Roy Buchanan

[Kingtone]

There has been alot of talk (typing) around here about Roys tone. I've been chasing it for a long time now. Of course to nail the tone you have to have the right combination. Guitar, amp, and so on. I think I've finally got the pickup part of the puzzle filled in.
I ordered a set of "Nancy"pickups from Fred Stuart and Virtual Vintage Guitars. Have mercy! These pickups are amazing, just the right amount of mircrophonics without being out of control. Pick harmonics jump right out, bite and twang on the bridge and when you dig in they have all the grind and grit you could ask for. The neck is nice and full without being dark or muddy. Also the neck and bridge are not RPRW so the middle position sounds right.
The tone is real,real close to what I hear on Roys early 70s stuff. (Second Album)


Customer service from V V G was great, Jason answered all my e-mails and phone calls and turn around time was about 2 weeks.....

[BB]

Sweet! Isn't it just great to have a set of pups that sound so good?!! Much like the Hamel, I have yet to hear nary a discouraging word about Freds pups.

If I may ask, did these replace the Duff's? IF so, what are the tonal differences between the two. What do like/dislike ( or "like better" I quess would be a better way to phrase it ) about one set over the other?

[Kingtone]

The Stuarts replaced a set of Duncan flat pole antiquities.
The Duncans are real nice, I just think that the Stuarts really nail Roys' vibe. The bridge has more bite without being harsh and the harmonics jump right out. The neck has this full rich tone and seems to have a little more definition and clarity. Also the Duncans are RPRW and they dont sound right to me in the middle pos....

I also have a set of Duff "Nancys" that I'm going to put in my #2 Tele. They'll replace my Duff AlNiCo III 7k set.

[BB]

Originally Posted by Kingtone

The Stuarts replaced a set of Duncan flat pole antiquities.
The Duncans are real nice, I just think that the Stuarts really nail Roys' vibe. The bridge has more bite without being harsh and the harmonics jump right out. The neck has this full rich tone and seems to have a little more definition and clarity. Also the Duncans are RPRW and they dont sound right to me in the middle pos....

I also have a set of Duff "Nancys" that I'm going to put in my #2 Tele. They'll replace my Duff AlNiCo III 7k set.

Gotcha...thanks for the prompt reply. I love the antiquities, but have yet to try and Duff, Hamel or Stuarts. It constantly amazes me how different magnets, wire and turns can sound so different in the same basic design.

I would be interested to hear how they ( Stuarts/Duffs ) compare to the vintage wind Electrokraft set I have. The neck is around 6.8 and the bridge is around 7.9. This is the set I look to for what I consider the "classic" tele tone. The bridge has a wonderful piano like bass response....much chime, clarity and a wonderful breathy quality. The neck is a sweet one. Similar to the stock pup in my 71 tele, but with a touch more clarity and sweetness. Both respond to the guitars tone control
( like Lollars do ) better than most pups.

My dream job would be a pickup tester. Pop one in...give it a go and evaluate it.....bask in the sonic glory....take it out, pop another in.....boring to some, but a dream to me........

[Kingtone]

What amps are you playin thru? Mine are:
66' Super Reverb
Tweed Pro Junior
60s Silvertone 1472
What type of music do you play....

[Buck Cannon]

Whoa hold those horses-- please cool those jets--

Please folks listen to me for a minute here please hear me out,
!
Theres been a huge mistake here,

What Kingtone has -- is my personal custom spec pup's availble through "my" approval only and along with Freds & Jasons. From what I was told by Fred -- this post should have never been posted here-- simply put it was "not fair to me to do this to me or to Jason & Fred" sorry Dan,, your still my important friend here ..


