Weird issue with new pickups

[flyingbanana]

I have a wierd issue with some new pickups. Can you help me identify the cause? It happens with all three single coil pups and in 3 different pickguard setups that work fine with the original pickups that were in each one....if that makes any sense. The warbling sound is the same no matter how the pickups are adjusted.

I put up a quick link to a small windows media file, if you'll listen to it. Thanks in advance.

http://www.mediafire.com/?43xxdkrh3i34hec

[sjtalon]

you need a new amp

[flyingbanana]

Originally Posted by sjtalon

you need a new amp

Amp is fine. I had it on a setting that amplified the issue so you guys could hear it better. Were you able to hear the clipping sound? It isn't the amp..or any of my other amps. My other guitars don't do this.

[flyingbanana]

I pretty much ruled out all suspects. I'm getting another set of pups made up.

[sjtalon]

that otta do it


things like that can drive a guy nuts.

[flyingbanana]

Well, I got a new set of these 63's from BKP and although it isn't as bad, the G string still has some sort of clipping/warble or overtone thing going on. Is this normal for stagger pups with an output of around 5.8k to 6.3k?

Again, this issue happens with all pups, all switch settings. I have ruled out wiring, pots, the slot and anything inbetween.

I really would appreciate some input from a member who builds guitars or pickups. I'm at a loss here. I have played several early 60's strats without this issue.

Thanks everyone.

[Teleterr]

I assume you asked the p/up maker? Which p/up is it. Bare Knuckles what? Have you tried lowering it a lot to rule out the magnets pull as the cause?This is a Tele?

[Teleterr]

I reread its a strat.

[flyingbanana]

I did ask Tim about it. He said when they tested them...they were perfect. I really have no reason to doubt him. He then agreed to make up another set which he said were played through by no less than 8 people in the shop, and sent them to me.

And yes...as I mentioned before, I did try all the usual heights, pots, wiring. I even tried different capacitors. Same issue. Now I thought it could be in my mind, but I have myself and two other people hearing the same issue. All variables have been tinkered with. 3 different guitars as well. None has any slot issues or anything else I can think of.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main...series=patpend

[Teleterr]

Picture if you will...This is weird , unless it has the right amount of inductance thats acting as a resonance circuit. Have you played it in just one room?Just your house? Maybe its resonating to something in your wiring that your other p/ups aren't.Just to be str8t , you took the set of 3 and put them in 3 different guitars without changing the wiring in each until you heard the weirdness?

[Verne Bunsen]

Have you played it through a different amp? My Nashville with Blues Specials gets all warbly like that past the 12th fret when I play through my solid state amp with any grit, but plugged into a tube amp the tone is pure and sweet. Weird. I've been pulling my hair out over it too, but I'm trying to learn to live with it, until amp upgrade day comes around!

[Teleterr]

3rd post tells of multiamps.I'm still waiting on if its still there in another room or away from home.AC wiring seems like a factor.

[flyingbanana]

Originally Posted by Teleterr

3rd post tells of multiamps.I'm still waiting on if its still there in another room or away from home.AC wiring seems like a factor.

Nope. Same problem in any room...and away from home.

As I had mentioned...I think I did, this issue is non existant with any other guitar. Also, in addition to installing them in other prewired pickguards from other guitars, I stuck them into a brand setup with new wiring, pots etc. All variables have been ruled out. It's got to be something with the pups.

[fezz parka]

All three pickups do it?
Is this a freshly built and finished guitar?
Is there leftover steel wool shavings on the guitar or pickups? Pickup cavities clean with no metal shavings?
Did you shield this guitar? Shielding paint only on the bottom of the cavities and not on the sides?

There's something screwing with the magnetic field. Do you have another guitar to try them in? I'll bet you overdid the shielding.

Originally Posted by flyingbanana

I like to put the copper tape a bit over the edge in several places so that will contact the shielding on the back of the pickguard.

FWIW shielding can be overdone, and IMO is overrated.

Also, a hand scatterwound pickup's coil is looser than a machine wound pickup. They're very sensitive to what's going on around their magnetic field. If the pickups are basically in a metal cage that's grounded, you're gonna get some weirdness.

[Teleterr]

Send a private message to tdowns hes an electrical engineer. Blows my mind.

[flyingbanana]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

All three pickups do it?
Is this a freshly built and finished guitar?
Is there leftover steel wool shavings on the guitar or pickups? Pickup cavities clean with no metal shavings?
Did you shield this guitar? Shielding paint only on the bottom of the cavities and not on the sides?

There's something screwing with the magnetic field. Do you have another guitar to try them in? I'll bet you overdid the shielding.



