Will pickups detect wood types (acoustics etc) ?

[moonman2]

I recently heard a comment from someone who said that guitar pickups (being magnets) really dont care what type of woods and materials your guitar is made of ONCE IT'S PLUGGED IN because they are magnets and therefore wether you have alder, ash, mahogany, maple or rosewood etc, it's makes no difference to the electrical sound whatsoever once the guitar is plugged in. He also claims that experiments with an oscilliscope can prove this.
I'm wondering how true this is, and if it is true, then electrically, wood types are irrelevant.
True ?
Discuss.

[Mightyaxeman]

Ask that person to explain how the same pickup mounted on a solid body and a hollow body sound so completely different.

[moonman2]

mmm although I assume there would be a difference in the solid vs hollow etc; is that the responsibility of the wood though ?

[Telenator]

There are so many little things that make a big difference in the way a guitar sounds.

Something as small, and simple as the nut slots being incorrectly cut can have a very noticable affect on the sound.

When you combine that condition with all the other variables that go into a guitar, each having the potential to alter the sound significantly, it becomes obvious, to me anyway, that a particular guitar sound is "the sum of it's parts."

That said, going through all the tiny details in the way a guitar is built, and then set-up, you can change the sound of a guitar simply by making adjustments and refinements.

However, these changes are NOT guaranteed to make improvements in the tone. Just changes.

All this aside, everyone evaluates tone differently and hence the effects of making changes will be percieved by everyone differently.

The best thing any player can do is get to know what they like. Forget about what everyone else says, and go about the business of learning to play better. A guitar of great tonal potential is still useless in the hands of someone uncapable of releaseing that potential.

[Mightyaxeman]

Originally Posted by moonman2

mmm although I assume there would be a difference in the solid vs hollow etc; is that the responsibility of the wood though ?

Wood, plastic, solid, hollow. Whats the difference if the pickup is (according to this person you know) just a magnet.

[moonman2]

This was interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAjPaxpVOw&feature=plcp

[Teleterr]

I had a self made guitar. A long piece of Maple w the brass bridge/string holder mounted at the end of the board. Aluminum fingerboard ala Todd. So called thru the body neck. I glued on SG shaped wings for the body out of Pine. Then I switched to Mahogany. Big difference in sound, even w a metal fingerboard and the strings mounted totally on a one piece of Maple. Anyone who can't hear body wood either has bad ears or a psychological concept of sameness a hell of a lot broader than mine.

[Teleterr]

To really bring out the wood sound, hard mount the p/up to the body w wood screws and washers for height shimming. Brass doesn't rust and sounds good.(I'm not saying steel sounds different,I've just used brass.) The p/up vibrates along w the body, so the time lag between that and the direct string sensing gives a real 3D accoustic space vibe to the sound.

[D.Allen]

Bottom line is the wood will make a difference as many other parts will. The resonance from energy waves from the strings moving through the magnetic fields gets effected by many things to some degree. All the parts come together to create the sum, even the hands that play the stings effect the tone.

[Beachbum]

SHORT ANSWER - No (according to my beliefs)

LONG ANSWER - Who knows. It's all speculation anyway.

CORRECT ANSWER - Who cares. No matter who is right at the end of this discussion your guitar will still sound the same.

[ice_pick]

It really depends on the pickup. A proper waxed potted Fender pickup will not sense acoustic tones to a large degree.

A Teisco pickup on the other hand, not factory potted, will pickup both. The coil is slightly vibrating like in a microphone, hence the term microphonic. I had ones where you can easily speak into them and you sound like Darth Vader through the amp. They usually sound rather good, but they feedback like a mic too lol. The wood probably has more impact with pickups like that.

[Teleterr]

Originally Posted by ice_pick

It really depends on the pickup. A proper waxed potted Fender pickup will not sense acoustic tones to a large degree.

A Teisco pickup on the other hand, not factory potted, will pickup both. The coil is slightly vibrating like in a microphone, hence the term microphonic. I had ones where you can easily speak into them and you sound like Darth Vader through the amp. They usually sound rather good, but they feedback like a mic too lol. The wood probably has more impact with pickups like that.

Thats the hard mount vibe... Even w a floating p/up the body wood always transmits its tone to the strings and the p/up always picks that up. Obviously the p/up doesn't pickup the wood directly, but the friend is saying that p/ups always sound the same, which is sky blue ridiculous, since no 2 guitars sound the same.Or what is his point ? If hes looking at a scope he needs to look at each harmonic seperately, then he'll see a difference.

[andyjingram]

Surely the pickup only uses the movement of the string to shift those electrons round, but the wood is perhaps affecting the way the string behaves when plucked?

We all know a PAF in a Les Paul sounds different to a PAF in a Strat, so while the wood (and/or other constuction features) might not directly affect the pickup, it presumably affects what the pickup is reacting to.

[donh]

The pickups are mounted to the wood, the strings are mounted to the wood, the tuning keys are mounted to the wood, the bridge is mounted to the wood, the strap buttons are mounted to the wood, everything on the guitar is mounted to the wood.

