joe Pass II model. My friend Marik had one of those guitars and can't say I like the feel of it. Come to think of it, Marik didn't like it either.

Anyway the Regent is a good guitar. I keep mine at the office for that home away from home feeling. The Broadway models that I have tried out are just as good.

Happy hunting. You're love playing Jazz.

[MickM]

Gibson 335, 345, 347, 355 etc.

[63dot]

Epiphone Joe Pass ($600 USD/$557 AUD)
Ibanez Artcore Custom 105/125 ($900-$1000 USD)
Godin 5th Avenue series ($600-$1000 USD)

These are all great deals for a solid jazz guitar in the midrange price point. Higher end ones are the Gibson 175s and Heritage jazz boxes. If you are getting into jazz for first time, a 175 is very expensive if you ultimately decide jazz (and strong sight reading) is not for you.

[Vladimir]

I'd recommend something from the Ibanez Artcore Custom range (better wood, pickups, fine detail)

As far as Guild is concerned, didn't they stop making electrics alltogether a couple of years ago?

[jbdrumbo]

Originally Posted by teleon

Love the 175, just got around to taking some pics:

What a nice looking Tele.

[danieljaypark]

50's ES-125!!!!!!!!! Nice, pretty, affordable, and who would not want a vintage Gibson!!! PLEASE check out Martijn Van Iterson! Get's some of the best jazz tones ever! I love me some P90's for jazz!!!

[DeepSouth]

Wow there is a lot of information here to digest and I'm working through it.

Probably the comment that disturbed (and challenged) me the most was the one by 63dot about sight reading which is definitely not my forte. I'm very much an ear based muso - but I know where you are coming from. My former teachers were session musicians who you could give a sheet of music to and they could just play it from the notes. At one stage I could do a fair job of reading music for Piano but even then I'd hear the piece and just play by ear after going over it a few times. I do wonder if I can pick that particular skill up now at my age. I can tell you the notes on a sheet of music and work it out slowly but fluent sight reading is beyond my level of incompetence

Mostly my experience is that I have found that most popular guitar music and blues etc is severely lacking after being rendered on a printed page but I understand Jazz is like university and blues is only like high school as I think BB King once said...

I have sourced a place I can try a Godin that is a little closer to home and I also know a place where I can get a 175.

At the moment I probably do 2-3 hours practice a day but it's mostly mechanical technical exercises while I watch the television. So my technique is pretty good but my practical application of obscure Jazz scales/modes and theory is poor. I've always had a gift for listening to most records and working out what is being played pretty quickly. Jazz has mostly but not entirely eluded me but I don't want to pass this life without applying myself to learning it. I certainly enjoy listening to it.

Anyway I am going through the brands and models mentioned by everyone and checking them out systematically - I appreciate everyone's thoughts - plenty of insight and experience to ponder there. Thank you all very much.

Your guitar is a thing of beauty Teleon - I bet it plays and sounds as good as it looks! and as for Twinkie - you are just plain spoilt

[DeepSouth]

Originally Posted by danieljaypark

PLEASE check out Martijn Van Iterson! Get's some of the best jazz tones ever!

Martijn Van Iterson is an unbelievable player. When you hear guys of that calibre it makes you wonder why people listen to that awful stuff on the radio.

When I was about your age I also liked listening to stuff like that - my friends just didn't get it - but I've had a life of listening and playing some really great music so I don't regret it one bit.

[Cat MacKinnon]

one of the reasons i recommended the Godin's is because, at least from what i've seen personally, their quality is generally better than a lot of the current Gibson factory stuff. Gibby in general has been really hit or miss the past few years, especially for the premium price. i actually think that, since they've opened their own factory, the latest Chinese Epi's can certainly hold their own, at a MUCH lower price. this is my own personal opinion, but...i don't think Henry J. is doing Gibson any favors at this point, and with their recent acquisition of the Stanton Group (Stanton/KRK/Cerwin-Vega/etc), i see them starting to repeat their cycle of neglecting their guitar business and trying to be too many things to too many markets. it's like when they bought out Steinberger, or Trace or Oberheim and did a spectacular job of running those brands into the ground while their guitar quality suffered. but i digress...

anyways, the Godin's have laminated tops and backs, but so do $5000 Gibson's...for the Godin's $995 price point, that's pretty acceptable, but not for a $5k guitar. and remember, MANY of the jazz greats played guitars with laminated top/sides/back. i don't think it's quite as important as it is with purely acoustic guitars, and it does lend quite a bit of stability and durability to the guitar. you'd be hard-pressed to find a jazz box with a solid top, back and sides at a price that won't require you to take out another mortgage on your house!

