Pickup + Bridge, the tone recipe?

[cacibi]

So - I started thinking about pickups in combination with either vintage or American standard bridge types. I have two Nashville B-Bender teles, one with SD Antiquities (Alinco III, I believe) and one with SD Broadcasters (Alnico V). I've also got a partscaster with a Fender OV pup in the bridge (Alinco III), it's a Wilkinson compensated, vintage style bridge.

I noticed that the Antiquites with the American standard bridge sound a little dead and lifeless, but the OV just pops and sparkles - lots of twang. The Broadcaster, on the other hand, sounds pretty good with the AS bridge.

It really started me thinking how important matching the bridge type to the pickup could be. I've heard lots of people complain that the Broadcaster is too bright - and I could see how, in a vintage bridge, it definitely would be. With the AS bridge, it's bright - but not TOO bright. Lots of midrange - which is good for me because I need it to 'rock' a little bit.

I've been thinking lately about swapping out my bender bridges for Glendales. While I think the Antiquities would benefit a lot from the vintage bridge - I think the Broadcaster might get out of control. So now I'm thinking I might drop Fender OV's in that guitar if I swap the bridge.

Any thoughts on this relationship and matching pups to bridges?

[petebradt]

The American Standard bridge will never ever get you to real Tele tone. Gotta have that thin ferrous bridge, the ashtray type.

[bug music]

Well, the heavy Callaham bridge on my American Standard seems to help tame some of the "ice pick" tones of a Barden bridge pickup, when the tone control is cranked all the way. The combination works out nice, to my ears anyway. Just my $.02, YMMV.
- Jay

[jjh37854]

"The American Standard bridge will never ever get you to real Tele tone. Gotta have that thin ferrous bridge, the ashtray type."

Ya?, tell that to Brent Mason

[yegbert]

I agree with your general line of thinking: that the bridge stands to make a difference and that a person might like different bridge and pickup combinations, some of which favor one bridge and others which favor the other...

I think it's useful for you to try the different pairings for yourself to know which particular components work in a specific Tele. In other words, don't assume that the Broadcaster would get out of control with a vintage type bridge based on others complaining it's too bright - try it for yourself and see.

If you want to maximize your learning about the relationship between the different components, try several different permutations of the parts. You might find that each of your Nashville B-Bender Teles has something of its own effect on the tone, so that the same bridge/pickup combo that sounds good in one, doesn't sound as good in the other.

Which SD Antiquity set do you have? I've read that the Antiquity Is, both the flatpole set and the '55 with the "raised D and G" bridge are AlNiCo 2. I just picked up a '55 set and they sound/respond a lot more like like A2 Pros I had, than any of several A5s or the OV A3s I've played. And I've read that the Antiquity IIs are A5.

I had an A2 Pro set, liked them for a while and then began to think of them similar to how you described them in your Tele. I was just learning to appreciate the Tele bridge for its twang and treble, and thought the A2 bridge would never get me there. I sold/traded them and favored a Duncan Broadcaster for a while. I eventually bought another A2 Pro bridge and think I've sorta come back around to appreciate and better understand how to adjust pickup heights and settings to like the A2.

I can't offer any insights about the Am Std bridge in particular, cause I've never owned one. But if your Antiquities are the A2s, make sure you try the range of pickup height adjustments and different settings on the Tele volume and tone controls; and make sure you give some time to using just the bridge pickup by itself. If you're wanting more brightness than the neck pickup gets you, don't mistakenly blame the set, try a different neck pickup to go with that bridge.

What neck pickups are you using paired with the Broadcaster and with the OV, and how do those suit you? Do you find some switch positions more useful and preferable than others with your Teles?

[RelicStrat]

Originally Posted by jjh37854

"The American Standard bridge will never ever get you to real Tele tone. Gotta have that thin ferrous bridge, the ashtray type."

Ya?, tell that to Brent Mason

That's exactly what I was thinking. Some of the finest Tele tone imaginable.

[cacibi]

Originally Posted by yegbert

What neck pickups are you using paired with the Broadcaster and with the OV, and how do those suit you? Do you find some switch positions more useful and preferable than others with your Teles?

With the Broadcaster I'm using the the Duncan recommended STR-1 Vintage Rhythm. I find this to be a good pairing and get all the sounds you would expect in middle and neck positions.

With the OV I have a GFS Cream Dream P-90 which, frankly, I bought more for the aesthetic than the sound. It is a passable P-90 and while the neck position is full and great for jazz/blues - I miss the standard tele middle position; the P-90 tends to dominate the OV.

Since I'm the lead player in the band, and I'm using a lot of b-bender - I usually stay on the bridge pup, but am starting to explore the other positions more and more, and also trying not to become a 'bender junkie'.

