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Old February 25th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Pickup output question

Hello all

I own a MiM Blacktop Tele that I'm in the process of renovating. It's HH right now but my tastes have changed since purchasing this guitar. I know some say buy a new guitar but i never have a lump sum if spendable Cash so over time things like christmas an birthday money or gifts help with improving the guitar i own. Eventually i would like it to be a HSS Tele with a hot P-rail in the bridge, combined with a N3 noiseless tele neck and a vintage noiseless tele neck in the neck and mid position. So I have a few questions:

1. Will a tele neck pup fit in the Humbucker cavity? Im going to get a warmoth HSS pick guard (i know they say they don't fit blacktops but the one i got from them fits pretty fine) and mount it to that but will it fit in the pre routed hole?

2. Generally how do mid pickups work? I know the bridge is the hottest and the neck the lowest generally. Should i get two of the same for the neck and mid? Or is it okay to have different outputs. I know the N3 has an 8k resistance and the Vintage has 12k. What pickup should go in what position?

3. Does anyone know the output of the Hot P-Rail bridge pickup in all its configurations?

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Old February 25th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Is this a universal rout ? I'm confused. The P-Rails w be the bridge. Why the neck p/up in the bridge rout question ? EDIT:I was thinking SSH not HH... I just had the same problem w 2 Strats in 2 HB routes. I had to put them across the middle because of the mounting tabs. There are adapters for Strats to go in a HB ring, maybe Tele necks, it probably won't fit, if the guard puts it to far forward. How are you going to wire it ? I count 12 just parallel 2 p/up or single p/up combos using the P-Rail in all its configurations.

Last edited by Teleterr; February 25th, 2013 at 12:18 PM. Reason: misunderstanding
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Old February 25th, 2013, 12:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleterr View Post
Is this a universal rout ? I'm confused. The P-Rails w be the bridge. Why the neck p/up in the bridge rout question ? EDIT:I was thinking SSH not HH... I just had the same problem w 2 Strats in 2 HB routes. I had to put them across the middle because of the mounting tabs. There are adapters for Strats to go in a HB ring, maybe Tele necks. How are you going to wire it ? I count 12 just parallel 2 p/up or single p/up combos using the P-Rail in all its configurations.
What i want to do is put a tele neck pup in the middle and neck. Will a tele neck pup fit inside of the neck humbucker route if im mounting it to the pick guard?

Id wire it

1 neck
2 middle
3 neck bridge
4 middle bridge
5 bridge

I have two push/pulls that would control the P-rail for all the combos. Its something like

2 up: series
1up 1down: p90
Reverse of above: rail
2 down: series

Eventually id like it to be like one of these(crappy late night photoshop)

http://imgur.com/a/9sAeh

Which is your favorite?
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Old February 25th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The blacktop Tele doesn't have a middle pickup cavity, so you will have to modify the body of your guitar to fit a middle pickup. Once you have done that, modifying the neck pickup route if need be (as Teleterr says) should be pretty simple.

The N3 and Vintage Noiseless pickups have different magnets, so DCR doesn't tell you the whole story of their output. I don't think there's a hard set rule about pickup output. On one hand the middle position will have less excursion of the strings so a louder pickup should work there but on the other hand you have to play with the pickup heights to get the sounds you want anyway particularly the in between sounds. IMO the obsession about DCR and hotter pickups in the bridge is largely in part to the internet giving us the ability to obsess about it.. you can adjust output by playing with the pickup height.

I could only find this information but am unsure to its accuracy since it wasn't from SD website.
2 AlNiCo 8 bar magnets
with 4-conductor hookup cable
colour: black
DC Resistance, serial: 22.43 kOhm
DC Resistance, only Rail Coil: 8.62 kOhm
DC Resistance, only P-90 Coil: 13.81 kOhm
Resonant Peak, serial primary: 2.82 kHz
Resonant Peak, serial secondary: 6.48 kHz
Resonant Peak, parallel: 3.88 kHz
Resonant Peak, only Rail Coil: 3.21 kHz
Resonant Peak, only P-90 Coil: 6.64 kHz

Since noiseless strat pickups and a P-rails are in no way similar in design, the DCR isn't going to tell you anything. My guess.. the Hot P-rails are quite hot... hope this helps and ymmv.


