Talk Me Out of Putting Bill Lawrence Pickups in My Tele

[SeizeTheDave]

Finally got my Tele! It presently has a SD Vintage Broadcaster Lead and a SD Vintage Rhythm. I'm not a SD or DiMarzio fan. I am a Bill Lawrence type of guy (Wilde, not USA) and have been planning to use them since I set out to get a Tele. But, I'm always willing to try something new.

So, here's my challenge to you: Talk me out of using BLs in my Tele.

All I ask is that the pickups are clear, articulate and well priced. BLs let the sound of the guitar and the player shine through instead of trying to accomplish a specific sound. That's what the amp is for.

Also need to justify the increase in price over BLs. I think that the pups I would get are $95-$100 a pair (except the Keystones. They're $73). I have a newborn so the funds are more limited than normal.

I'm a blues/rock/metal player but I didn't buy the Tele for that purpose. I want to learn Rockabilly, Country, etc so that's the genre I'll be focusing on.

Thoughts? Suggestions??

Thanks in advance!

[sjwieczorkow]

I am somewhat of a bodybuilder and Owen Duffys site is waiting for you to visit. I really think you will be impressed and pleased. He is a good man with a high quality product.

[boneyguy]

BL's approach to pickup design is simply one approach of many possible ideas. It's not necessarily the only way to design a pickup. I think on Bill's site he uses the metaphor of a painter beginning with a blank canvas. The metaphor assumes this is the ideal way to begin a painting. However, there's lots of masterpieces hanging in museums all around the world that were painted over previously used canvases. There's lots of great paintings that aren't even painted on canvas but on other non white, non blank surfaces.

So, BL has an idea and he undoubtedly makes an amazingly quality product. However, it ain't the only way to create a masterpiece.

[Steveareno]

I'm really tempted by Bill's twin blades, probably will need to have the body routed to accomodate the strat size. I want a jazzy sound in the neck and I like Bill's tone in the video link on their site. Prices seem very reasonable. Apparently Roy Buchanen was an early fan....that's enuff of a recommendation for me. I'll probably take the plunge. My stock neck pup has gone microphonic and makes a clicking sound when I hit it with my pick. Not alot of $ for a makeover. Our ladies drop that kind of cash for a haircut or new set of shoes without batting an eyelash.
Swang on,

[fezz parka]

I'd say play with the pickup heights and groove with what you've got. Put a nickel silver cover on the neck pickup for more clarity. Lower the Broadcaster to clear it up too. I really love the SD Broadcaster. If I didn't roll my own, it's what I'd have in my guitars.

[Tim Armstrong]

I was going to answer (in response to the thread title) "Why would I want to do something like that?" Bill makes very good pickups for a very reasonable price.

But I agree with fezz, take a little time with the pickups you have, those are VERY good pickups!

Tim

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by sjwieczorkow

I am somewhat of a bodybuilder and Owen Duffys site is waiting for you to visit.

I think Owen could show you a thing or two in the gym.

[Greg.Coal]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

I'd say play with the pickup heights and groove with what you've got. Put a nickel silver cover on the neck pickup for more clarity. Lower the Broadcaster to clear it up too. I really love the SD Broadcaster. If I didn't roll my own, it's what I'd have in my guitars.

I like Fezz's response here. I'm coming from the experience that your same rig will sound different to you on different days, your tastes and expectations change, small changes in Vol and Tone pots combined with something downstream in the amp or a pedal can be huge, your ears improve or at least change.

You have pretty precise expectations about what a pickup change will accomplish and all I will say about that is that it actually works out that way sometimes. Reading this forum, I've learned about Don Mare pickups and ToneRider pickups, too. You have many ways to go if and when you finally have to go,

Greg

[SeizeTheDave]

Owen Duffy - will definitely check them out

boneyguy - agreed. I've always found Bill to be the best painter, though. But, the premise of the thread is to try new things so I'm open to new ideas.

Fezz - duly noted. I have to admit that I'm biased against SD so why not give them a fair shot. I'm a patient guy so I can give them some time. The neck pup is quite muddy and, I discovered that it doesn't pick up harmonics on the strings (was tuning). Is that normal? Is that caused by the metal plate? Where would I be able to find a replacement cover?

Tim - I'm not trying to get away from BLs. That would be foolish!! I already have them in 9 guitars and love most of them (have had a few exceptions).

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by sjwieczorkow

I am somewhat of a bodybuilder and Owen Duffys site is waiting for you to visit. I really think you will be impressed and pleased. He is a good man with a high quality product.

I don't know who you are but you should have your own show. I'd spot for you in the gym any day of the week.

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by SeizeTheDave

The neck pup is quite muddy and, I discovered that it doesn't pick up harmonics on the strings (was tuning). Is that normal? Is that caused by the metal plate? Where would I be able to find a replacement cover?

The nickel silver cover (instead of the plated brass) will make your neck pickup more clear. Almost Stratty.
I use there from Mojotone. Don't let the neck pickup exceed the height of the fretboard.

