Should I do it? ROCKABILLY HELP

[JohnnyCrash]

THE GUITAR:
I've gotta Gibson ES-135 I threw a Bigsby on.

I love the '57 Classic pickups on my '57 RI LP Custom, as well as on this ES-135... BUT

WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR AND WHY
I'm considering putting a Gretsch type pickup in the bridge spot. The "chromyte" (balsa) center block makes the guitar sound more like a full hollow instead of a semi-hollow. This lends itself to some "blurred" notes and less clarity when driven hard. It's great for clean jazz type stuff as it gets that "woody" sound like a full hollow - but I'm thinking of putting in a Gretsch style pickup for a little more twang, clarity, and bite.

Should I do it? If so which pickup?

GFS Retrotron Nashville (Ceramic)
GFS Retrotron Liverpool (AlNiCo V)
TV Jones TVClassic (in humbucker mounting/housing)
TV Jones Power'Tron (in humbucker mounting/housing)

This is especially for you fellow Rockabilly players - I need your help!

I need more snap and clarity in what is essentially a full hollowbody.

[JohnnyCrash]

Oh, I guess I should show a photo, just for kicks.

This is my "Celeste #1" named after the misses (she talked me into buying this one - three of my guitars are named after her):

[buddywayne]

I don't know about the pups, but that is one nice guitar!!!!!!!!!!!

[JohnnyCrash]

Thanks!

Well, I've been digging around for reviews, etc...

I have three different GFS pickups (2 Tele bridge and one P-90) and I love their sound. It doesn't hurt that their price is friendly :)

I think I'll go with GFS Retrotrons... but now I'm torn.

Memphis (AlNiCo II)
Liverpool (AlNiCo V)
Nashville (Ceramic)

I'm actually considering the ceramic Nashville's since I'm looking to brighten up the bridge pickup position (and not warm up that spot). A2 mags may be too mellow and warm, so I'm thinking of excluding the Memphis... that leaves the Liverpool (might still be too warm) and Nashville.

Anybody got any experience with any of these three GFS pickups?

[Turtletwang]

Johnny,

Try this site. Enter then navigate to the Rockabilly Guitar page.

http://www.the-jime.dk/

[fezz parka]

P90 types (Mean 90's) or Dynasonics (Retrotron Brooklyn).

[xStonr]

I had Liverpools in my semi hollow and didn't care much for them. What I did was replace them with Vintage Vibe P90s in a humbucker package and they just sound amazing. The pickups come with alnico and ceramic magnets so you can change them if desired.

[JohnnyCrash]

I had toyed with the P-90 idea on this guitar a while back... the P-90 might be the best bet on this one... I shoulda thought of that (again haha).

I guess a Gretsch should be in my future somewhere along the way too :)

[JohnnyCrash]

That settles it, I think I'll go with a GFS Dream-90 in the bridge and keep the '57 Classic in the neck...

Thanks guys!

[RockinCarl]

Forget about it. This whole post was taken the wrong way.

[Telenator]

I find the Seymour Duncan Custom Five bridge p'up to have outstanding cut and clarity. Exactly what you're looking for. Read up on this one. http://www.seymourduncan.com/compare...tone.asp?ID=10

I used to like the SD JB alot but as I started to clean up my sound, the JB started to sound really dark. JB's sound great through Marshalls and Vox amps with a fair amount of drive but man, the Custom Five cuts through like nobody's business while maintaining sweet tones in the highs.

This comparison is of course based on a few guitars I have owned where I needed something similar to what you're asking for. I seldom recommend a specific p'up to anyone because there are just too many variables, but in this case I'll make an exception.

[tdu]

I had the GFS Liverpools in an Artcore and they sounded REALLY good for Rockabilly.

But my favourite guitar for Rockabilly tones that I have owned/played is my Reverend Charger 290. The P-90's combined with their bass contour feature are so great. I think P-90's are a great choice for a Rockabilly guitar.

Reverend sells their "Revtron" Filtrons for a pretty decent price on their site. That might be something to look into as well. They seem to make some great pickups.

[MandyMarie]

Carl, you literally just typed the post I was about to.

Humbuckers were invented in 1958...rockabilly was dead by 1958.

If you're wanting a Gretsch style pickup - get a replica DeArmond (think Cliff Gallup's Duo Jet w/ Gene Vincent) but try to stay single coil if you want to nail what you hear in your head.

Think Grady Martin (my favorite guitar player ever!)...

