disenchanted with Bill Lawrence

[kludge]

Originally Posted by JonesKY

"The original Tele design is an enduring classic and will always have its respected place in music history, but the improvements made over the years to bring the Tele into our "modern, high-volume, effects-heavy stage environment" are also worth serious consideration. The Tele simply wasn't designed with those factors in mind -- they didn't even exist back in 1952!"

Wasn't it Socrates who said "Necessity is the mother of invention..."?

Just because the Tele was designed 50 years ago around different musical styles shouldn't be a reason for not exploring solutions which would retain the original characteristics of the instrument! However, the answer begins with 1) defining the fundamental "Tele characteristics" sought, then 2) addressing details which may include a combination of changes instead of a single element to arrive at a desired conclusion.

For some, the "Tele" is characterized simply by body shape. For others, it comes down to the details of era-correct woods, pickups, & bridge design. And for the OCD-types, it even comes down to finishes, pickguard materials, capacitors types, 60Hz hum in all positions, etc.

IMHO... much of what makes a Tele tonally unique is the interaction between the bridge design & the pickup; moreso than even the body & fingerboard wood differences. The hardtail, barrel saddles, and diving-board design of being anchored at one end and floating on the other significantly contribute to the harmonic structure of a "Tele". That's a lot of the reason why a hardtail strat w/a baseplated bridge pickup (or even an Anderson Tele) falls short of yielding "that tone" (not that the others are necessarily "bad"...).

That said, my journey...
1) "noiseless" pups (by duncan, dimarzio, lawrence, kinman) that were noisey & microphonic because of a ferrous bridge interferring with the magnetic flux of the pickup.
2) non-ferrous Gotoh & Fender bridges w/noiseless pups for good sound, but "too solid" and harmonically "duller" - goodbye tele-tone (sounded more like my Robert Cray strat; good, but not a Tele).
3) back to std single-coil pup (many varieties & impedances) w/std bridge, for consistently good, "Tele" tone, but w/60-hz hum (all were better than 1 & 2).
4) Non-ferrous vintage-style bridge (ala Glendale) with modern stacked pup (Dimarzio, Lawrence, Kinman, etc) = "Tele" tone w/o hum. This combo (non-ferrous "vintage style" bridge + stacked pup) offers the best of both worlds, sans OCD. Can get clean twang to Dumble gain without 60hz hum.

Hope this helps a bit, and incidently... My Disclaimer: I have no endorsement with Glendale or Dimarzio.

Thanks... this is all really helpful! I'm seriously considering going the EMG route on mine, for a variety of reasons. Do you know if EMGs suffer the same problems with ferrous bridges?

[maestrovert]

No, EMG Ts do not have any of the issues of BLs or other noiseless P-ups (they're a much different design).....
i think the EMGs look fine (jes' m.h.o.) but i would like to see the T set's neck P-up with mylar/chrome covers -like these Strat covers from All Parts- part # pc 0406-010.......the EMG Ts are available in white & ivory/creme also....

i know y'all are probably sick of hearin' it but, they are (i.m.v.h.o.) the absolute best Tele P-ups on the planet, bar none.

i've no affiliation, and no interest other than in my tone.....

y.m.m.v.

[AA4GA]

I've got a MIM Tele that's 4 or 5 years old. The bridge is one of the flat modern 6-saddle bridges - I just checked and it's ferrous. Any problems with the BL p'ups with this bridge?

[spankdplank]

I recently put BL Keystones in a tele partscaster with a ferrous ashtray bridge and they sound fantastic (photos in my gallary). Not noiseless but much quieter than any other true single coil I have ever used. No feedback problems even when playing with high gain and high volume, and lots of tele sparkle and snap. I also put a chrome cover on the Keystone neck pickup and it still sounds snappy, and is less likely to be damaged. FYI--GFS sells a vintage looking ashtray bridge with three brass barrels that has a non-ferrous plate portion made from aluminum, for about $20. That may be an easy/cheap solution for people with vintage style ashtrays and the BL/bridge/feedback issues discussed above.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by spankdplank

I recently put BL Keystones in a tele partscaster with a ferrous ashtray bridge and they sound fantastic (photos in my gallary). Not noiseless but much quieter than any other true single coil I have ever used. No feedback problems even when playing with high gain and high volume, and lots of tele sparkle and snap. I also put a chrome cover on the Keystone neck pickup and it still sounds snappy, and is less likely to be damaged. FYI--GFS sells a vintage looking ashtray bridge with three brass barrels that has a non-ferrous plate portion made from aluminum, for about $20. That may be an easy/cheap solution for people with vintage style ashtrays and the BL/bridge/feedback issues discussed above.

I do agree with you on the sparkle and the beautiful tone that Bill created with his Keystones. I really love them pups. I of course wished they were a wee bit quieter but sacrifices have to be made sometimes to obtain a certain sound.

Spank, where did you get your chrome cover from??

I wonder what would happen if I wound string around my Keystone Bridge and gave it a wax dip?

Becky??

Here is one little trick I have used to get that traditional Tele look from an EMG SAV pickup.

SAV are made for a Strat

What I did was get the Tele base plate from stew mac for a bridge pup. I then used a HOT glue gun to secure the pup to the plate.
Oh and first you have to break off the Strat mount plastic on the ends.



However this is where the mod takes a turn for the ugly. The EMG T neck pup is not chrome. So it still has the ugly non traditional look.

And truly this pup is for a Strat sound and not a Tele. If EMG would just make a traditional T or TC set using the exposed pole and chrome look it would really be cool.

[JonesKY]

Originally Posted by AA4GA

I've got a MIM Tele that's 4 or 5 years old. The bridge is one of the flat modern 6-saddle bridges - I just checked and it's ferrous. Any problems with the BL p'ups with this bridge?

