Alnico 3 vs. Alnico 5 magnets

[stechmann]

What's the difference between Alnico 3 and Alnico 5 magnets?

Thanks in advance
Frank

[RockinCarl]

Alnico 5 is a strong type of Alnico, and Alnico 3 is weaker than the 5.

[JohnnyCrash]

Alnico 5 generally has more output, Alnico 2 or 3 generally has a sweeter top end and interferes less with string vibration (added sustain).

The Alnico 3 seems to have more mids than the Alnico 2... at least in the pickups I've tried.

I like A2s and A3s, but A5s are in some of my guitars as well.

[jdfoosh357]

I asked Jason Lollar (pickup builder) the same question. As stated above, he said the alnico 5 magnets were stronger, meaning that they sound punchier.

He described the alnico 3's as weak/delicate. I told him I wanted a punchy agressive clean tele sound for country--he recommended alnico 5's. Specifically he recommended his '52 tele pickup set.

[benbo]

Hi, A3 is actually the weakest grade of alnico. Just FYI. :D

[steve s]

I know the AL3's sound sweet in the Tele neck position. Al the others I used (AL5's) sounded too boomy, and no clarity to the sound. AL3's are great for this.

[mark norwine]

Not that it matters, but I've always found it curious that AlNiCo 3 is even called "AlNiCo" inasmuch as it typically doesn't contain any cobalt.

Why not just call it "AlNi-3"?

http://www.permanentmagnetco.com/docs/tableii-1.pdf

[benbo]

Hi Mark, I have wondered this myself. I guess they just figured it is close to regular alnico and lumped it into the other grades so they could save a few bucks advertising or whatever. I just dont know.. :?

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by jdfoosh357

He described the alnico 3's as weak/delicate. I told him I wanted a punchy agressive clean tele sound for country--he recommended alnico 5's. Specifically he recommended his '52 tele pickup set.

Not really "weak", but definitely more subtle.

AlNiCo V has more midrange, so if you mean this when you say "punch", yeah... but they tend to be more aggressive (depending on the winding of course).

Funny - old 50s Telecaster's used AlNiCo 3. So I'm not sure why he'd call 'em "52s" at all... perhaps he aims for that sound in the winding, while using a different mag.

The '52 RI and Nocaster RI BOTH use AlNiCo 3.

AlNiCo 2 is even more subtle than AlNiCo 3. Subtle, meaning mellow. Sweeter top ends and the top end gets more edgey as you go up in number (which as mentioned has to do with the combination of the three metals Aluminum, Nickel, Cobalt - but usually also contains a bit of iron and copper)...

Part of this "mellowness" is due to the magnet's strength.

You'd think most of us rockers would prefer AlNiCo V for a more pushed midrange, BUT guys like Angus Young and Slash prefer AlNiCo II (Angus sig pickup is pecularly not used much by him, he uses older SGs with A2 mags). Of course these are humbucker players... but still.

Personally, I've got a wide variety of pickups with a range of the 3 main AlNiCos and Ceramics as well...

I prefer Alnico II's MOSTLY myself, but in my main Telecaster I am floored by the A3 magnet Fender Nocaster pickups... amps these days have all the gain you'd need, so it's nice to get some subtlety back... then again, my Jackson V with Ceramic mags sounds pretty dang cool too!

It's best to have personally tried all of the major kinds of pickups and judge for yourself... but hopefully we've all been helpfull here as well :)

[GUITARmole]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

You'd think most of us rockers would prefer AlNiCo V for a more pushed midrange, BUT guys like Angus Young and Slash prefer AlNiCo II (Angus sig pickup is pecularly not used much by him, he uses older SGs with A2 mags). Of course these are humbucker players... but still.

So you're saying the old Gibson humbuckers (and/or P90s) used A2 magnets? I thought Gibson used A5 magnets in the older pickups like the "Alnico 5" staple soapbar pickup in the neck of the first Les Paul Customs for instance?

It was also my understanding that the A3 actually sounded mellower than the A2 ??

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by GUITARmole

So you're saying the old Gibson humbuckers (and/or P90s) used A2 magnets? I thought Gibson used A5 magnets in the older pickups like the "Alnico 5" staple soapbar pickup in the neck of the first Les Paul Customs for instance?

It was also my understanding that the A3 actually sounded mellower than the A2 ??

The P90s were always A5. The very first early humbuckers were A2 (a few years later they went A5).

The A3 has a bit more bite to it than the A2.

[Roe]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Not really "weak", but definitely more subtle.

AlNiCo V has more midrange, so if you mean this when you say "punch", yeah... but they tend to be more aggressive (depending on the winding of course).

Funny - old 50s Telecaster's used AlNiCo 3. So I'm not sure why he'd call 'em "52s" at all... perhaps he aims for that sound in the winding, while using a different mag.

The '52 RI and Nocaster RI BOTH use AlNiCo 3.

