Newbie question - Analysing Pickup Numbers...output etc.

[TB Tele]

New to electric guitars and changing pickups for the first time ever. I'm a very analytical person by nature and am enjoying learning about pickups. I'm replacing all of the pickups in my Nashville and have narrowed my choices down to Area T's. Haven't decided on standard ot hot in the bridge yet. My style of music is 90s alternative, punk rock, some classic rock.

Since it is not possible to actually here all combination's prior, I've started looking at the output number on the DiMarzio site and trying to make sense of them.

Example:

Area T (Neck)
7.0 Treb
5.5 Mid
6.0 Bass
95 Output

Area T (Bridge)
7.5 Treb
6.5 Mid
6.0 Bass
175 Output

Area T HOT (Bridge)
7.0 Treb
6.0 Mid
6.0 Bass
238 Output


QUESTIONS: Is there a sort of "Formula" when trying to determine a good setup? My observation is that the treble-mid-bass numbers are similar and the Outputs vary quite a bit.

1. Should I look for a middle pickup that has an output somewhere in the middle of the neck and bridge?

Example:
Neck is 95 output and Bridge is 175....should I shoot for something with around 135 output in the middle?

Neck is 95 output and Bridge is 238....should I shoot for something with around 165 output in the middle?

2. Should I shoot for a middle pickup that is similar in treb-mid-bass "ratios" or is variety more desirable?

Example:

Area 67
9.5 treb
4.0 mid
3.0 bass
120 output

Virtual Vintage 54
8.0 treb
5.5 mid
5.5 bass
140 output

Observation - The VV 54 is has closer "ratios" to the neck and bridge and output is 20 higher than Area 67. Not sure what to make of it.

Am I over analyzing it or are the numbers really important to consider?


Thank you in advance for any light that you can shed on the issue.

[Tim Armstrong]

Folks often refer to the DC resistance of pickups, but that's kind of like comparing different bowls of soup by temperature, in that it's only REALLY relevant when everything else (materials, design, etc) are identical.

I guess the mV output numbers could be useful in comparing how much signal a pickup puts out, but in 38 years of messing around with guitars, I've never used that kind of information, at least partially because it hasn't been available, but mostly because it hasn't been relevant to my only question about a pickup: how does it SOUND?

Tim

[TB Tele]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I guess the mV output numbers could be useful in comparing how much signal a pickup puts out, but in 38 years of messing around with guitars, I've never used that kind of information, at least partially because it hasn't been available, but mostly because it hasn't been relevant to my only question about a pickup: how does it SOUND?

Tim

Thanks for the reply. In a perfect world you could play and hear every combination of pickup prior to buying I suppose. But I'm trying to make a decision without having the option of hearing them all first.

So, in your opinion the numbers are not relevant in making the decision?

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by TB Tele

So, in your opinion the numbers are not relevant in making the decision?

They're only relevant when comparing otherwise identical (or very similar) pickups. Higher DC resistance in such examples would tend to be hotter (higher output) and have more midrange, while lower DC resistance would tend to be lower output but sweeter and more full-range.

"Tend to" being the important qualifier!

Tim

[Rob DiStefano]

listen to tim.

yer part of legions of guitarists looking for some common thread in ALL pickups, and that's like a don quixote quest for something that doesn't exist.

the only true way of knowing what will or will not work for you in a pup is to test it out in yer own guitar, through yer own kit. yes, that's a gamble of sorts for most folks and why pups are bought and sold almost as fast as guitars. even listening to demo pup mp3 sound bytes has little to do with you, your guitar and your outboard rig.

so, if at all possible do some real word testing, and if that's not feasible, decide on either true single coil or some form of noiseless pup and just go for it .... good luck!

i'll add ... the only type of pup that can offer some semblance of dcr comparison is a true single coil that uses a vintage build, with common a5 mags and 42awg wire. the variances from pup design will then mostly wire turn count, wire tension and wire layering - precise wire type *may* also matter. therefore, and to a fair degree, dcr will typically mean something in terms of the balance of treble to midrange tone. less turns, more treble and more turns, more midrange. i'm speaking in generalities, but the concept is very comparative, imo.

[TB Tele]

I am listening to him, just trying to understand. I am very new to all of this. So a lot of common knowledge for most is new to me.

Based on your last comment, Tim, it seems you would prefer the lower output Area T over the higher output Area T Hot. As it would have more overall range, therefore more versatile?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by TB Tele

I am listening to him, just trying to understand. I am very new to all of this. So a lot of common knowledge for most is new to me....

imo, for the very most part, all that pup specification data is more selling hype than happening. you will NEVER know what any pup, particularly the noiseless types, will sound like unless you test 'em out. there's a ton of hype associated with all things guitar. take that to the bank, unfortunately.

[dsutton24]

What don't you like about your stock pickups? What combinations of pickups do you use most often? For example, if you are on bridge+ middle, you probably don't want a hot bridge pickup.

Something to consider: There are tons of sound possibilities that are available to you by twiddling knobs, changing strings, experimenting with pickup heights, etc., especially with a Nashville. Not that there's anything wrong with changing pickups, but if you'll check the classified ads here there's seldom a day that goes by without a new set of pickups turning up that didn't cure whatever ill, or didn't deliver that magic tone. Pickup choice just doesn't lend itself to the analytical approach very well.

[TB Tele]

Honestly, the guitar was purchased used. I bought it because I like the look of the Tele. My favorite artist plays a few of them and my father has a sweet Tele Plus that has Lace Sensor Golds.

I figured that 3 pickups would be better than 2 (I know a lot of people will say this is not that case, maybe they are right). The one I bought has a Lil 59 in the middle and I think it is the wrong pickup in the wrong position.

The number one reason i am switching pickups is because the hum is so loud that I don't want to play it. My Dad's Tele Plus is perfectly quiet. My initial idea was to purchase Lace Sensors because they were so quiet. After spending time on this board, I realized there was no love for them and it seems almost sacrilegious to put them on a Tele.

I don't have any other experience or brand loyalty. Just looking for a good sounding guitar with "noiseless" pickups.

[Derek Kiernan]

Bill Lawrence makes noiseless pickups that capture some of the most desirable qualities of great conventional single coils, with uncompromised highs and astounding clarity. I'd suggest browsing his offerings.

[Rockdog]

Originally Posted by Derek Kiernan

Bill Lawrence makes noiseless pickups that capture some of the most desirable qualities of great conventional single coils, with uncompromised highs and astounding clarity. I'd suggest browsing his offerings.

Indeed, but do make sure you go to the real Bill Lawrence: www.wildepickups.com

Avoid Bill Lawrence USA like the plague. He an impostor.

[robt57]

Before you go turning everything PICKUP upside down in a newly acquired guitar of which type you are not used to...

1) HUM: How close are you sitting to the amp and other devices?

2) "wrong pickup in the wrong position." What is your baseline? and what do you think you are looking for?

3) how are the existing PUPs set up, height etc.

4) Tell us what you are playing or expecting as far as response from the Tele and an electric guitar generally. It is OK if you do not know yet, you would not be alone. ;)

General comments:
The lil 59 could with a mini switch or push pull POT go in 3 different directionw, one or more of which may qualify to you as "right pickup in the right position.

As said the numbers mean very little beyond 6k VS 12k maybe, what voice are you looking for for this Tele is the real question. And are you experienced enough to know what to expect from other pickups let alone what is in there already? I say this not as a critique but to make the point throwing $$ at it should probably the last resort, not the first.

[Piotr]

These DiMarzio numbers are just depiction of actual measurements. They do not express anything physically meaningful, AFAIK. I second the recommendation to read Bill Lawrence's information on pickups.