[bo]

What Mandy Marie and Carl said. Get the equivalent of a Dynasonic (currently the DeArmond 2000 pickup comes close) or a P-90.

[kludge]

Waitaminute... your wife talks you INTO buying guitars?

d00d, you should so clone her!

[Tele295]

Originally Posted by MandyMarie

Carl, you literally just typed the post I was about to.

Humbuckers were invented in 1958...rockabilly was dead by 1958.

Dead by '58? Johnny Cash was still on Sun in '58.

Eddie Cochrane recorded Nervous Breakdown in 1958

Great Balls of Fire was on the charts in '58, as was Ricky Nelson's Stood Up

[Ben Harmless]

Damn the torpedoes! Buy the Filtertrons!

I love some o' the people in this thread to death, but put the "rock" back in rockabilly, and do what you want. If you want a super traditional sound, then absolutely, grab a P-90 style, or some sort of humbucker drop-in DeArmond 2000 type thing, but if you just wanna play some rockabilly with good tone, and no hum, grab them TVJones and don't look back. I'll be the first to agree that Setzer is the reason that rockabilly=filtertrons in most folks' head, but anyone have a serious problem with Setzer's tone? I think it sounds just fine for old-school, true-to-life rockabilly, and for the crazy dirty rocknroll he does too.

[RockinCarl]

Originally Posted by Tele295

Dead by '58? Johnny Cash was still on Sun in '58.

Eddie Cochrane recorded Nervous Breakdown in 1958

Great Balls of Fire was on the charts in '58, as was Ricky Nelson's Stood Up

Well.... I said most was dead... Not all.

[WickedGTR]

I think a tele or a strat makes a damn fine Rockabilly thingie. Buddy Holly, Paul Burlison, James Burton etc etc etc.

I never bought into the hollow body/Gretsch thing as being essential to Rockabilly.

But what do I know.

[tdu]

Ya, what if you like the Filtron Rockabilly sound? I love tones like Rev. Horton Heat, Poison Ivy and Setzer. I love early Rockabilly, but I love revival stuff just as much. I don't agree that Rockabilly ever died. I

[MandyMarie]

Okay...it wasn't DEAD but it was DYIN' haha! I think I'm waaaay too traditional in what I consider "rockabilly" - I'm one of those folks that don't think Elvis recorded a single "rockabilly" song after '56 - and actually, to be honest, I PERSONALLY think that on a mainstream level, rockabilly was dyin' by '57...and replaced by rock 'n roll and teenie bop. I don't wanna pull it into a huge discussion like 99% of my friends would (because when they do I'm always like, "geez! Who cares! Drop it!" hahahahhaa *blush*), but I don't think "Great Balls Of Fire" is a rockabilly song in the least...that's rock 'n roll. This stuff is all opinion...and that's what makes it fun!

I know you guys probably think I'm pretty *****y when it comes to this kinda stuff...but I'm the easy goin' one! You should sit down and have a conversation with some of my friends. Whew...I love 'em like family but they drive me crazy. My personal opinion has always been do what you want - heck, imagine how much crap they give me for using BARDENS!

Miles, I wish you were goin' to Green Bay! I'm playing guitar for Art Adams and Carl's gonna be there with The Tarantulas...so's Little Richard, Robert Gordon (and Chris Spedding), Carl Mann, Jack Scott, Narvel Felts, Sonny Burgess w/ Rosie Flores, Billy Lee Riley, The Collins Kids (YAY for Larry Collins!!!), Bo Diddley, Wanda Jackson, Ray Campi...I know I'm forgettin' like a million people - but I swear, our own Rockin' Carl is good enough to back any of 'em and I can't WAIT to hang out and get silly.

PS - Jimmy Wilsey is on it...more rockabilly was recorded with a solid body Fender than any other guitar on the planet.

Oh and PSS - if you're going after Reverend Horton Heat's guitar sound you should get something with P-90's...he used his Gibson for recording up until recently. I'm with you, I love his guitar sounds on Full Custom and Smoke 'Em...

[WickedGTR]

It's like the posts about 'what pickups for a blues tone'.

Uhhh... do you mean Lightnin Hopkins or SRV?

One persons rockabilly hero may sound like a heavy metal guy with a Gretsch and a haircut to another.

It's all good.

[Ben Harmless]

Mandy, no need for excuses! Someone's gotta fly the flag for the traditional angle!

[JohnnyCrash]

Damn.

I ask for advice on a HUMBCUKING SIZED pickup for an archtop that will simply be brighter than the '57 already in it and I'm force fed a lesson in Rockabilly - one that I already knew!