AlNiCo 2 is even more subtle than AlNiCo 3. Subtle, meaning mellow. Sweeter top ends and the top end gets more edgey as you go up in number (which as mentioned has to do with the combination of the three metals Aluminum, Nickel, Cobalt - but usually also contains a bit of iron and copper)...

Part of this "mellowness" is due to the magnet's strength.

You'd think most of us rockers would prefer AlNiCo V for a more pushed midrange, BUT guys like Angus Young and Slash prefer AlNiCo II (Angus sig pickup is pecularly not used much by him, he uses older SGs with A2 mags). Of course these are humbucker players... but still.

Personally, I've got a wide variety of pickups with a range of the 3 main AlNiCos and Ceramics as well...

I prefer Alnico II's MOSTLY myself, but in my main Telecaster I am floored by the A3 magnet Fender Nocaster pickups... amps these days have all the gain you'd need, so it's nice to get some subtlety back... then again, my Jackson V with Ceramic mags sounds pretty dang cool too!

It's best to have personally tried all of the major kinds of pickups and judge for yourself... but hopefully we've all been helpfull here as well :)

Angus has always used A5 as have mal. ang's old SGs have patent number and t-top gibson pups - all are A5. Only some of the very first SGs had A2 pups, the later had A5

[jedku]

My take -- and I could be wrong:
Alinco 3s if you love the classic tele neck pup sound and play over-drive blues, clean, pop, clean jazz, strum chords, like acousticy clarity of tone, use .11ish strings and want the earliest tele sounds from the 50s. These pups will not saturate as quickly, they will give longer natural sustain. They were designed to avoid saturation (not the same as amp distortion or overdrive) and keep the magnets from retarding the string sustain. They are the straight-laced pups.

Alinco 5s if you love the tele treble pickup most and like a harsh chicken-pickin' banjo treble sound, if you use thin .009 strings, play lots of single line jazz or country melodies, or -- Heavens!--play with full amp distortion and secretly wish your fender was a gibson. The neck pup will saturate quickly with a slightly honking mid-range. Some might find the 5 better for jazz, being smokier and with less sustain. The 5 is almost like a humbucker -- though the long scale length of the axe and the single coil will always speak "Fender."

The key is to turn off your effects and really listen to the amplified sound of pick-up saturation and the quality of sustain (decay) as the plucked note trails off, which is different from any saturation/distortion/compression you might get from your amp or effects. Hear it and decide if you like it. If you plug in absolutely clean, it is very easy to hear the difference between 3s and 5s and form your own opinion.

I prefer the mellow, clear, hard-to-saturate, sustained sound of the 3s, if I had only one axe. They say "tele" to me. I grew up on rock and blues, rather than country and jazz. Love country, jazz and the 6, 7 and 9 chords now, but like the clear foundation 3s give to my sound.

[tjalla]

zombie thread! my eyes popped when I saw mark norwine's name come up.

[captcoolaid]

A3 will be a bit brighter in tone than an A5 will be. The A5 will have more actual output as opposed to the A3. A3 often can be more articulate specially in the right setting such as a Tele. I like all 3 mag types for Tele bridges and really like A2s in the neck.

[rokdog49]

My $.02.
Alnico 5 definitely more middy, especially overwound which they typically are. Great for Tom Petty rhythm stuff and definitely hotter.
A3 perfect for Early eagles and definitely brighter and more articulate. Definitely lower in output, again depending on how they are wound.

[Rod Parsons]

I prefer the A-fives because I like the power and some raunchiness that my 'older' Fender ov bridge pup has with the 5s.... If I want a really clean sound, I just turn down the volume, a tad, on the guitar,.... turn up the amp some, if necessary. Then I have power in reserve.. Both clean and dirty. My '1993' cs ov bridge pickup reads about 7.5 k ohms..

[gripweed]

Originally Posted by Roe

Angus has always used A5 as have mal. ang's old SGs have patent number and t-top gibson pups - all are A5. Only some of the very first SGs had A2 pups, the later had A5

Yep. Angus' tone is pure a5. I don't know why they use a2 in his signature pickup, unless they're going for a "aged" type tone.

[Elias Graves]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

The P90s were always A5. The very first early humbuckers were A2 (a few years later they went A5).

The A3 has a bit more bite to it than the A2.

A lot of this is just wrong.
P90s were A2s to begin with and switched to 5s later. The real sweet, mellow P90s you hear are likely older A2 versions or somebody's newer "vintage wind."
PAFs were all over the place. A2, 3, 4 AND 5s all made it in. I see the Paul Kossoff signature model has A3s in it.
Alnico magnets are graded.
A3 being the weakest, followed by A2, A4, A5 and A8. The stronger you go, in general, the more output you get, mids go up and highs go down.
A3s generally have a "hollower" sound with more scooped mids, bright highs and clear bass.
A5s give higher output, a drier sound and less distinct highs and overtones.
This all depends on other aspects of the pickups, though. Not hard and fast.

EG

[AJBaker]

Dude, you answered a 6 year old thread! Not that it is a bad topic though.