More than likely, yes - the ferrous plate interferes with the magnetic properties of the humbucking design (for BL, Dimarzio, & Kinman designs). The result tends to be a good sounding pickup that's about as noisy as a standard single-coil. For some reason the problem tend to exhibit an increased microphonic characteristic, too. So... if you're using the pickup for tone, it may not matter; however, if you're using a stacked pup for tone AND hum cancelling AND modern, non-microphonic characteristics, then you ought to change the bridge to non-ferrous (preferable vintage style, as that affects the tone considerably, too).

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by AA4GA

I've got a MIM Tele that's 4 or 5 years old. The bridge is one of the flat modern 6-saddle bridges - I just checked and it's ferrous. Any problems with the BL p'ups with this bridge?

Some of those can actually be misleading. I have a MIM bridge that is definitely brass (I machined it to accept a 3 saddle setup - definitely brass in there), but is plated heavily enough that a magnet will stick to it quite easily.

If you know for certain that it is the stock bridge that is vibrating, there are plenty of tricks to try, such as a thin coat of wax to the underside, or very thin neoprene on the front end of the underside, use rubber cement to hold it on.

I've only had one bridge pup that I couldn't tame: a Fender Texas Special Tele. After trying everything, I came to the conclusion that there must have been a void in the potted winding. I actually got another one in a swap, and no microphonics.

There are a lot of aftermarket bridge assemblies out there that are quite affordable, if you aren't stuck on certain attributes of the original Tele bridge.
You don't have to settle for the Allparts/Gotoh style brass bridge any more.

[editorjuno]

Originally Posted by AA4GA

I've got a MIM Tele that's 4 or 5 years old. The bridge is one of the flat modern 6-saddle bridges - I just checked and it's ferrous. Any problems with the BL p'ups with this bridge?

My younger son had an L-290TLE (slightly higher-inductance L-290TL) in his MIM Standard with the stock bridge for about a year and he had no squealing problems at all -- offhand I'd say that bridge is too thick and heavy to behave like a traditional "ashtray" type. He eventually replaced his bridge with a Gotoh chromed brass model -- imo that change made pretty much no difference playing through his amp, but it did reduce some remaining (non-pickup) hum when he listens via headphones.

[AA4GA]

I'm mostly interested in hum reduction...obviously I want p'ups with decent tone as well. From what I've read I think I'm going to decide between a BL noiseless set or DiMarzio Area-Ts. I usually use a fairly clean tone, so maybe the microphonics won't be a problem...I don't really *want* to change out the bridge, but I'm not completely against it either.

[AA4GA]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

Some of those can actually be misleading. I have a MIM bridge that is definitely brass (I machined it to accept a 3 saddle setup - definitely brass in there), but is plated heavily enough that a magnet will stick to it quite easily.

From a magnetic/electrical viewpoint, wouldn't that make it effectively the same as a ferrous bridge?

[mark norwine]

Originally Posted by AA4GA

I'm mostly interested in hum reduction...

Drop in some Joe Bardens and be done with it.....

[AA4GA]

Thought about it...$360 for the pair is a bit more than I'd like to put in the MIM! Although I've played a few guitars with the Bardens, and do like 'em just fine.

I'm wondering now if the worst of my hum is actually from my amp...I tried my guitar in someone else's amp today and the noise was tolerable. But that's another problem to work on...

[kludge]

Originally Posted by AA4GA

Thought about it...$360 for the pair is a bit more than I'd like to put in the MIM! Although I've played a few guitars with the Bardens, and do like 'em just fine.

I'm wondering now if the worst of my hum is actually from my amp...I tried my guitar in someone else's amp today and the noise was tolerable. But that's another problem to work on...

Was the other amp in the same room? Or even a different place in the same room? In my experience, hum can vary wildly depending on where you're standing.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by AA4GA

From a magnetic/electrical viewpoint, wouldn't that make it effectively the same as a ferrous bridge?

I've heard it argued both ways, but for me, if a magnet sticks to it, it's ferrous, even if it's only the skin of the bridge.

I also let my ears decide. Sure sounds ferrous, or at least provides that "something extra" that makes a Tele bridge pickup sound unique.

[AA4GA]

Originally Posted by kludge

Was the other amp in the same room? Or even a different place in the same room? In my experience, hum can vary wildly depending on where you're standing.

Actually, they were separated by about 2 miles. Next week I'll try putting my amp next to another and try several different guitars/cables and see if I see anything.

[JayFreddy]

I have a 280/298 set installed in one of my Peavey Generations, and no squealing or pickup noise at all. I use them crystal clean, with overdrive, and with massive distortion.

I didn't think about it at the time, but when I replaced the pickups, I also changed the bridge, wanting a more modern style with square saddles instead of the barrell saddles that came on the guitar.

My luthier happened to have a StewMac bridge in stock that would work as a drop in replacement, so I bought it. By sheer luck, it turns out the StewMac bridge is not magnetic at all, but the old Peavey bridge is.

It seems the more I use Bill and Becky's pickups, the luckier I get!

[Clucker]

All I know is

#1 This whole adventure is costing me way more than I had planned and it would have been far less expensive to just drop some emg's in my wife's tele.
#2 I am never doing business with the Lawrence family again.

[StuH]

I'm sure you'll be able to recoup some of your losses, probably not what you want to hear but hey you'll be in a better mood when you put in the EMG's and hey it's summer cheer up.

[StuH]

Aren't the EMG pickups for tele tones all active? Where would you put the battery?

[teleman77]

The battery fits into the body cavity. Thats where mine is.