In fact (go ahead, argue this - I'll be off playing the damn guitar and sound just like me, k?) everything on the guitar is mounted to everything else on the guitar and ALL these parts will in some way affect the vibrations of the strings in some way. Even if your vaunted measurement system fails to measure it. Even if you don't think so.

The better the pickups, the more *I* can notice this. *you* may listen wherever you wish. Your friend with the oscilloscope likes pushing your buttons.

[sir humphrey]

You crazy guys - no, wood has no effect.

Those arguing that the wood affects vibration of the guitar and therefore the tone? Really?

How much do you think a loud bass and kick drum through a PA, in a crowded room, with a sprung stage affects the vibration of your guitar?

The answer is - a hell of a lot more than the wood. So does your guitar sound different live than in a studio? Does it fundamentally alter the tone?

People think mahogany is warm because Les Paul's are made of mahogany and they have: humbuckers. Teles are ash and they have: bright single coils.

It's the power of suggestions and the gullibility of most guitarist that keeps this particular marketing trick alive.

I've said it before - I'm a fan of Mark Knopfler. He has played and recorded Strats made of Ash, Alder, Birch and Mahogany.

If anyone can tell me - purely by listening - which wood is used in which song on the first three albums, you can have all my guitars.

Mugs, the lot of you.

Im thinking of marketing a wood simulator pedal, settings of mahogany, alder, ash and basswood. Yours for £500 - it will definitely improve your tone. Any takers?

[andyjingram]

So, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between a Les Paul with a humbucker and a Tele with the same humbucker. Is that what you are suggesting? All you will ever hear from a guitar is the sound of a string and whichever pickup is under it? Really?

Does a bolt neck vs glued in sound any different?

*EDIT*

This isn't intended as confrontational, although it might kind of look like it! It's just that everything I have experienced about different guitars is that the construction makes a huge difference. I have even installed the same pickup in multiple guitars and been surprised by just how much they retain their own character, alongide that of the pickup.

[sir humphrey]

Originally Posted by andyjingram

So, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between a Les Paul with a humbucker and a Tele with the same humbucker. Is that what you are suggesting? All you will ever hear from a guitar is the sound of a string and whichever pickup is under it? Really?

No - bridge, scale length etc play a part. But Tele made of mahogany would sound like a Tele made of ash all other things being equal.

I made a joke of it - but don't you think it odd that in the world of modelling no-one models wood? Why? Because there's nothing to model - no one can detect a difference that can be registered by the human ear.

Psychoacoustics plays a big part in it. Our ears are amazing things and shape what we hear depending on our mindset.

If you live by a trainline, eventually you stop hearing the trains. Literally stop hearing them, not just stop noticing them. Your brain instructs your ears to filter out the sound of trains.

If you try to listen for something - expecting mahogany to sound warm for instance - your brain will "listen" for warmth and find it. That's why some people "hear" wood when they know what the wood is, but no one does when they don't and no scientific instruments can detect differences. You do "hear" a difference - but it's an audio illusion, like an optical illusion.

Sorry if im pissing on people's chips, but this is one of those rare guitar questions that really does have a right answer - wood makes no difference to sound on an electric. It's proven beyond doubt and not really worth dragging up time and again.

[PinewoodRo]

"Im thinking of marketing a wood simulator pedal, settings of mahogany, alder, ash and basswood. Yours for £500 - it will definitely improve your tone. Any takers?"

That's a great idea. You could have a 'grain' knob for open and closed and a 'finish' knob for nitro or poly!

[andyjingram]

I've copied the edit I made above, as I was obviously making it as you posted!

This isn't intended as confrontational, although it might kind of look like it! It's just that everything I have experienced about different guitars is that the construction makes a huge difference. I have even installed the same pickup in multiple guitars and been surprised by just how much they retain their own character, alongide that of the pickup.

It is kind of pertinent though, as the pickup moving example would be my main take on this. Exact same pickup, which I pulled from a really chunky sounding Les Paul. I fully expected that pickup to sound just as mean in the Strat, but it didn't. It sounded like a slightly thicker version of that Strat. And for all the pickups I've put in that Les Paul, it has always been a variation on that first tone it had.

We agree that other elements of the construction will affect the way a guitar sounds (you mention the scale length and bridge above) but none of those directly affect the pickup itself. They must somehow affect what gets to the amp though.

I agree that the 'tone of wood' is not the science it's cracked up to be. I've had some experiences which fall into the mold (an ash Tele with a maple board which was too bright, and one with an alder body and rosewood board which remedied the situation) and those which don't (an SG which was nasal and wiry, and a mahogany thinline tele which was as snappy as hell). I won't say that 'mahogany will make a guitar warmer', but I would still say that a particular piece of wood will shape the way a guitar sounds to some degree, despite not directly affecting the pickup itself. A concrete guitar must sound different to a plastic one, right?

[Beachbum]

Originally Posted by andyjingram

A concrete guitar must sound different to a plastic one, right?

Although that seems, on its face, to be a reasonable common sense analogy it's about the same thing as saying that driving an automobile made of Jello is going to be a lot different than driving one made of steel. Although that is certainly true Jello, just like concrete, has absolutely no characteristics that relate in any meningful way to the performance of automobiles, or guitars for that matter.