Originally Posted by tdu

Ya, what if you like the Filtron Rockabilly sound? I love tones like Rev. Horton Heat, Poison Ivy and Setzer. I love early Rockabilly, but I love revival stuff just as much. I don't agree that Rockabilly ever died. I

My point exactly.

I hate Brian Setzer, and I'm not to fond of the Rev...

Poison Ivy on the other hand, is one of my favorite guitar players in ANY genre.

BUT, LIKE YOU SAID:
I'm not looking for historical accuracy or even "authenticity"... or even old Gretsch tones ... I'm merely looking for something brighter than what I've got.

The thought of a GFS humbucker sized P-90 didn't even occur to me... now that it did, you guys can continue to argue about how there was no "real" Rockabilly after '57-'58 - which is equally as ridiculous.

PS
I live around the corner from Eddie Cochran's burial place in Cypress CA... more important to this discussion, I've been playing Rockabilly as long as I've been playing guitar - I simply wanted a brighter pickup, that's all.

[tdu]

If there was any humbucker sized Dearmond, I would totally recommend that from my experiences so far with my Dearmond M77T. They sound like the middle ground between a a P-90 and a Filtron to me. I haven't owned anything quite like those pickups before. I am loving them for the Rockabilly.

[davidge1]

Before you buy the pickups...

Would Filtertrons even be the right size for the holes? Also, you can go from humbuckers to P-90s, but then you cant really go back to humbuckers without refinishing the guitar if you change your mind.

Personally, I think the original Gretch Filtertrons were some of the best sounding pickups ever made, and the TV Jones pickups really have that sound. The ones made by Gretch didn't when they first started doing the reissues... maybe they've improved in recent years.

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by davidge1

Before you buy the pickups...

Would Filtertrons even be the right size for the holes? Also, you can go from humbuckers to P-90s, but then you cant really go back to humbuckers without refinishing the guitar if you change your mind.

Personally, I think the original Gretch Filtertrons were some of the best sounding pickups ever made, and the TV Jones pickups really have that sound. The ones made by Gretch didn't when they first started doing the reissues... maybe they've improved in recent years.

Yeah,

TV Jones makes them in "standard" humbucker sizes and GFS makes "Retrotrons" in normal humbucker sizes as well.

I'm ordering the Dream-90s tonight...

I'd really like to try out some of the TV Jones pickups (they make the new pickups for Gretsch these days).

For anybody else looking to have a Rockabilly debate - see my original post - I'm just looking for brighter, NOT some history lesson I already know.

[Tele295]

Originally Posted by MandyMarie

I know you guys probably think I'm pretty *****y when it comes to this kinda stuff...but I'm the easy goin' one! You should sit down and have a conversation with some of my friends. Whew...I love 'em like family but they drive me crazy. My personal opinion has always been do what you want - heck, imagine how much crap they give me for using BARDENS!

That's precisely why I don't run with the rockabilly underground anymore. Things got a little strict and waaaaay too uptight for my tastes. You gotta have the right shirt, the right shoes, the right guitar, etc. etc. I like to think my rockabilly credentials are pretty good, having recorded at Sun Studios and written for Carl Perkins, but I was gettin' these upstarts telling me I didn't know from rockabilly. I don't think so, scooter.

You go ahead and play it any way you want it, Mandy. Those same goosestepping thugs probably told Gatton he couldn't play rockabilly, either.

JLW rocks, btw.

[tdu]

JC, I haven't tried them myself, but from the description the GFS Brooklyn's sound pretty cool. They seem to be a sort of humbucker sized Dearmond.

http://store.guitarfetish.com/gfsnyodestsu1.html

[RomanS]

Originally Posted by tdu

JC, I haven't tried them myself, but from the description the GFS Brooklyn's sound pretty cool. They seem to be a sort of humbucker sized Dearmond.

http://store.guitarfetish.com/gfsnyodestsu1.html

I have those in an Ibanez Artcore; never tried a Dearmond myself, but to me they sound kinda like fat Strat pickups; bright, indeed, not a whole lot of midrange, tight bass; they work great for playing clean surf or rockabilly tones, but don'T think about turning up the gain with these - welcome to buzz city...

[Disastercaster]

Johnny, I think you should go for a Magnatron in a Humbucker housing from TV Jones. It's basically a single coil sounding humbucker, perfect for rockabilly.

TV is unbelievable.

