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TheGoodTexan · September 14th, 2003, 03:37 PM

I recently got a new Joe Barden Tele neck pickup and put it in. I'm using a Broadcaster in the bridge, and I read on here...someone remarked that they liked the tone, but that it had much more output than the Broadcaster...so that's what I was expecting.

What I got was a Barden neck pickup with about half the output of a Broadcaster. I put the meter on it and it reads about 4.4, so I took it back to Guitar Heaven. They gladly traded it out for me, but I decided to check the new one before I left the store - it read 4.3! So I check all of the others they had in stock. The highest reading I got was 4.5!

This is not correct, is it? They're calling Joe on Monday. Seriously less output than I was expecting, especially after reading on the Barden website - "the output level of these pickups greatly exceeds the output level of stock pickups".

PeterUK · September 14th, 2003, 04:03 PM

Bruce

I'm pretty sure that the resistance (the value that everyone incorrectly judges pick-ups by) is lower on the Barden pick-ups because they are pseudo-humbuckers and, speaking from a position of uninformed incompetence, I'm sure humbuckers measure LESS resistance than single coils (some one did explain it in a bar one night, but I was one beer short of hearing nothing at all for the rest of the night!).

From the Barden website:

"We use the inductance method in the final tests to make sure that our assembly process is correct. We don’t use the resistance method. That’s a waste of time, because all it tells you is the length of a piece of wire, and nothing about tone. Inductance tests allow us to maintain a 1% tolerance in an industry that normally runs at 20%. [Inductance is measured with a device that sends an audio signal through a coil at a specified frequency and provides an inductance reading in henrys. This test is only meaningful to the manufacturer under specific testing criteria.] People will call and ask, "How many ohms does your pickup put out?" I have to explain that a pickup doesn’t put out ohms. Very prominent manufacturers have capitalized on false statements and half-truths, and guys like myself who are at the bottom of the pile are faced with the consequences."

Therefore, I'm sure both pick-ups are fine. I think the proof will be in the listening. I suspect, based on the above, Barden will tell you the meaningless resistance figures you have are within their tolerances.

Looking back through what I've typed, it almost looks as though I know what I'm talking about. Don't be fooled by this.

Let us know how it turns out.

Best regards

Peter

TheGoodTexan · September 14th, 2003, 04:53 PM

Hey Peter -

I'm kind of like you in that respect - I understand enough about those measurements to get myself in trouble. I know that the impedance is not a direct measurement of output - I do understand that.

BUT - why is the actual output when played SO SO MUCH less than the Broadcaster? Even with the Broadcaster adjusted almost all of the way down, and the Barden adjusted fairly high, there is no way I can use these two pickups together - no way at all. And that's a shame - especially after shelling out the $$$ for the Barden pup.

I'm sure I could look back at the posts over the past few weeks and find the one where somebody claimed that THEIR Barden Tele neck was so much louder than their Broadcaster....I'm confused.

wes · September 15th, 2003, 12:11 AM

I just checked the ohm reading of the Bardens in both my guitars and they both read about 13.5 ohms. Maybe I got the odd ones which are really hot.

TheGoodTexan · September 15th, 2003, 09:30 AM

That helps out tremendously! I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

fabien · September 15th, 2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterUK

...speaking from a position of uninformed incompetence, I'm sure humbuckers measure LESS resistance than single coils (some one did explain it in a bar one night, but I was one beer short of hearing nothing at all for the rest of the night!).

From the Barden website:

"... We don’t use the resistance method. That’s a waste of time, because all it tells you is the length of a piece of wire, and nothing about tone.
...

Sorry Peter, I believe it's just the other way around, HBs have more resistance since they have more wire (2 coils). Beeing at least as much incompetent as you are (actually undoubtably much more)

I can affirm this with the assurance of the naive ones :D .

Seriously I think I'm right on this one but... :?

GoodTexan, your Bardens should read some more if you mesured them correctly.