After reading further on the SD site I find you are correct, the Antiquites are Alnico II magnets, so some of what I'm hearing between the Antiquites and OV could be put to magnet type.

I definitely have tweaked the setup on the Antiquities and I don't think they sound bad by any means, but just lacking some edge for my taste. I will say that on a recent session I found myself using that guitar (Antiquities) for rhythm a lot, though - then switching to my ASAT or the SD Broadcaster guitar for leads.

At any rate - thanks for your thoughts on this.

Oh - I have ordered a Glendale bridge and set of HTS saddles to try with one of the benders. Now the question is, which one?

[tkingen]

Originally Posted by jjh37854

"The American Standard bridge will never ever get you to real Tele tone. Gotta have that thin ferrous bridge, the ashtray type."

Ya?, tell that to Brent Mason

I usually think of Brent Mason or the Diamond Rio guy (can't remember his name right now) as more of a fatter, modern tele tone and James Burton or Luther Perkins as being more in the vintage camp. It's all good!

[ramseybella]

I have been using Duncan Alnico II PRO for three years now and have come to love the creamy snappy tone on a three saddle bridge, a little tweaking
On the EQ of your amp helps you to appreciate this pickup.
Not Ice picky and not to dark sounds good with a compressor.
I would have to agree on the bridge, I changed my AS to a Vintage and WOW! POP, TWANG, Snap and Sustain.

[Mark Davis]

A callaham bridge added to an AM std is an improvment. A callaham bridge added to a vintage style tele makes it sound worse. AT least it did on the 2 guitars I tried it on.

The cheap $7.99 Fender bridge with steel saddles is what I like best.

[Bluesbob]

using the series position of a 4-way switch. Sounds like a Tele with more mids. Might be something else for you to consider.

[cacibi]

Got the Glendale bridge and HTS saddles on with the Antiquities......just an amazing difference. Really brought the pickups to life. I have all the twang I was missing before. Excuse me, I have to order another one....whoohooo!

[cacibi]

Okay - so now have the Glendale bridge and HTS saddles on both benders with SD Antiquities on one (Alnico II) and SD Broadcaster/Vintage Rhythm on the other (Alnico V).

As previously posted, the difference with the Antiquities was quite dramatic. Great increase in twang and overall classic tele tone.

The change to the Alnico V's was less dramatic. They're still very mid-heavy pups, which is as advertised and what you would expect from all the manufacturer information. No complaints in that department, they sound how they're supposed to - and with the Glendale bridge I get more sustain and additional 'piano' qualities to the overal tone. But the Antiquities sound SO good now, that I prefer them. Have a set of Fender OV's to try out in place of the Broadcaster. Not sure how I'll end up going. I like the classic tele sound of the Antiquities, but it's nice to have that mid-heavy tone of the Broadcaster for more rockin' tunes. I'm sure the OV's will be closer to the Antiquities, but I'm expecting from my research that they'll be a little brighter and maybe a nice middle-of-the-road choice. Anyway, more frankensteining to do!

[yegbert]

Thanks for the update, I remain interested in hearing how it's working out for you.

So which material type did you get in your Glendale bridges, magnetic or nonmagnetic?

In my experience, the A3 OVs have something different in their character than A2 or A5, and not in the same way that A2 and A5 differ from each other; maybe because they have some differences in material not just different percentages of the same materials.

For something in between the A2 and A5 pickups you have, I'd try a somewhat lower wind and/or smaller diameter polepiece A5-based pickup (as compared to the SD STL-1B "Broadcaster"); like an MIJ "vintage" style (comes in '69 RI paisley/flower Tele and others) or the Duncan STL-1 "Vintage '54". That's for one already made and fairly widely available, and a somewhat frugal approach. If budget allows, working with a good pickup winder can probably get you exactly what you want.

[cacibi]

Originally Posted by yegbert

Thanks for the update, I remain interested in hearing how it's working out for you.

So which material type did you get in your Glendale bridges, magnetic or nonmagnetic?

In my experience, the A3 OVs have something different in their character than A2 or A5, and not in the same way that A2 and A5 differ from each other; maybe because they have some differences in material not just different percentages of the same materials.

For something in between the A2 and A5 pickups you have, I'd try a somewhat lower wind and/or smaller diameter polepiece A5-based pickup (as compared to the SD STL-1B "Broadcaster"); like an MIJ "vintage" style (comes in '69 RI paisley/flower Tele and others) or the Duncan STL-1 "Vintage '54". That's for one already made and fairly widely available, and a somewhat frugal approach. If budget allows, working with a good pickup winder can probably get you exactly what you want.

Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't considered how the polepiece diameter would factor in.

I ended up going with the non-magnetic bridge. Some folks here indicated that they couldn't really tell the difference between the two types.