PLEASE FOLKS "they" are not a public item or is there any such "Product called Nancys or 2324's over at Virtual Vintage--for sale if you call.. there is only Blackgaurds. and maybe a custom wind here and there depending on the 2 powers that be,
and those Blackgaurds sound like what the majority of the Blackgaurds sounded like back then, Fred & Maybe Hamel too.?? spent years dialing them in.
FYI-- they do Country much better then my personal custom spec. set. ( "Don Mares specs") mine suck at Country.. my country tele has current fair Blackgaurds
My set does my personal style which to me and my ears simulates Roy Buchanan while going through my rig and my settings... I should not say "set" because I only use the bridge... the neck has not gone the distance and I need to try another time .. and as soon as I try another amp its all lost and does not transfer amp to amp.. its a whole package that works there is no one part greater then another.


those so-called 2324's or Nancys are "all-my creations" and were brought to life only because of my 2 year personal need and quest and also I literliy spent thosands $$$$$$ of my dollars along with some kind of super human amazing abilty to keep a Roy Buchanan Tribute band alive-- and be able to tweek guitars to work like they should in order to play in a style similar to Roys. it helps to be a tech..It also helps to be a pickup designer, BUCK CANNON BAND has been the hardest band to book in So-Cal in my life.. cause not one club owner ever heard of Roy Buchanan.. and not many patrons have either-- so its been a long hard road.. no following and very few gigs..
I can't even get openers cause the clubs say were too good and will blow away the main act.. so I'm in between a rock and a hard place-- I think Roy put up with this same bull-crap too.. It may have just as well been one of his many "things" that may have put him over the edge if thats true? that he took his own life?