Fabien

TheGoodTexan · September 15th, 2003, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabien

GoodTexan, your Bardens should read some more if you mesured them correctly. Fabien

My measurement is correct, and it coincides with the lack of performance that I'm experiencing. Guitar Heaven is contacting Barden today to see what they recommend.

Jim Collins · September 15th, 2003, 02:00 PM

The Good Texan is correct -- the DC resistance measurement of the Barden pickups is quite low, compared to traditional-style Telecaster pickups. I've posted about this more than once, using Bardens and the Nocaster bridge pickups as examples of how useless the DC resistance measurement is, when gauging the output of a pickup.

The Barden pickup is a true humbucker, and it uses a ceramic magnet. The DC resistance measurement only measures resistance across a length of wire -- it does not measure the effect of the type of magnet, and a ceramic magnet will have a significant effect on output.

Jim Collins · September 15th, 2003, 02:05 PM

Are you saying that your Barden neck pickup appears underpowered, when compared to a Broadcaster bridge pickup? Interesting. I've used several different Barden Telecaster pickup sets in several guitars, and I've never seen that to be the case.

Does the Barden sound like it ought to sound -- full, not nasally?

TheGoodTexan · September 15th, 2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Collins

Are you saying that your Barden neck pickup appears underpowered, when compared to a Broadcaster bridge pickup? Interesting. I've used several different Barden Telecaster pickup sets in several guitars, and I've never seen that to be the case.

Does the Barden sound like it ought to sound -- full, not nasally?

You got it - that's exactly what I'm saying. The tone of the Barden alone is fine - full, not at all nasally. It's just about 1/2 the output of the Broadcaster.

I know what it's like to have generally mis-matched pickups, with respect to output. This is so much more drastic than that - to the point where it's not fixable with height adjustments.

Wes already reported a 13.5 Ohm reading on his Barden necks pickups. Mine is measuring at 4.4. All of the ones that Guitar Heaven had in stock (5) measured between 4.3 and 4.5. I measured them myself and the pickup guy there measured them.

Either I'm doing something totally wrong, or these specific pickups are bad.

John E · September 15th, 2003, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoodTexan

You got it - that's exactly what I'm saying. The tone of the Barden alone is fine - full, not at all nasally. It's just about 1/2 the output of the Broadcaster.

I know what it's like to have generally mis-matched pickups, with respect to output. This is so much more drastic than that - to the point where it's not fixable with height adjustments.

Wes already reported a 13.5 Ohm reading on his Barden necks pickups. Mine is measuring at 4.4. All of the ones that Guitar Heaven had in stock (5) measured between 4.3 and 4.5. I measured them myself and the pickup guy there measured them.

Either I'm doing something totally wrong, or these specific pickups are bad.

Wow that's bizarre... there's no way that the Broadcaster should be dwarfing the Barden... if anything it should be the other way around.... I would think you should be having to drop the height of the Barden to match output... those are some pretty powerful pickups. Something definitely aint right... did you try emailing Barden?

Jim Collins · September 15th, 2003, 04:57 PM

All of my Bardens measured just as yours measures, between 4.0 and 4.5K.

How is this critter connected (what color wires, where)?

TheGoodTexan · September 15th, 2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Collins

All of my Bardens measured just as yours measures, between 4.0 and 4.5K.

How is this critter connected (what color wires, where)?

But to the best of my recollection, they come from Barden with the white and red wires already soldered together and shrink wrapped. I've been measuring with the green and black wires (hot and ground)...and then there's the grounding/shielding wire, which I know it ties in with the insulated grounding wire.

Standard 5-way set up (Nashville Tele style) - in fact Joe Glaser was the first to install it - and report the problem.

wes · September 15th, 2003, 06:28 PM

I just had my friend measure his Bardens and they are 13 ohms. Where are you guys getting this 4.5? Do you really mean 4.5 ohms or 4.5 thousand ohms?

TheGoodTexan · September 15th, 2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wes

I just had my friend measure his Bardens and they are 13 ohms. Where are you guys getting this 4.5? Do you really mean 4.5 ohms or 4.5 thousand ohms?