I don't think you can get that wiring with a standard strat switch but you can easily get
Neck
Neck Bridge
Bridge
Bridge Middle
Middle


I personally like the white P-rail in the black pickup ring.. I fear that finding a new t-style bridge for that guitar might be difficult due to the bridge mounting pattern. I also personally would want the P-rail parallel sound from reading the SD copy.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waparker4 View Post
The blacktop Tele doesn't have a middle pickup cavity, so you will have to modify the body of your guitar to fit a middle pickup. Once you have done that, modifying the neck pickup route if need be (as Teleterr says) should be pretty simple.

The N3 and Vintage Noiseless pickups have different magnets, so DCR doesn't tell you the whole story of their output. I don't think there's a hard set rule about pickup output. On one hand the middle position will have less excursion of the strings so a louder pickup should work there but on the other hand you have to play with the pickup heights to get the sounds you want anyway particularly the in between sounds. IMO the obsession about DCR and hotter pickups in the bridge is largely in part to the internet giving us the ability to obsess about it.. you can adjust output by playing with the pickup height.

I could only find this information but am unsure to its accuracy since it wasn't from SD website.
2 AlNiCo 8 bar magnets
with 4-conductor hookup cable
colour: black
DC Resistance, serial: 22.43 kOhm
DC Resistance, only Rail Coil: 8.62 kOhm
DC Resistance, only P-90 Coil: 13.81 kOhm
Resonant Peak, serial primary: 2.82 kHz
Resonant Peak, serial secondary: 6.48 kHz
Resonant Peak, parallel: 3.88 kHz
Resonant Peak, only Rail Coil: 3.21 kHz
Resonant Peak, only P-90 Coil: 6.64 kHz

Since noiseless strat pickups and a P-rails are in no way similar in design, the DCR isn't going to tell you anything. My guess.. the Hot P-rails are quite hot... hope this helps and ymmv.

I don't think you can get that wiring with a standard strat switch but you can easily get
Neck
Neck Bridge
Bridge
Bridge Middle
Middle

I personally like the white P-rail in the black pickup ring.. I fear that finding a new t-style bridge for that guitar might be difficult due to the bridge mounting pattern. I also personally would want the P-rail parallel sound from reading the SD copy.
We have already begun routing for the mid position.

And thank you for that information. I do believe I will put the n3 in the neck and the vintage in the mid unless someone advises otherwise?

And that switch config would work as long as i can get the right combos, the order isnt too big of a deal.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Or just use a Superswitch. A friend used the bridge in place of the middle on the 5 way as soon as they came out.The N ll M always sounds muddy to him and me both. I'd go w the Vintage in the neck. I like to tweak , but a standard Neck tone always seems best. M or B is where I try new tones since the M is kinda weird any way.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Teleterr View Post
Or just use a Superswitch. A friend used the bridge in place of the middle on the 5 way as soon as they came out.The N ll M always sounds muddy to him and me both. I'd go w the Vintage in the neck. I like to tweak , but a standard Neck tone always seems best. M or B is where I try new tones since the M is kinda weird any way.
Both pups that i want are neck pups. You think i should put the vintage in the neck over the n3? The n3 has less output then the vintage
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Old February 25th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rab1s View Post
Both pups that i want are neck pups. You think i should put the vintage in the neck over the n3? The n3 has less output then the vintage
The DC reading has no output correlation, ever, unless its the same wire on the same p/up. I think its different gauges rather than winding amounts here.I haven't heard the N3 , but the VN is very trebley so thats why I was recommending it for the Neck. If you have heard both in the neck just use your favorite. If not , maybe check out different models w those p/ups at a music store. I would think both would be about the same output since powerful neck p/ups aren't a marketing thing. Actually either for N or M then if it seems like it would be better opposite due to tone or power , switch 'em next string change.
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