i was almost going to recommend Heritage guitars too, but they've had some internal company issues over the past few years and i'm not sure how their production is going. i suppose the OP could certainly check with them, and if he just had to have a very Gibson-esque guitar, Heritage would be a great choice. i'm also not sure what their lead times are, since they have a pretty low output anyway (and also only one Aussie dealer, at least according to their website.) but if the OP comes across some Heritage guitars in his price range, i'd DEFINITELY recommend he check them out! they're just really hard to get your hands on, even in the US. then again, they also have laminated tops and backs, and run close to 3x as much as a comparable Godin, so it's not a cheap option.

i'm not a jazz player, but i LOVE hollowbodies (over the past couple years, i've just fallen in love with the things). i know that a real premium jazz box is going to cost as much as a car, but as far as "things i can actually afford", i always come back to the Godins: they're made in North America, have a great reputation for quality, and the price is right (in fact it's often less expensive than one of the Korean imports!) plus, the Godins come with that cool "TRIC" case, which is a hardshell case made out of expanded polystyrene (kinda like the stuff they make bicycle helmets out of...and it floats!)

hollowbodies tend to be one of those guitars that people either really love playing, or just have a frustrating time with; at least with the Godin, if the OP ends up not loving the whole jazz guitar thing, he's not out a few thousand dollars and at the same time, he's not going to be starting out with a potentially sub-par instrument, either. i can't say that for too many other brands, especially when it comes to jazz guitars or hollowbodies (not counting great old vintage guitars that he might find for a steal, which would be even better!)

@DeepSouth : Godin has videos on their website for most of their hollowbodies, but there are more on YouTube that i've found as well. like i said a couple paragraphs back, i'm not a jazz player, and that's why i was drawn to the Kingpin II (those two P-90's can certainly do jazz, but i cranked that thing for a grindy tone and it was AWE-SOME! it also does rockabilly really well.) having said that, even though the other 5th Avenue series are a bit different in materials, i'm sure the quality is just as good as that Kingpin II. i've also always been very impressed with Godin's pickups: they sound like they've spent quite a bit of time developing them, instead of just sticking some no-name imports in their guitars (yeah, they make their own pickups, too!) i've been very impressed with Godin's electronics quality, and i certainly don't think you'll need to do any upgrades or pickup swaps.

oh, and there are quite a few well-known musicians that play Godins: Jon Anderson (Yes), Frank Black (Pixies), Win Butler (Arcade Fire), Nels Cline (Wilco), a bunch of Cirque du Soleil musicians (they ARE both from Quebec, after all;), Al DiMeola, Robin Finck & Danny Lohner (NIN), Gipsy Kings, Rik Emmett (he actually plays the 5th Avenue Jazz model these days), Tony Iommi (Black Sabbath), Brian May (Queen)...i could go on and on, but this is a just a handful of the musicians that play some kind of Godin, so you'd be in good company!

[jvanoort]

May I ask what you're looking for in a jazz box that you can't find in, say, a tele?
I always felt that jazz and blues where two musical styles where the specific type of guitar was least important.

[DeepSouth]

Thanks for all the info Cat!

I'm going to check out the Godin's and I've been reading up on Heritage guitars tonight after Joe-bob's tip off further up. From what I can see some people actually prefer the laminated tops supposedly because they help reduce some of the resonance induced feedback that solid tops can cause. I am only going off what they are saying because I have no experience of hollow body electrics to speak of. The Heritages also look pretty worthy but the price at the Australian distributor is pretty close to the Gibson. About all I can do is try all the options out see what I think.

jvanoort - I agree with you especially re: the blues. I have tele's, strats, Les Paul's and a nice electric maton acoustic. The blues sounds great on all of them. Actually I find the tone of the different instruments inspires me to play them a bit differently and makes me think of different things when I'm improvising. I have to say I prefer the sound of my Strat's and Tele's over my Les Paul for electric hard hitting blues - but that's just me... I like my acoustic for country finger picking blues - like Roy Bookbinder, Rev Gary Davis - Lightning Hopkins etc stuff

There was one comment that Ike Isaacs said to me that still rings in my ears well over 20 years later. He said something to the effect of - get yourself a better guitar. At that point I was still playing a Vantage double cutaway (my first guitar my parents bought me). I didn't think it really mattered what I was playing either.