last thing I need my friends,
is my buddies selling my "personal artist spec pups" and not even giving me a single ounce of credit or mentioning my band,

~~~HELP~~~ME~~please my friends..
Cause My band needs all the support it can get,
I'm really a cheap $$ sell out -- in trade for for an (for what its worth) "artist series"/ endorsed product ... tied to Roy Buchanan & myself Buck Cannon I'll I ask for in return is props and links to my bands site.

FYI- that was my deal with OC DUFF-- so ya all know.. he got to run with it -- a gift of friendship from me- to create a lifelong friend-- and i got props for partial R&D and some nice kind words said about my band and a link..-- I don't ask much..
Just ask my X work place LACE MUSIC they got me for 17new products / 21 SKUS my R&D design work... I never got a single raise or a dime royalty--
so I'm watching my back more then ever these days, this MUSIC business as some of you all know to well, It turns best friend into Mad fighting dogs in a half a second... I'm totally into keeping all my friends for life-- the heck with cash-- ya can't take it with ya.

Jason and Fred would never do that to me anyways.. sell me out-- or go public with my personal specs.. with out helping my band or asking me first..

which BTW.. belive it or not helps keep Roys music alive and helps create an awareness to it.. thats what I'm all about, It aint about me its always been about Roy!


I HOPE THAT VIP freindships to my band may not end up being lost here over next to nothing here..

HORRIBLE things happen in the music bussiness... and so lets not turn this into another causilty OK?

GOSH I'm already a causilty of LACE -- I gave Lace a Million dollars in 5 years and probally another in the next 5 years---and yet I hold no grudge or hard feelings.. I let it Go--( Gone whoosh--bye-bye)
I still like those guys they were cool to me for 5 years and friends almost family.. somedays they were my family!
Stuff Happen's-- ya have to make the best of life and move ahead.. or ya get old and bitter-- and there's probally already one on a bus bench near you. LOL!

MODERATORS-- wipe out this thred please.
Peace.
Don Mare



Stuart's --NANCYS-- No! No! --not yet please!

[GuitarJonz]

Originally Posted by Buck Cannon

Just ask my X work place LACE MUSIC they got me for 17new products / 21 SKUS my R&D design work... I never got a single raise or a dime royalty--

Unfortunately, thats the way it works in the business world...most anything you design while on the payroll of your employer is THEIR intellectual property, and they get all the credit, unless you have some special contractual arrangement spelled out beforehand.

Cool on the tone search though, the Nancy pups from OC Duff are great, and I'm sure the custom winds from Stuart are fine as well.

[Chris S.]

Hey Don/Buck, please check your email (the "tonemagic" address on your Website). Thx, CS

[Boudreaux]

What on earth was that all about.

[fullerplast]

What on earth are you talking about Don? Did you sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement with Fred to keep secret the number of turns of wire and the magnet type that will "duplicate" Roy Buchanan's tone? It sounds like you want to authorize the sale of each of these special pickups to people that will promote your band?

Is this an agreement you made with Fred ahead of time and he is not following the terms of your contract, or are you just assuming that since you ordered a custom wind, that it would be kept secret from everyone else? I gotta say your post is very confusing.....

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by fullerplast

I gotta say your post is very confusing.....

That's being extremely charitable. Extremely!

[BB]

Originally Posted by Kingtone

What amps are you playin thru? Mine are:
66' Super Reverb
Tweed Pro Junior
60s Silvertone 1472
What type of music do you play....

I use a Winfield Thomas High Power Elizabeth. Very blackfaceish. 2 6L6's, 12AX7, 12AT7 and a GZ34 rectifier.
Roland BC-60 Bluescube
Dean Markley RM-40
Traynor YCV-40

Music wise, it's blues, blues, blues.... a bit of country, rock, altered tuning stuff, slide.....a wee bit of jazz. My gigging days are pretty much over but I do play a few times each week with the worship team at our church.

As for Bucks post, I'm not interested in buying those pickups....I was just curious about the tone and how they compared to others.

I'm very happy with the Dimarzio VV Hot T bridge and Dimarzio PAF Classic in my #1 tele, ( and believe me, if someone told me a year ago I'd be using Dimarzios, I would have laughed in their face! ) the stock offerings in my 71 and the Electrokrafts in another partscaster.

Still......I'd like to try as many different sets as I can before I die!! Will it happen...no. But I'm gonna give it a good go. Unfortunately, it sound like "Nancys" are out of the questions. Perhaps I can persuade GFS to wind me a "Nancy Boy" pickup.....I can just see the tone reveiws...."Dynamic, yet sensitive and understanding. Somewhat masculine sounding with a swishy high end......once you hear these babies, you'll have an uncontrollable desire to re-arrange your furniture, get a small dog as a fashion accessory and put duvet covers on your cushions......"

I think Roy was a fantastic player. His tone and style were peerless. That said, ( and I'm sure I'm in the minority here ) I can only take him in small doses. For me, a little Roy goes a long way.

[BB]

Originally Posted by Boudreaux

What on earth was that all about.

Once again...."Elfin Magic".......

[sidneystreet]

Buck Cannon, where did Kingtone mention you, or ANYTHING about your input into the pickups he bought from Fred Stuart? He said he consulted directly with Jason to buy pickups that sound similar to "Nancy." How can you fault him for doing exactly what you have done over, and over, with different pup winders. Each time you then declare the result the most authentic "Nancy" tone yet. That is until the next month when you try again with a different pup winder.

Do you now own the rights to the usage of the word "Nancy?" Maybe you need to take a step back from your imagined importance in the legacy of Roy Buchanan, and give us all a break.

[Buck Cannon]

HERES WHAT happened,