[sjwieczorkow]

Originally Posted by Durtdog

I think Owen could show you a thing or two in the gym.

Touche'

/end hijack

[musicalmartin]

You have good pickups in there already .For Blues and Rock I would shove in a set of Tonerider Hot Classics, cheap but way above cheerful .Many on here agree too,not just me .

[syrynx]

I've been a diehard fan of Bill's pickups since 1979, when I put one of his FT-145 soundhole pickups in my 1935 Martin O-18. It's still there. But I agree that you should give the current pickups some time.

Originally Posted by SeizeTheDave

The neck pup is quite muddy and, I discovered that it doesn't pick up harmonics on the strings (was tuning). Is that normal?

I think what you're saying is that, when you're trying to match the fifth fret harmonic on the sixth string to the seventh fret harmonic on the fifth, you're not hearing the fifth fret harmonic through the amp when the neck pickup is selected. If that is what you mean, then yes, it's the normal and in fact inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, as explained in this thread. Since the phenomenon is a result of the neck pickup's position, you'll get the same result with any pickup you install in that position.

As fezz suggested, cranking that neck pickup down will likely clear up the mud. Ted Greene agreed.

[Tele-phone man]

I use the L280s and L290s in 3 guitars, and I love them, but I would recommend his pickups to you over the ones you have ONLY IF noisefree performance is important to you. I used to have the Vintage Broadcaster, and it absolutely nails that tone.

[mfguitar]

If you want the BL's then you should get them, unless of course you would rather get the (made in China) Tone Riders, or maybe Fralins are in your future. Then you will probably go back and find you really like the sound of the Duncans. I don't think you would lose with any of the top brands, they all hold their value well and are in demand. Its not going to be a huge investment to try different PUPs, if need be you can sell them as you go. Or like many of us here you might go the multi-tele route. Whatever inspires you is the way to go. Best of luck!

[WaylonFan76]

Originally Posted by mfguitar

If you want the BL's then you should get them,

+1. However, SD makes extremely good pickups, IMO. You could not pay me to take the Antiquity bridge p/u out my AVRI 52. Also, check out Don Mare's website, kinda like a grown-up's candy store...
http://buckcannon.com/pickupsfortele.html

[feloniuspunk]

It's good to solicit opinions. I've known Bill for years and use BL pups in many of my guitars. He has even designed pups especially for me, most notably a special Wes Montgomery HB that I put in one of my archtops. Some guitars have all BL's, some have BL's in combination with other brands. You are the one who must decide. It is up to the sound you are looking for and what pleases your ears.

They are really good pups though and I give them two thumbs up.

[GregB]

Bills Keystones are only $72 a set and they sound great. Why would I talk you out of them? In fact, I just purchased 2 sets to install in my next 2 Tele builds.

The harmonic thing is merely a side effect of the fact that the Tele neck pickup is located where the node point of a 5th fret harmonic. It's not a problem with the pickup. The reason you don't hear that on the neck pickup of a humbucker is because the 2 coils of the humbucker pick up the sound from slightly different parts of the string instead of just that node point.

I should add that it's such a joy to see and hear Ted play guitar. I saw him play once by accident and didn't realize it was him. I walked into a little club in the San Fernando Valley because I heard some good jazz guitar. I even mentioned to my wife "Hey, that guy's playing jazz on a Telecaster just like Ted Greene." But at the time the only picture I've seen of Ted was from the cover of his books and those were from the 70's and 80's. I didn't recognize him.

It was only last year when I discovered the TedGreene.com website and start watching videos of him teaching that I realized that the guy I saw in that little club in the valley really was Ted. I would have loved to shake his hand and tell him how much I appreciated his books.

[SeizeTheDave]

Interesting read on the harmonics. Makes sense.

One problem I have, right now, with the neck pup is that my pickguard is warped. It's arching up between the screws about 1/4in (guesstimate) and causing the pup to be higher than it should. I lowered it down but it would only go so far. I have three options: 1) two-sided tape 2) new pickguard or 3) drill a hole in pickguard and guitar and screw it down. (2) is the most attractive but (1) will work. Not ready for (3) yet.

One thing I noticed last night: The guitar sounds really good on my clean channel (Peavey Delta Blues 210 w/ Master Volume mod) but sounds muddy and lifeless on the distortion channel. I found that a little disheartening. I did adjust the pup heights. Most notable was the output difference, but the bridge being lower didn't have quite the attack that I would like. I re-adjusted with the BL nickel method of pup height and just played clean for a while. Again, sounded pretty dern good. Tonight I'll put my Fulltone OCD pedal in the mix and see how it sounds on the clean channel. I'll also try more pup heights to see if I can find something I like.

That's one thing that doesn't happen with BLs. They will stand out on the distortion channel.

Or like many of us here you might go the multi-tele route

Too tempting!!! If I get that bug, I'm in trouble!! I already buy enough guitars as it is!