[MandyMarie]

Miles, imagine mah poor husband...as you know, he's played guitar for several members of the Rockabilly Hall of Fame (and still does). When you start putting your gear on stage when you're backing someone of that caliber, you're instantly judged. They aren't happy until you're toting in an original Ray Butts hahaha!

Danny doesn't give a crap about any of it. I've seen him back some of my rockabilly heros using a Barden (which as everyone knows is a HUMBUCKER) equipped '52 RI and a little RI Deluxe. Two pieces of equipment they always go on and on about - the reissue blackface amps and humbuckers - but nobody says a dang word after he starts playing...I guess great playing makes people overlook the lack of an EchoSonic. *blush*

It does get rrreally crazy, and you and I have talked about that at length before, but I wasn't really meaning for this specific thread to - our band has a six hour drive to our show on Friday and I'm sure this is what we'll be talkin' about THEN. Reason being? I'm gonna spin that dang new Kirchen CD the whoooooole way whether they like it or not!

[JohnnyCrash]

You guys hit it right on the head.

There's three things that people get overly dogmatic about (that drive me nuts):
Blues
Rockabilly
Punk

Three genres that started off by flipping of the "norms" of other music. All three genres I love, worship, and research.

That's like saying "you can be free - but only within these constricts"... well, that's not what the founding fathers thought when they plugged in whatever guitars they plugged in (when I saw Link Wray in '99 or 2000 he was playing through a Marshall JCM800 halfstack!).

I was just looking for a brighter pickup that could get a muffled archtop into a brighter twanging area... you know, a little more Rockabilly and a little less Jazz.

It's good to know this thread isn't completely ruled by "purists"... afterall it's the purists that ruin anything truly pure.

I ended up with the Dream-90, but I wish I woulda saw them GFS Brooklyn's before I placed the order... this archtop is extremely dark... damnit, those might be better than a P-90 type pickup :(

[davidge1]

I have to stand up for the traditionalists here...

There are a lot of qualities about music of the past that got lost somewhere. Anyone who grew up listening to and playing rock music is automatically going to have a tendency to play a certain way...which doesnt create the sound that rockabilly had in the 50s. I think it's great that people have dug a little bit deeper and really learned to play rockabilly the way the musicians played back then.

I dont see it as being an "uptight" thing at all. It's more like a lost artform that people have revived. And, like restoring an old car, of course people want to recreate the look as well...but I dont see anyone putting pressure on anyone else to dress a certain way or play a certain type of guitar...its something people do because that's what they like.

To me, the best rockabilly guitarists around now are people like Deke Dickerson and Ashley Kingman from Big Sandy. I've always felt that Brian Setzer's playing was way too overdone and heavy-handed – and that's the modern rock influence. To me, it lacks soul. I feel the same about Danny Gatton. In fact, I feel that way about almost all modern country players as well.

[MandyMarie]

Ashley is downright amazing...I'm literally constantly blown away by that fella. I really, really dig bands that keep that flame burnin' - we just did a show with The Two Timin' Three from Austin and I walked away going, "holy crap... we're loud." I love traditional rockabilly...and I love punk rock...and a whole bunch of stuff in between, but I absolutely love traditional rockabilly. So when someone asks for recommendations on a rockabilly pickup, my brain automatically goes into traditional rockabilly mode - just out of love, nothin' else.

This has nothin' to do with nothin', but I feel like I've been trying to stay OUT of these fights my whole dang life. I was gettin' goofy with a band called Eric Kinsey and his Tip Top Daddies when I first moved to Indianapolis and I was using a beat to hell 50's Country Club. I attended my first "rocakbilly festival" and was blown away by the sea of 6120-60's (this was '98? I was 18?). These were the same people telling me I didn't have the right amp (I was using a brownface RI Vibroverb) and echo pedal... yet they were using a 6120-60. I think people are always going to fight about this kinda stuff...I loved watching Deke Dickerson pull a DanEcho out of his bag when I seen him for the first time. It's all personal opinion...and what works for one person may not work for another (meaning if you're playing local shows, dragging that Echoplex around may not be that big of a deal...if you're traveling and everyone around you is a stranger and you're depending on it...you might want something a little more dependable). I love talkin' about all things traditional...bands, roots, labels, clothes, shoes, hair, guitars, amps, suitcases, you name it. It's a sensitive subject when it really shouldn't be haha!

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

I ended up with the Dream-90, but I wish I woulda saw them GFS Brooklyn's before I placed the order... this archtop is extremely dark... damnit, those might be better than a P-90 type pickup :(

I guess you missed post #6.