4.5k Ohms

TheGoodTexan · September 16th, 2003, 11:22 AM

I just emailed Joe Barden and expalined the problem. He replied to my email within about 30 minutes!

He said that 4.4k ohms reading is correct, but that with the problem I'm experiencing, it sounds like an internal problem with the pickup, which would be his fault. He said to have Guitar Heaven swap it out for one they have in stock, and he would make it cool with them.

He also said that he's never made a pickup with a resistance of 13.5k ohms.

wes · September 16th, 2003, 01:00 PM

I just remeasured my Bardens with an analog meter and I get 4.1 ohms. My digital meter must not be reading the lower scale accurately. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. However, I have no idea why the Broadcaster PU still reads the same with both meters.

TheGoodTexan · September 16th, 2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoodTexan

I just emailed Joe Barden and expalined the problem.

Just to clarifiy...I explained the problem...I never "expalined" anything...not sure how I'd do that...

PeterUK · September 16th, 2003, 02:14 PM

Hoping this will post after my recent problems!

Regards

Peter

wes · September 16th, 2003, 02:58 PM

Yes, I believe you are right.
The key here is what is the impedence of the pickup which adds the inductive and capacitive properties to give us the true resistance of the circuit. If just a ohm reading of a pickup gave us an indication of it's output all 8 ohm speakers would have equal volume level.

TheGoodTexan · September 16th, 2003, 04:02 PM

Hey Peter - You were certainly correct my friend.

Wes - I know what you mean with the speaker analogy, but impendance and resistance are two different things. Don't ask me why - my Dad just brought that to my attention years ago. I'm not an electrician.

But here's my final thought (yeah right): The term "overwound" in regards to pickups is used around here to mean a hotter pickup. So in my little mind, that means more winds = hotter pickup...is that incorrect?

Over wound would equal more wire used (either in length or in gauge). More wire would equal greater resistance, all things being equal.

I think my brain just caught on fire.

mark norwine · September 17th, 2003, 03:20 PM

judging output strength by measuring DC resistance is akin to judging intelligence by measuring shoe size.

pickups are an AC device....without taking into account the inductive reactance, DC resistance is meaningless.

perfect case-in-point....barden pickups are lower than most other brands in DC resistance, but are arguably hotter in output.

'nuff said?

as for anyone reading a barden at 12K ohms, i have to ask: are you reading this pickup in the circuit [pots & caps wired in]? if you are, you're getting an erroneous reading. to read a pickup, you need to disconnect it from the circuit. then again, why bother? DC resistance is meaningless.

yes, really.

wes · September 17th, 2003, 05:03 PM

Resistance in and of it's self is meaningless to output level.

PeterUK · September 17th, 2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark norwine

judging output strength by measuring DC resistance is akin to judging intelligence by measuring shoe size.

Hey, I've got big feet too (that's what I say to all the girls!)

fabien · September 18th, 2003, 07:41 AM

... I am more incompetent than Peter!
Sorry guys

!

I do however have small feet, so... 8)

Fabien

PeterUK · September 20th, 2003, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabien

... I am more incompetent than Peter!
Sorry guys

!

I do however have small feet, so... 8)

Fabien

Fabien

Don't put yourself down. To be honest I was winging it anyway and just got lucky.

Regards

Peter

JohnnyAtomic · September 23rd, 2003, 04:11 PM

FWIW i have a barden neck and a duncan antiquity bridge, and the barden is much HIGHER output than the duncan. so i adjust the duncan high, barden low. are you sure that there is nothing wrong with the wiring. i have seen a bad switch case a PU to have low output.

TheGoodTexan · September 23rd, 2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyAtomic

are you sure that there is nothing wrong with the wiring. i have seen a bad switch case a PU to have low output.

Yeah - it did it with two different switches...a 3-way and a 5-way. Barden said it was probably something internal with the pickup. I just got the replacement, and I'll be putting it in later tonight. Hopefully everything will be fine.

jjmantele · October 6th, 2003, 11:48 PM

Lets say you have a HB pup with 4 wires (5 with shield.) Each of the ~7k~ coils has a lead on each end of it. If you wire the coils in series, you will get APPROXIMATELY 14K ohms since you add the 2 figures of APPROXIMATELY 7K together. If you wire them in parallel, you get APPROXIMATELY 3.5K since you average them and divide by 2.

