60s drummers

[WaylonFan76]

There's something about 1960s rock drummers that's unique. Nobody I can think of plays this way anymore. I've had this conversation with a few different musicians so I know it's not just me. There was a snappy snare playing quality that is lost now. The drummers that came after that era were more heavy handed, in my opinion ( think Bonham for example ). Is it because of the jazz influence that was sorta lost after that ?
Somebody just posted this clip in another thread and it reminded me of it. I'm sure there's better examples, but there you go:



What say you ?

[mercy]

Caused by/correlated with the increase in the use of musical distortion by guitarists 60's into the 70's?

[WaylonFan76]

Originally Posted by mercy

Caused by/correlated with the increase in the use of musical distortion by guitarists 60's into the 70's?

You might be onto something. Competing for volume...

[Telemarkman]

Dino Danelli was probably the snappiest of them all (and the best looking - in fact he was a McCartney look-alike). But then he had a jazz background (played with Lionel Hampton).
His break at the end is real worthy of a jazz drummer!

[mbennettbrown]

I always think the miking made a more 'kit' sound. The drummers weren't playing individually miked drums - they played the kit. Three microphones covered the whole mess. I simply sounds more 'natural.'

[evanrw]

I think its about traditional vs. matched grip. So does Buddy Rich.

[bigmuff113]

The specs of drums and cymbals has evolved lots over the years. Your off the shelf DWs will probably not sound like vintage Radio Kings and your 1965 Zildjian crash will sound VARY different from a modern one and is even different from a reissue

[mal paso]

Waylon hit the nail on the head with influence.






The timing didn't hurt either

[hekawi]

Originally Posted by WaylonFan76

There's something about 1960s rock drummers that's unique.

it's probably because they were all Hal Blaine.

just kidding (sort of)

[metalmayhem]

Dave Clarke from the DC5

[rangercaster]

.... Charlie Watts is one of the Rock Greats ... but at heart, he really is a jazz drummer ... who was probably bored out of his skull playing rock ...

[DrumBob]

This is a subject dear to my heart, as I wrote the book, Great Rock Drummers Of The Sixties which is now in its second printing.

It's a combination of all of the above, really. Drummers did have a stronger jazz influence by and large, they weren't playing as loudly as they are now, and the mic'ing and recording drums was different back then. It wasn't uncommon to record a drumset with one mic' overhead and maybe one on the bass drum, unlike today, where every drum is mic'd, cymbals are mic'd, etc. Many rock drummers back then did use traditional grip as well, which lends itself to a jazzier approach. You simply can't hit backbeats as hard as you can using matched. Ringo pretty much started the matched grip thing.

Guys like Dino Danelli played all sorts of gigs in the early Sixties, with all kinds of bands, so the music was varied. Ringo never played jazz per se, but his feel has a definite swing to it. Of course, Charlie Watts was and is a jazz head, and his playing reflects that. Keith Moon was the opposite; a total basher. People like Carmine Appice, John Bonham and Ian Paice were in the forefront of the harder style of playing, like it or not.

Like guitar playing, rock drumming has evolved, perhaps not for the better. Sometimes, I wish the old days would come back, when I think about how that has occurred. It hurts me to think that the practitioners of that older style of rock drumming are aging, retired like Hal Blaine, or gone.

[Skully]

Originally Posted by DrumBob

Like guitar playing, rock drumming has evolved, perhaps not for the better. Sometimes, I wish the old days would come back, when I think about how that has occurred. It hurts me to think that the practitioners of that older style of rock drumming are aging, retired like Hal Blaine, or gone.

These days, you often get drummers with great technique who can play intricate parts but have no feel or groove whatsoever. They're plodding machines. Deen Castronovo of Journey is the first one that comes to mind.

[banjohabit]

Originally Posted by Skully

These days, you often get drummers with great technique who can play intricate parts but have no feel or groove whatsoever. They're plodding machines. Deen Castronovo of Journey is the first one that comes to mind.

indeed ! i play with two different drummers every week, both in their mid-30s. the one is highly technical, very accomplished at drumming. no so much at playing music. though he certainly has dynamics,i don't know, he just has no FEEL about him.

the other guy, though not as technical, is the one you want to play with. if you happen to hear him play along with a track with his headphones on, so you can hear drums only, you can STILL plainly hear the emotion in whatever song he's playing, even without the music. he pays attention to lyrics and knows just how to highlight certain key words or phrases in the song, but with the utmost sublty. just a pleasure to play with, loud or quiet. a rare bird.

[WaylonFan76]

Originally Posted by rangercaster

.... Charlie Watts is one of the Rock Greats ... but at heart, he really is a jazz drummer ... who was probably bored out of his skull playing rock ...

Yep, good example. Very lucrative boredom, though...

[mindlobster]

Originally Posted by Skully

These days, you often get drummers with great technique who can play intricate parts but have no feel or groove whatsoever. They're plodding machines. Deen Castronovo of Journey is the first one that comes to mind.

Cough...Dream Theatre...cough...

[purpletele]

Some of my thoughts...

You used to listen to jazz and figure out how to play it or pick up tricks from it. Now kids are learning how to play jazz in school band or lessons. There's too much thinking and counting and not enough listening and feeling.

I do know drummers who still play like drummers from the 60's, but it was something they found on there own, not learned from lessons. It's definitely not a style you hear in popular music anymore. It's rare they get to play like that in their own bands even.

I don't know when drumming became more about being technical and fast than about keeping a beat and feeling the groove. Guitar is just as guilty. Some of the jazz drummers I know scoff at rock n' roll as it it is inferior caveman music. Maybe it is, but drummers used to at least try to make it interesting, not just cry about how bored they are. I was in a rock band with a jazz prodigy drummer in high school. He went on to do great things in the jazz world, but he wouldn't even practice with us because our stuff was "too easy". He would just show up and play.

Normally I don't agree with the "it was better then" topics. This one is much closer to right. Drumming is evolving into something very sterile from something that was very cool and loose.

It's true that recording techniques have changed. Buddy Rich (or whomever) would sound less live now I think, but he wouldn't sound like a "modern" drummer.

My favorite 60's drum sample.

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by purpletele

You used to listen to jazz and figure out how to play it or pick up tricks from it. Now kids are learning how to play jazz in school band or lessons. There's too much thinking and counting and not enough listening and feeling.

I agree to a certain extent. But if you're not able to "think and count", maybe you won't understand what you're listening to, or play what you feel ... ?

[purpletele]

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

I agree to a certain extent. But if you're not able to "think and count", maybe you won't understand what you're listening to, or play what you feel ... ?

You're right. It's about balance. I do think there are players who have enough intuition to play anything without technically knowing what they are playing. They are a very rare breed though.

[soul-o]

There was a really appealing musicality and inventiveness to guys like Mitch Mitchell and Ginger Baker. Mick Avory is so great in the Kinks and his drums just sound so right. And I know people tend to think of Keith Moon in his 70s, out of control period, but early on he was absolutely magical.