How are The Cult and Guns 'n Roses Heavy Metal?

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by sonny wolf

...does that mean that AC/DC lost it's 'metal' title because newer bands progressed with harder styles?

AC/DC were metal? I'd put them in "blues" before metal.

Just goes to show that genrefication is a craps shoot.

[w3stie]

I feel privileged to have grown up around this music. No one knew at the time that it was "metal", it was just heavy rock, which became heavy metal after LZ then just metal. No one had heard anything like sabbath, it was just "wow!". Now kids listen to BS and say, oh that's just metal. This process must happen all the time in music, and probably has been for centuries.

[castpolymer]

Originally Posted by Canuckcaster

The "...And Justice For All" tour Cast? I saw the same 2 bands on that tour when I was 18. The crowd reaction was similar. I too liked both bands.

CC

Yep, " ...And Justice For All " tour. I also saw Metallica with Queensryche opening on the same tour. Crowd was much more receptive to them as the openers.

[cosmiccowboy]

Originally Posted by castpolymer

Yep, " ...And Justice For All " tour. I also saw Metallica with Queensryche opening on the same tour. Crowd was much more receptive to them as the openers.

Saw this tour as well, had back stage passes for Queensryche was a great group of guys Chris DeGarma and Scott Rockenfeld were the most down to earth dudes you could imagine. Geof Tate was a dick ... huge ego,zero personality and looked like he couldn't figure out why all the little chickies weren't falling all over him (singer syndrome).


Regarding "The Cult", after hearing the album "Love" I always kinda considered them an alternative band. Even "Electric" with it's heavier sound I still felt lyrically they were rather boehemic in their approach, thus giving them that alt feel ... "Sonic Temple" somewhere in between (lost touch after that)

G&R, who cares

[Mid Life Crisis]

The Cult were a Goth band originally - they started out as Southern Death Cult, then Death Cult and finally The Cult (surprised they didn't become simply "Cult" in the end). Having said that, they were pretty heavy all the same. Their album Dreamtime has some great tracks on it that really rock, but without being rockist. When the next one Love came out they'd become much more commercial but had not quite transformed into what might be regarded as a heavy rock band yet.

[castpolymer]

Originally Posted by cosmiccowboy

Saw this tour as well, had back stage passes for Queensryche was a great group of guys Chris DeGarma and Scott Rockenfeld were the most down to earth dudes you could imagine. Geof Tate was a dick ... huge ego,zero personality and looked like he couldn't figure out why all the little chickies weren't falling all over him (singer syndrome).


Regarding "The Cult", after hearing the album "Love" I always kinda considered them an alternative band. Even "Electric" with it's heavier sound I still felt lyrically they were rather boehemic in their approach, thus giving them that alt feel ... "Sonic Temple" somewhere in between (lost touch after that)

G&R, who cares

Was that the tour where the Queensryche drummer had a kit made of what looked like welded steel chains? I had second row seats for that show and I seem to remember his kit was really cool. I also could not hear for two days after that show. Rock and roll!

[Slow Reflexes]

Listen to the Heavy Metal soundtrack and prepare to really be confused.

[Tim Armstrong]

I always laugh at genre purists. It's all music, and it all changes over time. What was metal in 1982 is different from what was metal in 1992, etc. Same thing with EVERY other kind of music. Country music has gone through so many changes over the years that what's considered country music today is NOTHING like stuff from even 20 years ago. Jazz went though a ton of changes, too.

Heck, these days when you say "metal", you then have to define which of the innumerable subgenres you mean. Norwegian Black Metal anyone?

I just call it all music, and there are two kinds: stuff I like, and the rest of it!

Tim

[w3stie]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

...
I just call it all music, and there are two kinds: ...

Tim

[63dot]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I always laugh at genre purists. It's all music, and it all changes over time. What was metal in 1982 is different from what was metal in 1992, etc. Same thing with EVERY other kind of music. Country music has gone through so many changes over the years that what's considered country music today is NOTHING like stuff from even 20 years ago. Jazz went though a ton of changes, too.

Heck, these days when you say "metal", you then have to define which of the innumerable subgenres you mean. Norwegian Black Metal anyone?

I just call it all music, and there are two kinds: stuff I like, and the rest of it!

Tim

Excellent point. In a decade or two, nobody is going to consider the Norwegian stuff metal, but call it "corporate", "safe", or "sellout". When I was growing up Ozzy Osbourne was good old hard rock with great vocals and solid songwriting and when metal became certified platinum and big everywhere, then Ozzy, Deep Purple, Aerosmith, and other hard rock pioneers got included into the tag of heavy metal.

