Is it possible for an acoustic guitar with jumbo frets to play in tune? I don't think

[thefees]

Ok here is my beef. I stringed up my acoustic guitar. I was in one of those moods where I wanted to break free from conventional thinking, and see if something was true myself. So I placed Ernie Ball Extra Light Gauge .008's on my old Cort acoustic. I was shocked when it played so loud. What did they mean when they said you need heavy gauge strings to get sound out of it?

Then I set the truss rod and action and was amazed at how good the action was for an acoustic with the now lighter strings on it. (I was using 10's all along) Then I noticed an anomalie. With jumbo frets you can press down on a note, and if you squeeze the neck harder the string stretches so to speak between the two frets raising the pitch of the note. It can actually create a tremolo effect without moving the neck, just within the two frets, as in squeeze, lighten up, squeeze lighten up.

Well this effect is so strong that when you play chords with any kind of squeeze the chord is out of tune. If you magically have just the right amount of light touch across the whole chord you can get an in tune chord.
So is this normal with all acoustics?

I figured if I beefed it back up with heavier gauge strings it would remove some of the sensitivity of how far the string gets moved down in between the two frets. A super heavy gauge string would be a lot easier to just squeeze the chord and only get to the first milli-inch into it giving you more consistency.

So my question is does anyone else notice this?
Here is the test. Take your acoustic and if you have a digital tuner, tune the open string perfectly, for example to an E and then fret the guitar on the 12th fret and see if you still get an E. How about on the other frets closer to the nut? Do you get them accurately like a G, or A, or C?

I know there isn't an adjustable bridge on acoustics so you are kind of stuck with the intonation, or am I missing something there as well?

I just completely setup one of my Tele's, and Strat and get absolutely chiming perfect harmony chords anywhere along the entire neck. The frets are a rats hair off of the fingerboard so you are not stretching them when you press them down. I can squeeze a single note also and it comes up true on the digital tuner anywhere on the neck. On the acoustic on a finer level you can tell it is out of tune when you form a chord. It's not like gross garbage it is just not ringing like chimes perfectly in tune. Ok it is out enough that it bothers me, rendering the guitar somewhat unusable otherwise I wouldn't be creating this book about the problem, looking for help.

I am convinced that I have to start edging up the heavier gauge string line, but wanted to get some edification out of my fellow Tele forum people. Any input is appreciated.

[ITSGOTQUACK]

Well, it sounds like you strung up a very cheap acoustic with electric strings and your very likely have an unwound G string on there which will further destroy any chances of you coming close to being in tune. So, let us know if you actually located a set acoustic 8's or if you indeed are using electric strings on there and verify the wound or unwound G string thing.

[Strat62]

The phenomenon you describe is something that is just a fact of life in playing guitar. It is more noticable with lighter gauge strings, whether acoustic or electric. Moderating your grip is part of your technique; keep playing-you'll get it.

[weezy109]

Lighter strings on an acoustic just have this really "plinky" type sound that i hate beyond reproach. You can compensate for that with an electric but your naked, so to speak, with an acoustic. Maybe i have pre-concieved notions about an imaginary sound but i hear it and hate it. As for the tuning problem, yeah id say this would be prevalent on an acoustic for sure and maybe on an electric too with those 8's, have to ask Billy G i guess.

[thefees]

Originally Posted by ITSGOTQUACK

Well, it sounds like you strung up a very cheap acoustic with electric strings and your very likely have an unwound G string on there which will further destroy any chances of you coming close to being in tune. So, let us know if you actually located a set acoustic 8's or if you indeed are using electric strings on there and verify the wound or unwound G string thing.

You're spot on with your assessment. It is an old Cort acoustic that I paid about 200 dollars for back in I think the late 70's. It has a solid spruce top and solid rosewood back and sides, and sounds and plays great but it is a cheapy. Yes the G string is unwound. I haven't found acoustic 8's or even acoustic 9's for that matter. I went in late last night and picked it up and did some light strumming and fingering and it sounded beautiful, but I was afraid to play out of the box, as in stronger.

[thefees]

Originally Posted by Strat62

The phenomenon you describe is something that is just a fact of life in playing guitar. It is more noticable with lighter gauge strings, whether acoustic or electric. Moderating your grip is part of your technique; keep playing-you'll get it.

Thank you for the input. I immediately went over to my Tele's and Strats and checked them for even the tiniest affect that way and they do not do it at all. I do however buy Tele's with the late 60 smaller frets. I used a tuner on the open string and the 12th fret and they are spot on (intonation) no matter how I press on the string. I have been playing guitar for 40 years and never gave this much thought before. I definitely will have to go to a heavier gauge string. I want to try 9's next.

[thefees]

Originally Posted by weezy109

Lighter strings on an acoustic just have this really "plinky" type sound that i hate beyond reproach. You can compensate for that with an electric but your naked, so to speak, with an acoustic. Maybe i have pre-concieved notions about an imaginary sound but i hear it and hate it. As for the tuning problem, yeah id say this would be prevalent on an acoustic for sure and maybe on an electric too with those 8's, have to ask Billy G i guess.