With a double blade type, the series setup should be much louder than the parallel. Kind of like how 2 tubes wired as "push pull" are much stronger than 2 set up as parallel to each other.

Parallel is also a little "brighter" (but quieter.) I guess he wires them parallel when sold since they are usually sold as a matched set. I ordered one for the neck and plan to wire it series and lower it to match my very loud stock bridge. If that's still too loud I will try parallel and raise it with my fingers crossed.

jjmantele · October 10th, 2003, 10:18 PM

Got the neck Barden. Tested it with my ohm meter and it was open (dead.) Tested each winding's solder points. One coil was 2.2K and one was open. The pickup comes with the white and red leads joined for a series setup. I had to touch my soldering iron to all 4 contacts to get it to test consistently ok. 2.2K+2.2K series and it measures 4.4K. Yes that's "low" (especially for a series HB) but as others have said, this value is meaningless by itself. Since it's so small for an HB, it probably doesn't have much room for long coil wire lengths, thus less DC resistance/ohms.

I mounted it almost level with the guard and it is basically balance in volume with the loud stock bridge PU. I'll probably raise it a tad. Tone is balanced but I didn't get to crank it yet. Definitely no more muffled low output neck position problem. :D

wes · October 11th, 2003, 12:12 AM

JJ,
Glad you finally got your problem solved. I was just playing my Tele tonight with the Barden neck pup through a friend's Bassman. WOW! Who would ever think a "twanger" could sound so rich without the mud?
I would sugest the Barden as a replacement for all neck pickups.

September 14th, 2003, 03:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
TheGoodTexan Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: xx Posts: 5,539	Barden neck pups I recently got a new Joe Barden Tele neck pickup and put it in. I'm using a Broadcaster in the bridge, and I read on here...someone remarked that they liked the tone, but that it had much more output than the Broadcaster...so that's what I was expecting. What I got was a Barden neck pickup with about half the output of a Broadcaster. I put the meter on it and it reads about 4.4, so I took it back to Guitar Heaven. They gladly traded it out for me, but I decided to check the new one before I left the store - it read 4.3! So I check all of the others they had in stock. The highest reading I got was 4.5! This is not correct, is it? They're calling Joe on Monday. Seriously less output than I was expecting, especially after reading on the Barden website - "the output level of these pickups greatly exceeds the output level of stock pickups".

September 14th, 2003, 04:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
PeterUK Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: . Posts: 3,320	Don't Panic Bruce I'm pretty sure that the resistance (the value that everyone incorrectly judges pick-ups by) is lower on the Barden pick-ups because they are pseudo-humbuckers and, speaking from a position of uninformed incompetence, I'm sure humbuckers measure LESS resistance than single coils (some one did explain it in a bar one night, but I was one beer short of hearing nothing at all for the rest of the night!). From the Barden website: "We use the inductance method in the final tests to make sure that our assembly process is correct. We don’t use the resistance method. That’s a waste of time, because all it tells you is the length of a piece of wire, and nothing about tone. Inductance tests allow us to maintain a 1% tolerance in an industry that normally runs at 20%. [Inductance is measured with a device that sends an audio signal through a coil at a specified frequency and provides an inductance reading in henrys. This test is only meaningful to the manufacturer under specific testing criteria.] People will call and ask, "How many ohms does your pickup put out?" I have to explain that a pickup doesn’t put out ohms. Very prominent manufacturers have capitalized on false statements and half-truths, and guys like myself who are at the bottom of the pile are faced with the consequences." Therefore, I'm sure both pick-ups are fine. I think the proof will be in the listening. I suspect, based on the above, Barden will tell you the meaningless resistance figures you have are within their tolerances. Looking back through what I've typed, it almost looks as though I know what I'm talking about. Don't be fooled by this. Let us know how it turns out. Best regards Peter __________________ .