FWIW shielding can be overdone, and IMO is overrated.

Also, a hand scatterwound pickup's coil is looser than a machine wound pickup. They're very sensitive to what's going on around their magnetic field. If the pickups are basically in a metal cage that's grounded, you're gonna get some weirdness.

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I thought of that. One guitar has a few pieces of copper tape on the bottom of the cavity. The other one has that good expensive copper shielding paint on the bottom and sides. Recently though, I overlapped some copper tape over the edges under the pickguards to make contact with the aluminum shields I now use on the backsides of the pickguards. The guitars are all markedly quieter now.

One thing I did notice is that these new pups are veryyy touch sensitive, so maybe my new shielding technique somehow only affects these pups. I can't be sure though until I try to eliminate some variables like the overlapped tape..maybe the alum shield. I'll post back tom.

[fezz parka]

Give it a go, bud. If you must shield (I don't do any on my stuff, then again I like noise, microphonics, etc.) only do the bottom of the cavities.

[flyingbanana]

Well...I wanted to try a few other things with the shielding, but did not hear a reduction in anything except peace and quiet....

So back in everything went. I did notice one thing however. The magnets are aged pretty heavily with a coating. As I was looking at what looked like a big dark booger, I noticed it was a piece of whatever is used to coat the magnets that broke loose. I decided what the heck and lowered the pickups, took off the covers and scraped away the aging material, and put it all back together. There was a small but perceptible difference to my ears in the overtone on G and D. It seems to be reduced.

What I have learned through all this is that when these pickups were originally built by whoever thought the G string magnet should be so high, many players were pushing the G string down...taking the chance the pickups would be ok...just because of this problem.

Someone I spoke with yesterday told me something that has stuck with me. This "issue," is really a perceived one. Many do not even hear it....although a lot do.

That said, the first set I got had the "mojo" and I'll be shoving them back in and returning the second set. Just thinking about this stuff can be draining. Ok...couple more weeks now and I'll be able to start wet sanding my project relic strat and then begin removing paint.

[tdowns]

Originally Posted by Teleterr

Send a private message to tdowns hes an electrical engineer. Blows my mind.

Well I stumbled across it anyway.

Based on what I'm hearing, I would say it's intermodulation distortion. You have some much power line hum coming through the signal, it's beating with the note you are playing and causing low frequency beat notes. I'm in my hotel room tonight and I used my Peterson iPhone app tuner to show me the notes you are playing. At 0:27 you are playing a B flat octave 4. It appears the beat frequency is slowest on that note. Behold a B flat octave 4 is 466.16Hz. Since you are creating harmonic distortion, the 4th harmonic of 120Hz (or 8th harmonic of 60Hz) is 480Hz, 480Hz - 466Hz = 14Hz. That's like a fast tremelo. Since no musical note is perfectly aligned with a power field harmonic, the beat note will not be very slow (unless you detune). If you have a tuner that displays frequency, you could tune to a frequency that was an interval of 60Hz and get the beats out of it.

So, if this is the problem, 1st try playing it clean. This effect should be greatly reduced but probably not eliminated.

You got to find a way to get that power line hum greatly reduced from your signal. I don't know if you have a wiring error, or are nearby a culprit noise source, but it is almost as high as the signal.

I hope this helps.

[flyingbanana]

Originally Posted by tdowns

Well I stumbled across it anyway.

Based on what I'm hearing, I would say it's intermodulation distortion. You have some much power line hum coming through the signal, it's beating with the note you are playing and causing low frequency beat notes. I'm in my hotel room tonight and I used my Peterson iPhone app tuner to show me the notes you are playing. At 0:27 you are playing a B flat octave 4. It appears the beat frequency is slowest on that note. Behold a B flat octave 4 is 466.16Hz. Since you are creating harmonic distortion, the 4th harmonic of 120Hz (or 8th harmonic of 60Hz) is 480Hz, 480Hz - 466Hz = 14Hz. That's like a fast tremelo. Since no musical note is perfectly aligned with a power field harmonic, the beat note will not be very slow (unless you detune). If you have a tuner that displays frequency, you could tune to a frequency that was an interval of 60Hz and get the beats out of it.

So, if this is the problem, 1st try playing it clean. This effect should be greatly reduced but probably not eliminated.

You got to find a way to get that power line hum greatly reduced from your signal. I don't know if you have a wiring error, or are nearby a culprit noise source, but it is almost as high as the signal.

I hope this helps.

It does make for an interesting read....

So, the noise in my line is nearly the same frequency as the sound generated by the G string, but because they aren't identical, I get that overtone sound?

You are correct. The clean channel does get rid of most of the extra stuff going on, but doesn't completely eliminate it.