To this day I don't know why it really matters - but I guess listening to the tone of a Gibson 175 or suchlike it certainly has a distinct sound. I can come close the tone on my other guitars by turning the tone knob down but I can't really get quite the same sort of sound.

I'm intrigued to know how they will play under my fingers and whether the feel and tone will inspire me to play and practice jazz standards etc.

Also lastly I'm a sucker for classic guitars... Call me a sick puppy

[jvanoort]

Fair enough. I'd love to own a 175, or perhaps a 135 as they are a little more versatile.
Epiphone has a ES-175 copy too...

That being said I always got nice jazzy tones out of my Baja tele's neck pickup, but nothing I own sounds more jazzy than the neck pickup on my new Musicman Axis Sport with P90's

[Fred.T]

http://www.ariausa.com/guitars/fa71.html

(and there's one in classifieds i think)

[jazztele]

Originally Posted by DeepSouth

Wow there is a lot of information here to digest and I'm working through it.

Probably the comment that disturbed (and challenged) me the most was the one by 63dot about sight reading which is definitely not my forte. I'm very much an ear based muso - but I know where you are coming from. My former teachers were session musicians who you could give a sheet of music to and they could just play it from the notes. At one stage I could do a fair job of reading music for Piano but even then I'd hear the piece and just play by ear after going over it a few times. I do wonder if I can pick that particular skill up now at my age. I can tell you the notes on a sheet of music and work it out slowly but fluent sight reading is beyond my level of incompetence

:

it can certainly be learned...you're gonna need it...unless you have a superhuman ear.


put the scales and modes away. Learn tunes, chords, and arpeggios. Know the fretboard inside out...every chord you learn, learn in at least four different places on the neck. then learn the arpeggios that go with it.

jazz is not about scales, at least up until 1959...and jazz after '59 is not what you should start with.

Please seriously consider my advice about learning a bit on what you have before you buy a new guitar. There's so many different kinds of jazz box out there...you really need to figure out what sound you like before you buy. there's a lot of folks in this thread just telling you what guitar they like, which is cool, but it's just giving you a list...you need to research sounds, not guitars.

Originally Posted by jvanoort

May I ask what you're looking for in a jazz box that you can't find in, say, a tele?
I always felt that jazz and blues where two musical styles where the specific type of guitar was least important.

Plugged in on record, pretty much....but once you play an archtop you know there's nothing like them. not better or worse, but definitely unique.

[mabley123]

heres roy buchanan playing jazz on a tele. with jazz guitar player mundell lowe. this is great. beautiful. listen to the great bends. mmmaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn. this song kills me. i could listen to it all day.
to bad roy didnt even make the top 100 in rolling stone. i dont get it.

the gibson L5 is hard to beat for jazz.

http://youtu.be/c5_kkK8Y2Ts

[Oakville Dave]

This Eastman looks great, I just read in another thread that it streets for about $700.


http://www.eastmanguitars.com/ar371ce/

[Oakville Dave]

One of the greatest jazz players is Canadian Ed Bickert, and he plays a Telecaster with his eyes closed!!

[rsclosson]

Originally Posted by Oakville Dave

This Eastman looks great, I just read in another thread that it streets for about $700.


http://www.eastmanguitars.com/ar371ce/

I have one of these on the way. I will report on it soon after I get it. The reviews say that it is a LOT of bang for the buck!

[Berek Halfhand]

Don't overlook the Dean Palomino. Body like a 175, Three P-90s. I used it last year in the jazz big band I am in. Roll off the treble on the neck pup and it makes a nice warm jazz tone. Also have lots of other tone choices available for "Jump, Jive, and Wail", etc.

[63dot]

It's true that Gibson has had troubles at times (unfortunately now is one of them) so if the Epi Joe Pass, Ibanez Artcores, and Godins don't do it for you are are too budget, go the next step up (but in the same pricing range as Gibson's 175 which is $3500 USD).

Ibanez George Benson GB-10 with mini humbuckers, $3200,
Ibanez George Benson GB200 full sized hollowbody/standard humbuckers, $3800
Epiphone 1965 reissue Elitist Casino, $1800
Yamaha SA220, $2300
D'Aquisto, starting at a whopping $4200 but these are the best custom guitars

Realize this is the midrange but the upper range consists of Gibson Super 400, Gibson L-5, and Ibanez George Benson GB-30 all in the $10,000 dollar range.