Pick-ups: low and hot = high and not?

[Jupiter]

I have a Godin with SD SP90-3's in it. They're pretty hot: 12k for the neck and 14.6 for the bridge.

In my old age, I've started to discover the joy of clean tones--more precisely, the sweet spot between clean and dirty. The thing is, these pick-ups just hammer my multi-fx pedal and my amp. They're really hard to get a clean sound out of, but if I back off the volume at the guitar, I lose sparkle.

I've lowered the pick-ups a bit, and it has helped, but it got me wondering: what exactly are the tonal effects of hotter pick-ups? Is there a difference above and beyond how hard it hits the amp? Do the pick-ups themselves clip or compress the sound independently of the amp?

And what about varying pick-up height? If I lower hot pick-ups, can I get roughly the same tone as lower-output pick-ups? Are there other effects of varying pick-up height beyond over-all signal strength (and beyond artifacts due to having the pick-ups too close, like wolf tones)?

[Rob DiStefano]

do not think pickup resistance, that's a huge mistake. pup resistance can only mean "something" if everything is equal - the build, materials and wind - then the difference will be the turn count, which is reflected in the resistance.

in the best of all worlds, the true tone of a single coil pickup is when it has the least interference, which typically means the pup runs straight to the jack sans any variable resistance (pots) or treble shunting (caps). with only a vol pot in the signal path, even with it wide open some treble bleeds off to ground, and typically when that vol pot is cracked ever so slightly counter-clockwise, the loss of treble is very apparent. the semi-solution to that scenario is to add a .001uf cap across the vol pot's input and output lugs.

"overwound" single coil pups will typically decrease the treble end and increase the mid-range. there are other factors, too, such as bobbin footprint, magnets, coil wire gauge, wind tension and layering. these increased turn count pups are not "distortion" oriented, but the do offer more volume. regulate the pup's volume/tone via its top distance to the bottom of the strings, as well as playing with passive circuit modulation (pot values, cap values, wiring schemes).

much to discuss about single coil pups, i've only scratched the surface ... book due out next year. NOT!

[bbmyers]

I think the cheapest "upgrade" for ones electric guitar is a screwdriver for adjusting the height of the pups. You won't make those pickups something there are not, but you may find an area in which you get a decent semi-clean tone without a huge loss in volume and tone by adjusting them ever so slightly up or down. You might be thinking pup change and thats fine. But feel free to explore a little more with the height and see what you get.

I bought a used Agile LP with some hot rails in it along with the original pups in boxes. Since the hot rails were already in there (and really hot) I adjusted the height to try and find a place in between hair metal and Page/Zep. It helped some but I've put one original pup back in just to see how it sounded.

Then you got the rabbit hole of AlNICO I II II IV V, ceramics, Active vs Passive, 42 vs 43 ga , bobbin materials, winding methods, potting, bees wax or paraffin, to stagger or not to stagger, RWRP, UNTIL YOUR EYES BLEED!

Which sometimes leads me back to just grabbing a screw driver and mucking around with the height because I use my ears and not electrical theory..

[Narcoleptigon]

No harmonic distortion/compression takes place within a guitar PUP. Other than adjusting PUP height, there are a few other factors you can adjust to alter the PUP tone to get a better clean sound from you PUP's. Those factors are R (Resistance) and C (Capacitance). Together with the PUP, which is an L (inductor), they form what is called an LCR circuit.

In your guitar, the pots represent the R, and the tone cap is one factor of C. With the tone knobs on max, the cap wired to it has little, or no affect. However, there is also the C factor of the guitar cable to consider. In conjunction with the L of the PUP, the total C-load will determine the Rz (Resonant Frequency ) of the PUP. The R-load will determine how sharp and tall, or smooth and shallow the Rz is.

According to the decades of research done by legendary PUP designer Bill Lawrence of wild PUP's, Rz's between ~2-2.5kHz and above ~5kHz are good sounding to us humans. 4-5kHz can be nice, but not so much on the bridge PUP. Between ~3-4kHz is the "ice pick" zone. Human speech requires ~5kHz for consonant recognition. While the 2-2.5kHz range sounds good, you won't get the kind of "articulation" you'd get with Rz's near, or above 5kHz. I've experimented with it and I'd agree.

If you know the L of your PUP, you can determine the Rz using the Calc app here: http://www.calculatoredge.com/new/resonance.htm

Wilde will supply you with the L-value of any of their PUP's, which is measured in H (Henries). Unfortunately, SD doesn't. The SP90-3's are probably pretty high H-value -- maybe 6H, or so. You can still get a good clean tone with PUP's of that H-value, but you'd want to use a cable rated down below ~200pF, including the plugs. Otherwise, you'd want a cable that tunes them to the 2-2.5kHz range.

In short: as well as adjusting your PUP height, try using a shorter low-C cable. You notice that you have more highs and quite often a more balanced tone in general.

[ac15]

I Ihad those hot Duncan P90's in a guitar once. They came stock. With hot pups like that you lose high end and gain mids as mentioned previously. Not a big fan of hot pickups in general.

The Duncan Antiquity P90's are fantastic. They really sound like an old p90.

[Jupiter]

Originally Posted by ac15

I had those hot Duncan P90's in a guitar once. They came stock. With hot pups like that you lose high end and gain mids as mentioned previously. Not a big fan of hot pickups in general.

The Duncan Antiquity P90's are fantastic. They really sound like an old p90.

Thanks everybody. It's taking me a while to figure out what I like. These P-90's are a bit TOO midrangey for my taste, it seems, and the TVJ Classic+ in my LaCab clone doesn't quite have ENOUGH midrange to satisfy. SD claims that these Customs have a "fatter, fuller sound with rich harmonics," but I dunno....

I'm considering changing out the neck one for something more like the Antiquity. I can live with the hot bridge pick-up. I just don't want to throw money at it without a little more background knowledge first.

Then maybe I'll take that hot neck P-90 and add it to my LaCab clone to balance out the TVJ!

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by bbmyers

I use my ears and not electrical theory..

Heresy! Stone him! With the weighty stones!!!

[ac15]

Originally Posted by Jupiter

I'm considering changing out the neck one for something more like the Antiquity. I can live with the hot bridge pick-up. I just don't want to throw money at it without a little more background knowledge first.

I think the Antiquity Neck pickup is fantastic, probably my favorite and I've tried about 10 different brands of P90's. Some may cut through better, be louder, punchier, or whatever, but none sound as sweet and warm (especially for jazzy, bluesy, soulful types of sounds) as the Antiquity neck pickup. It has a soft attack, which is probably due to the alnico II magnets and the degaussing he does to the magnets. If you play any jazz or blues, or need those sounds from a neck pickup, that's where the Antiquity shines.