Fred wound me a few Custom set's in the process he asked that THE WHOLE WORLD does not call there suddenly wanting Custom winds, that he really did not want to be known for doing Custom Winds. or did he ever want to become a full blown pickup manafacture.. ALA Duncan style.
He does feel his BLACKGAURD SET is the quintesintual tele tone of that Era..

MY TRIP OR DEAL is..
NO ONE HAD NANCYS TONE!! PERIOD.. everyone guessed and they all failed miserably onstage while atempting to perform Roys nancy tone.

I had to go get my hands on Nancy herself ( Luck of the draw and thru prayer!)and play her and actually plug her in.. ( Note nancy was locked away in a glass case-- I had to do some slick talkin')
I was also allowed to measure the pickups. thery were far differnt then anyone guess..
I went home and R&D-ied and went on stage playing ROY BUCHANANS music untill I found a combo that worked..

this was 8 months of my time and money.

I don't need no Lawyers or papers saying my friends in Tone ( Brothers) should not sell me down the river-- thats bull crap-- friends are here for life and should never be out to squash one another intentially... and
Fred nor Jason would ever do this to me..

They do not want to market a ROY BUCHANAN/BUCK CANNON pickup-- Fred don't want stuck making them -- there harder to make and time consuming, and he especially he does not want anyone thinking that there better then Blackgaurds... they are not...

This is not your A Typicial TELE tone its more then likely one of a kind... a fluke.... it was very hard to get all the componits just right..and when we did we knew why Roy's tones was what it was..


Basicially they do not want to sell this set, Fred does not want to run them.. and I don't want them to do it -- unless I get CREDIT for development.

lastly this thread should have never been posted as such!! ANOUNCING A NON exsistant PRODUCT THAT WAS NOT EVER TO BE MADE PUBLIC INFO..

this was a rude slap in my face-- and I'll try to understand my good friends reasons behind it and accept it. and continue our friendship and move ahead.

If Fred and Jason change there mind and decide there is a market void that needs filled here..and Fred wants to spend more time doing another chore.. then I'm 100% sure they will do me right and give me some WELL DESIRVED credit here..

Put it this way I'm an Signed recording Artist , those are my specs to get my tone.. even though it suppose to be Roys tone.. regaurdless its my creation.. no one knew how to get it-- I put that tone back on this planet earth.. ME- Little ol' me.. no one had it right.. it took my quest to get it right and the use of my band onstage to double check it.

Seymour Duncan's Custom does take his artist specs and put other names on them and market them, but at least you can tell it was from that artist. even though the name was cleverly disguiesed..

all I ever want is my NAME or a close facisimily on something that I've poured thousands of dollars and time and PRAYERS into.

no one was BUYING so called NANCY pups and sounding this close to NANCY untill I came along.. PERIOD! I treid them all and the Botuque winders all supplied me with there best guess... nothing really captured what nancy was capable off.. the just hinted on it.. it took me playing Nancy and taking readings.

I always wanted Jason and Fred to sale them and just give me credit-- but from the starting gate they never wanted too and they never wanted this conversation we are having here to apear in public.

there ya go--
I always wanted all you guys to have NANCY--TONE,
I'm very open with all my stuff-- I like to in-rich life-- not deplete it!
I just hit this ROCK and it looks like it may crumble and go our way -- or it may just piss Fred and Jason off -- kill friendships and slam doors..
will see..?

[LEFT-ON]

I put that tone back on this planet earth.. ME- Little ol' me.. no one had it right..

LOL.... Ego check.

BTW....this is the funniest thing I've ever read on this forum. Congrats.

[Buck Cannon]

hey Bro,
NO EGO about it.. thats the Gospel truth..
belive me If you knew what I knew about Roys pickup and what Leo Fender did to it differntialy on the day it was made you would agree. no one would have ever got it right (EVER) if it was not for my pushing foward to capture it and and having the worlds only Roy Buchanan type band..

I have no EGO'

I do have feelings though and whats fair is fair..
I've always been treted fair and thats all I'll ever ask..

[fullerplast]

After reading this thread and this one: http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t...ighlight=nancy, I think I am starting to understand that your gripe is actually with Fred for selling "Nancy" pickups without giving you credit and a link to your band's website. You were OK with OC Duff selling "Nancy" pickups because he gave you a link. Is that it?

BTW, like many of us here, I enjoy reading about all things related to Roy. I remember when you actually got the chance to measure Roy's guitar, and I still remember your DC resistance measurement of 237K on the bridge pickup. It's a shame you didn't get the real value, it might have saved you some time.

[sidneystreet]

The two elements that produced Roy Buchanan's sound were his heart, and his soul. To imply that a fluky pickup from Leo Fender was such a factor in him achieving his "tone" is insulting. He could have played any of the Teles from his lifetime and created the same amazing music. The tone may have been slightly different, but would not have made any difference. NONE of us spend time listening to lame guitarists with phenomenal tone.

Roy separated himself from the average player through his creativity and expressiveness. Each of us could have played our whole gigging lives through Roy's rig, and we'd still be right where we are now.

[Drak]

I seem to remember a story about Danny Gatton rewinding the pkps in Nancy and Roy claimed he ruined the tone of the guitar, he said it sounded like crap when he got it back, and that's what started the hard feelings between them, or had something to do with it anyway.

So if that's true, then what you're chasing/reading/measuring is -actually- the rewind job Gatton did to the pkps, no?

It would explain why you seem to sense something different about those pkps in particular that differ from the standard Fender wind, it would be the 'Gatton' (probably) handwound job, hehehe...

Now, Danny DID do a lot of tinkering on guitars, so the story could hold water.

Can anyone here give that story some verification?