September 14th, 2003, 04:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
TheGoodTexan Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: xx Posts: 5,539	Yeah - but Hey Peter - I'm kind of like you in that respect - I understand enough about those measurements to get myself in trouble. I know that the impedance is not a direct measurement of output - I do understand that. BUT - why is the actual output when played SO SO MUCH less than the Broadcaster? Even with the Broadcaster adjusted almost all of the way down, and the Barden adjusted fairly high, there is no way I can use these two pickups together - no way at all. And that's a shame - especially after shelling out the $$$ for the Barden pup. I'm sure I could look back at the posts over the past few weeks and find the one where somebody claimed that THEIR Barden Tele neck was so much louder than their Broadcaster....I'm confused.

September 15th, 2003, 12:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
wes TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 53	Barden resistence I just checked the ohm reading of the Bardens in both my guitars and they both read about 13.5 ohms. Maybe I got the odd ones which are really hot.

September 15th, 2003, 09:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
TheGoodTexan Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: xx Posts: 5,539	Thanks Wes That helps out tremendously! I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

September 15th, 2003, 02:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jim Collins Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 309	The Good Texan is correct -- the DC resistance measurement of the Barden pickups is quite low, compared to traditional-style Telecaster pickups. I've posted about this more than once, using Bardens and the Nocaster bridge pickups as examples of how useless the DC resistance measurement is, when gauging the output of a pickup. The Barden pickup is a true humbucker, and it uses a ceramic magnet. The DC resistance measurement only measures resistance across a length of wire -- it does not measure the effect of the type of magnet, and a ceramic magnet will have a significant effect on output.

September 15th, 2003, 02:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jim Collins Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 309	Are you saying that your Barden neck pickup appears underpowered, when compared to a Broadcaster bridge pickup? Interesting. I've used several different Barden Telecaster pickup sets in several guitars, and I've never seen that to be the case. Does the Barden sound like it ought to sound -- full, not nasally?

September 15th, 2003, 04:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jim Collins Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 309	All of my Bardens measured just as yours measures, between 4.0 and 4.5K. How is this critter connected (what color wires, where)?

September 15th, 2003, 06:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
wes TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 53	4.5K? I just had my friend measure his Bardens and they are 13 ohms. Where are you guys getting this 4.5? Do you really mean 4.5 ohms or 4.5 thousand ohms?

September 16th, 2003, 11:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
TheGoodTexan Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: xx Posts: 5,539	To put this to rest...hopefully I just emailed Joe Barden and expalined the problem. He replied to my email within about 30 minutes! He said that 4.4k ohms reading is correct, but that with the problem I'm experiencing, it sounds like an internal problem with the pickup, which would be his fault. He said to have Guitar Heaven swap it out for one they have in stock, and he would make it cool with them. He also said that he's never made a pickup with a resistance of 13.5k ohms.

September 16th, 2003, 01:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
wes TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 53	Sorry for the faulty read I just remeasured my Bardens with an analog meter and I get 4.1 ohms. My digital meter must not be reading the lower scale accurately. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. However, I have no idea why the Broadcaster PU still reads the same with both meters.

September 16th, 2003, 02:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
PeterUK Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: . Posts: 3,320	Does that mean I was right?? Hoping this will post after my recent problems! Regards Peter __________________ .

September 16th, 2003, 02:58 PM	#20 (permalink)
wes TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 53	I think you are right! Yes, I believe you are right. The key here is what is the impedence of the pickup which adds the inductive and capacitive properties to give us the true resistance of the circuit. If just a ohm reading of a pickup gave us an indication of it's output all 8 ohm speakers would have equal volume level.

September 16th, 2003, 04:02 PM	#21 (permalink)
TheGoodTexan Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: xx Posts: 5,539	Yeah - You were right! Hey Peter - You were certainly correct my friend. Wes - I know what you mean with the speaker analogy, but impendance and resistance are two different things. Don't ask me why - my Dad just brought that to my attention years ago. I'm not an electrician. But here's my final thought (yeah right): The term "overwound" in regards to pickups is used around here to mean a hotter pickup. So in my little mind, that means more winds = hotter pickup...is that incorrect? Over wound would equal more wire used (either in length or in gauge). More wire would equal greater resistance, all things being equal. I think my brain just caught on fire.