[Brian blaut]

I love rockabilly, but its so tiring that people should actually care what gear anyone else uses, reguardless of the genre. I can't imagine Scotty Moore is sitting at home rolling his eyes because someone's using the wrong echo. That'd be rediculous. Scotty himself recently used a boss delay with a Peavey classic.

Its music, not a fashion show. And there aren't any rules. The original artists where pioneers. I think some of today's enthusiasts seem to have a handle on the music and gear, but not the spirit at which it was made.

BTW, Johnny, you can't play rockabilly with humbucker shaped p90s. You'll look stupid.

[JohnnyCrash]

Traditional is fine and dandy, and I dig as much as you other Rockabilly freaks... if you hadn't noticed my avatar photo, I've got a greasy pompador melted over my face from that gig the photo was taken at.

I built my OWN standalone Reverb unit clone and about 6 or 7 amps (most tweed '50s era Fender circuits).

Living where I do (Orange County, CA), I got to see an awfull lot of Deke and Big Sandy gigs... not to mention a ton of other Rockabilly acts over many years.

So I can "hang" with the traditionalists. We can have a "pissing contest" all night about who's got what Rockabilly credentials... but that's NOT why I posted this thread. I was simply looking for a pickup to brighten up my ES-135.

Still, like I said about those guys, these days - whatever you want to call Link Wray, when I saw him he was using a Marshall JCM800 halfstack - Deke using a DanEcho... Johnny Meeks using weird '80s G&L's... if they don't mind using "historically inaccurate" gear, why the heck should I?

I'm sure many of them folks are glad they don't have to use those bulky analog tape delays, hard to find Standel amps (started in '53 in Temple City - 15 minutes from my house), or ancient Fenders (started in Fullerton, another 5 minutes from my house where I frequent the bars by Fullerton College)... how are my credentials so far? (j/k)

My (longwinded) point is - if you REALLY want to get authentic about it, you'd have to ONLY use stuff made in the '50s, NOS pomade (HAHAHA), giant water tanks for echo/reverb... I aint that rich.

So in the interests of full disclosure, I use Murray's Pomade, wear wingtips and creepers (crepe soled shoes), and play these homemade Esquires mostly through this homemade "low watt" Twin amp (through a Jensen AlNiCo 15"):






Do I pass the test?

Can I now make a simple inquiry about a brighter pickup that'll help me nail some Rockabilly tones? hehe

Sarcasm and tongue in cheek ribbing aside - I'm on BOTH sides of this issue. I love the pure tradition, but I also see the teenage ridiculousness in it all as well (it's simply no longer the '50s anymore)...

So, call me an immature teenager, just don't take my pomade or Telecasters :)

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

I guess you missed post #6.

Yes, sadly I did :)

When my girlfriend sees me reading something she always says "Why are you pretending to read?" HAHAHA

I think the Dearmond clones would look a little funny on the guitar (the white fiber bobbins), so we'll see how the Dream-90 works out first... but soundwise, I bet those GFS Brooklyn's would be exactly what my brain/ears are looking for.

Originally Posted by Brian blaut

I love rockabilly, but its so tiring that people should actually care what gear anyone else uses, reguardless of the genre. I can't imagine Scotty Moore is sitting at home rolling his eyes because someone's using the wrong echo. That'd be rediculous. Scotty himself recently used a boss delay with a Peavey classic.

Its music, not a fashion show. And there aren't any rules. The original artists where pioneers. I think some of today's enthusiasts seem to have a handle on the music and gear, but not the spirit at which it was made.

Amen to that.

These guys were like Ben Franklin and the old Blues guys... as long as it made a noise they liked, who cares. It's all about utility and usefullness.

Originally Posted by Brian blaut

BTW, Johnny, you can't play rockabilly with humbucker shaped p90s. You'll look stupid.

No, you're wrong - I ALWAYS look stupid, no matter what music I play and no matter what guitar I use HAHAHA
:)

[RomanS]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Yes, sadly I did :)

I think the Dearmond clones would look a little funny on the guitar (the white fiber bobbins), so we'll see how the Dream-90 works out first... but soundwise, I bet those GFS Brooklyn's would be exactly what my brain/ears are looking for.

They come in black, too - here's my Artcore with those Brooklyns:



- but I'm thinking about selling it to a friend of mine - I simple don't use it enough, ever since I built my Partscaster, and this friend wants to make it his main guitar...