You are so right about the plinky sound. I just hate fighting heavier gauge strings. I have been using acoustic 10's all along and found them just fine. I thought I would go out of the box and try to make the acoustic a semi-electric. It moved a little in that direction but not really. By the way who is Billy G? Just curious.

[Strat62]

Originally Posted by thefees

Thank you for the input. I immediately went over to my Tele's and Strats and checked them for even the tiniest affect that way and they do not do it at all. I do however buy Tele's with the late 60 smaller frets. I used a tuner on the open string and the 12th fret and they are spot on (intonation) no matter how I press on the string. I have been playing guitar for 40 years and never gave this much thought before. I definitely will have to go to a heavier gauge string. I want to try 9's next.

Most of my guitars have the modern jumbo frets where this can be a problem. It true that it's not so noticable at all on the vintage style frets, of which I have a few examples.

[rjones652]

a) I'm guessing you don't play a scalloped neck...

b) thinner bends easier...strings, wimmens, whatevs...you're in the Elastic Regime.

c) get a grip on your grip ... control is good. Just think of...no wait, don't think of that.

All said in a positve manner, you understand.

[Mark Davis]

Guys that have 8-9's on elctrics with jumbos have the same problem we see messages weekly from people having tuning probs and setting intonation cause they are pressing down to hard.

All you have to do is press down the string so it makes contact with the fret you dont have to smash it against the fretboard.

[Big Burly]

If you ARE guilty of having the "gorilla grip" and just can't lighten up, make your frets lower by leveling and re-crowning them. That is essentially what Gibson did in the 50s with the supposed "fretless wonder" Les Paul guitars. They were still wide frets, but they were low, so it felt fretless because your fingers touched the fretboard.

Billy Gibbons gets away with the super-light 7 and 8 gauge strings by having a feather-light touch.

[DOGMA Dunn]

Originally Posted by thefees

Ok here is my beef. I stringed up my acoustic guitar. I was in one of those moods where I wanted to break free from conventional thinking, and see if something was true myself. So I placed Ernie Ball Extra Light Gauge .008's on my old Cort acoustic. I was shocked when it played so loud. What did they mean when they said you need heavy gauge strings to get sound out of it?

Then I set the truss rod and action and was amazed at how good the action was for an acoustic with the now lighter strings on it. (I was using 10's all along) Then I noticed an anomalie. With jumbo frets you can press down on a note, and if you squeeze the neck harder the string stretches so to speak between the two frets raising the pitch of the note. It can actually create a tremolo effect without moving the neck, just within the two frets, as in squeeze, lighten up, squeeze lighten up.

Well this effect is so strong that when you play chords with any kind of squeeze the chord is out of tune. If you magically have just the right amount of light touch across the whole chord you can get an in tune chord.
So is this normal with all acoustics?

I figured if I beefed it back up with heavier gauge strings it would remove some of the sensitivity of how far the string gets moved down in between the two frets. A super heavy gauge string would be a lot easier to just squeeze the chord and only get to the first milli-inch into it giving you more consistency.

So my question is does anyone else notice this?
Here is the test. Take your acoustic and if you have a digital tuner, tune the open string perfectly, for example to an E and then fret the guitar on the 12th fret and see if you still get an E. How about on the other frets closer to the nut? Do you get them accurately like a G, or A, or C?

I know there isn't an adjustable bridge on acoustics so you are kind of stuck with the intonation, or am I missing something there as well?

I just completely setup one of my Tele's, and Strat and get absolutely chiming perfect harmony chords anywhere along the entire neck. The frets are a rats hair off of the fingerboard so you are not stretching them when you press them down. I can squeeze a single note also and it comes up true on the digital tuner anywhere on the neck. On the acoustic on a finer level you can tell it is out of tune when you form a chord. It's not like gross garbage it is just not ringing like chimes perfectly in tune. Ok it is out enough that it bothers me, rendering the guitar somewhat unusable otherwise I wouldn't be creating this book about the problem, looking for help.

I am convinced that I have to start edging up the heavier gauge string line, but wanted to get some edification out of my fellow Tele forum people. Any input is appreciated.

It could play in tune with 11s if the frets are tall. Depending on your style of fingerpicking tall frets can allow for great mojo ability. like a lead player who digs into his frets on electric.

[thefees]

I've succumbed to the sound or reason and picked up a set of 10's yesterday. I am going back to that. So I will need to reset the truss rod. I also noticed the intonation for example on the 12th fret was off with the way it is set for the 8's. The 10's will have me setting the truss rod back, and I hope the 12th fret intonation returns along with it.

I guess I forgot that when you use new strings they seem to flex better and of course have way better pitch and sound, so I am looking forward to having the old guitar back.

I used to think that this thing plays incredible and sounds great for a $200 guitar, and then I went in and played a $3,000+ Taylor yesterday and went, "Oh so that is how it is supposed to sound"