September 17th, 2003, 03:20 PM	#22 (permalink)
mark norwine Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 51 Posts: 1,509	judging output strength by measuring DC resistance is akin to judging intelligence by measuring shoe size. pickups are an AC device....without taking into account the inductive reactance, DC resistance is meaningless. perfect case-in-point....barden pickups are lower than most other brands in DC resistance, but are arguably hotter in output. 'nuff said? as for anyone reading a barden at 12K ohms, i have to ask: are you reading this pickup in the circuit [pots & caps wired in]? if you are, you're getting an erroneous reading. to read a pickup, you need to disconnect it from the circuit. then again, why bother? DC resistance is meaningless. yes, really. __________________ "Progress is not possible without deviation from the norm." Frank Zappa

September 17th, 2003, 05:03 PM	#23 (permalink)
wes TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 53	You are absolutely right, Mark. Resistance in and of it's self is meaningless to output level.

September 18th, 2003, 07:41 AM	#25 (permalink)
fabien Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Dordrecht, The Netherlands Age: 50 Posts: 146	I knew it... ... I am more incompetent than Peter! Sorry guys ! I do however have small feet, so... 8) Fabien

September 23rd, 2003, 04:11 PM	#27 (permalink)
JohnnyAtomic Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 1,397	FWIW i have a barden neck and a duncan antiquity bridge, and the barden is much HIGHER output than the duncan. so i adjust the duncan high, barden low. are you sure that there is nothing wrong with the wiring. i have seen a bad switch case a PU to have low output. __________________ flaming hamper of rock! www.myspace.com/johnnyatomicmusic

October 6th, 2003, 11:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
jjmantele Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 903	Parallel VS. Series Lets say you have a HB pup with 4 wires (5 with shield.) Each of the ~7k~ coils has a lead on each end of it. If you wire the coils in series, you will get APPROXIMATELY 14K ohms since you add the 2 figures of APPROXIMATELY 7K together. If you wire them in parallel, you get APPROXIMATELY 3.5K since you average them and divide by 2. With a double blade type, the series setup should be much louder than the parallel. Kind of like how 2 tubes wired as "push pull" are much stronger than 2 set up as parallel to each other. Parallel is also a little "brighter" (but quieter.) I guess he wires them parallel when sold since they are usually sold as a matched set. I ordered one for the neck and plan to wire it series and lower it to match my very loud stock bridge. If that's still too loud I will try parallel and raise it with my fingers crossed. __________________ JJman If it says "Vintage" on it -it isn't.

October 10th, 2003, 10:18 PM	#30 (permalink)
jjmantele Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 903	Good news, bad news Got the neck Barden. Tested it with my ohm meter and it was open (dead.) Tested each winding's solder points. One coil was 2.2K and one was open. The pickup comes with the white and red leads joined for a series setup. I had to touch my soldering iron to all 4 contacts to get it to test consistently ok. 2.2K+2.2K series and it measures 4.4K. Yes that's "low" (especially for a series HB) but as others have said, this value is meaningless by itself. Since it's so small for an HB, it probably doesn't have much room for long coil wire lengths, thus less DC resistance/ohms. I mounted it almost level with the guard and it is basically balance in volume with the loud stock bridge PU. I'll probably raise it a tad. Tone is balanced but I didn't get to crank it yet. Definitely no more muffled low output neck position problem. :D __________________ JJman If it says "Vintage" on it -it isn't.

October 11th, 2003, 12:12 AM	#31 (permalink)
wes TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 53	Barden for neck is the best! JJ, Glad you finally got your problem solved. I was just playing my Tele tonight with the Barden neck pup through a friend's Bassman. WOW! Who would ever think a "twanger" could sound so rich without the mud? I would sugest the Barden as a replacement for all neck pickups.

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