As for country or the new wave of country, I always thought it was a lot about Johnny Cash, John Denver and the Eagles but some purist fans were against that because they were, well, popular. As country became big time and pop, people would mention Don Henley (the Eagles) as much as Hank Williams when mentioning influences. Heck, Garth Brooks owes a lot to Kiss and he knew that there was a lot of crossover in pyrotechnic shows and shameless marketing. He did a great rendition of "Hard Luck Woman" by Kiss. There's so much cross pollination and sometimes the product may not hit the mark, but often it does and if sales are any indication, music is driven by what is popular and this may put the purists in the back seat. At some point an artist will be considered an artist and not put into a narrow genre and Taylor Swift is doing a great job at knocking down walls. She stands on the shoulders of barrier destroyers like Shania Twain who got a lot of flack at first for crossover hits. Like you said, it's all music and I want to add, for the stuff we see on TV, it's also a lot about big money.

[stonemee]

I'd say they're both classed as rock now, but when guns n roses came out they were considered to be more metal. Probably because GnRs sound has softened over the years, and our idea of metal has changed too.

I don't think it really matters anyway, there's no point in classifying music too much. If you like it you like it, if you don't you don't. Slotting it into a genre won't change that.

[jazztele]

"Metal" is rock music that spent more time playing Dungeons and Dragons and practicing the guitar than chasing skirts.

At least the good stuff is.

[e-merlin]

Originally Posted by 63dot

At some point an artist will be considered an artist and not put into a narrow genre...

And we'll all live happily in peace and harmony in the land of lollypops and unicorns...

[tdu]

I think the people who listen to more extreme genres of metal, or more of a variety of it, make more of a distinction. EG I love a lot of Thrash Metal which is some really heavy metal (excuse the pun). So I find it odd when bands like G n' R and the Cult, or ACDC for that matter are called metal. I just consider them Rock n' Roll or Hard Rock. I don't think that classifies as 'genre purism' as mentioned earlier in the thread, just different perceptions.

But on any level/perception though, I don't know how the Cult could be called metal and I actually have never heard them referred to as metal. Their early material ranged from goth to alternative music. Electric while being heavier, was not a metal album. Neither were the albums after it. Then they eventually almost went to an electronic sound and, and then back to rock lol. But there is nothing they put out I would ever classify as metal. G n' R, I can understand being a grey area.

[Fearnot]

At this point in the 21st century, I think true 'metal' is rarely heard outside of leather bars, tattoo parlors, high school parking lots and sadly... Guitar Center whenever I walk in.

[Peav Gen1]

When I first got into music they had what what they would call "Rock Shows" you could have BTO, followed by the Bee Gees with Deep Purple closing it out or Earth Wind and Fire and Free on the same billing. Its all music. It blows my mind how many so called musicians can look at any one form of music and find it superior to another. My preference is loud growling ANGRY rippin guitar rock but hell we even slow down and belt out a tender Alabama tune (Feels So Right). Its for the chicks......

[ianasdfg]

This is the first heavy metal song, indeed it's where the term comes from.

The songs not that heavy either.

I guess there are ranges of metal heaviness's from alkali earth metals like Heart, to gold and silver like Zep, right up to uranium like Napalm Death.

[Stratburst]

Originally Posted by Fearnot

At this point in the 21st century, I think true 'metal' is rarely heard outside of leather bars, tattoo parlors, high school parking lots and sadly... Guitar Center whenever I walk in.

Or television:



To OP: I think a lot of people on this board aren't thinking outside their own era. Sure, The Cult and Guns n' Roses don't sound "heavy metal" when you put them next to Children of Bodom or Pantera but, compared to what was considered "metal" during the 1980's (ie: Glam Metal), they were pretty damned heavy.

It's the same thing with Led Zeppelin: they sound pretty tame now but stack them up next to other acts of the era like The Partridge Family or Three Dog Night . . .

"Metal" is rock music that spent more time playing Dungeons and Dragons and practicing the guitar than chasing skirts.

At least the good stuff is.

Then you'd love Nightwish.

[jbmando]

Yeah but Steppenwolf's line referred to the sound of a motorcycle.

This wikipedia article explains a lot about the evolution of the term "heavy metal." It didn't always mean what it usually means now.

[arnie5150]

Originally Posted by Canuckcaster

The "...And Justice For All" tour Cast? I saw the same 2 bands on that tour when I was 18. The crowd reaction was similar. I too liked both bands.

CC

I saw this tour in Jackson, Ms. Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols was on the bill as well.... WTH? The Cult did great and were well received BtW. But metal? No way...