Why is a HB'er in the neck good on a Tele?

[791979]

Sorry if this is a daft question, but I have often wondered about this.

My general perception of Telecasters is that the necks pups are (in general) dull/muddy, and the bridge cuts and can be too bright.

So, given my prejudice, I don't really see why a humbucker in the neck is a good move. I generally think of 'buckers are tending towards a less clear tone.

However, there was a Rolling Stones video in TV this afternoon, and Keef was using a Tele on the neck 'bucker and it sounded great (of course).

So, in general, is it a problem? Do you need to look for a low output 'bucker (or something else) specifically. What about potentiometer values.

And, more specifically. I am thinking of trying a 'bucker with my HD Super90, what would go well with this?

[bingy]

I have a humbucker in the neck position so I can approximate a Gibson sound.
It's like having two...two...two guitars in one
And the 2 pickups together are really great.
I did choose a low output HB.

[DMace]

I have a neck position low-output Duncan Seth Lover HB in a Tele. It does sound dark and somewhat woofy, but it's a cool-sounding dark and woofy. If I had to do it again, I might opt for a Duncan '59 instead, though, as I believe they're a little brighter.

[wetland10]

"My sound" is a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover humbucker and a Don Mare 0038 in the middle position (both pickups on). I love it.

Wayne

[Chrismo]

Because the only thing better than a Tele is a Tele with balls.

I want a humbucker Tele sooooo baaaaaaaaad LOL

[791979]

I can see how 2xHB would work. You could just use pot values to add brightness. It's the SC & HB thing that I'm a little cautious about

[teletin]

Originally Posted by 791979

and Keef was using a Tele on the neck 'bucker and it sounded great (of course).

AFAIK the use of the neckbucker by Keef is debatable. It appears that there are no photos proofing he ever used the neck pup (the switch is always on the bridgepup). The fact it is there does not mean he is using it (there are many tele players that use only the neck or bridge pup while having both on the guitar).

[Mr.Reed]

I'm doing something similar to this combo. Using a Lindy Fralin p92, and a seymour duncan (for the time being), for my pickups. The p92 being up by the neck. USing 250k pots and a lesser cap value (the bridge is a hot pickup so it should be a bit more mellow). I'm thinking it'll sound nice enough, my tele started as a HB/SC guitar, converted back to the "norm" then went to EMGs (don't really know why), and now I'm working back to the HB/SC design, just with a HB type pickup that is meant for more highs.

[791979]

That's interesting (keef/neck). I though the switch was on the neck, but it was only a fleeting view, so maybe I was mistaken.

[Mr.Reed]

I'm also doing this because I like the beef of a neck humbucker, almost nothing else satisfies that sound for me (I have another HB guitar, but I want it in my tele!!!)

[wetland10]

Originally Posted by teletin

AFAIK the use of the neckbucker by Keef is debatable. It appears that there are no photos proofing he ever used the neck pup (the switch is always on the bridgepup). The fact it is there does not mean he is using it (there are many tele players that use only the neck or bridge pup while having both on the guitar).

I've read a lot about that. To summarize, he does/did use the neck HB on his Custom, that's been documented.

As far as it goes with "Micawber," what I have read is that he had the HB installed. I would assume that you would install it to use it rather than to look at it. I also read that he might have older or custom wiring with a blender pot and blends in the HB.

Just some theories.

Wayne

[mgwhit]

Originally Posted by 791979

I can see how 2xHB would work. You could just use pot values to add brightness. It's the SC & HB thing that I'm a little cautious about

This issue comes up pretty frequently around here, and everybody has a different solution: 2 x 250K, 2 x 500K, mix and match, etc. Fender's "Fat Tele" solution was to run a resistor off the bridge hot wire in parallel to ground. You can find that on Fender's schematics page. I think it's really an "experiment to find what works for you and your guitar" kind of thing.

[DMace]

Keith definitely used the neck humbucker in his black Custom during 'Hail, Hail, Rock and Roll'.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by DMace

I have a neck position low-output Duncan Seth Lover HB in a Tele. It does sound dark and somewhat woofy, but it's a cool-sounding dark and woofy. If I had to do it again, I might opt for a Duncan '59 instead, though, as I believe they're a little brighter.

I've got a SD Lover (metal cover) on one Tele and a SD Model 59 (no cover, then later with a cover) on another Tele and the two sound a whole lot alike.

Now these are Squiers, but I've frankly been pretty disappointed with these Seymours in this application, 500 K pots standard on each Squier.

On both guitars I prefer the lowly stock Squier Bridge pup. Musicians Friend used to sell these for $ 5.99 each, I think.

[rangercaster]

humbuckers just sound good on a Tele ... it may be the longer Fender scale length ... i have a Yamaha PAC120s that twangs w/ 2 'buckers

[DMace]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

I've got a SD Lover (metal cover) on one Tele and a SD Model 59 (no cover, then later with a cover) on another Tele and the two sound a whole lot alike.

Now these are Squiers, but I've frankly been pretty disappointed with these Seymours in this application, 500 K pots standard on each Squier.

On both guitars I prefer the lowly stock Squier Bridge pup. Musicians Friend used to sell these for $ 5.99 each, I think.

Boris, I modded my MIM 'Squier Series' Tele for a neck humbucker, so I have the standard 250K pots: maybe that's why my Seth Lover is kind of woofy/dark. But it's still a fun, musical option to have, especially as I installed a phase push/pull and in the middle position get some great funky tones.

[Don Mare]

I go with the two in one theory - did not work for me at my Blues Gigs.
but I'm a fan of well made singles - Boutique Tele necks seemed to serve my needs best -

remember: if you alter the neck pickup too far away from the original design - you usually deplete the "middle switching position sounds" - also neck pickups have limits - some will limit what all you can do on the neck position -

lastly I feel allot of us fell victims - myself included to trying every pickup under the sun in the neck of our Teles.. in allot of cases most of us went back to that little chrome covered wonder!

its a beautiful design the stock-ish Tele neck - wire 43 - in chrome plated cover - just as long as they are not too far over wound, then their really great - No- Mud..etc..
After getting used to certain Tele necks - usually boutiques at 6k - I was set for life -- PS.. even prefer them over Strats - its a wonder theres no run on wire 43 Strat necks to speak of - cause there should be... hehe!

[Chrismo]

I always thought Keef typically played in the middle position?

I figured the humbucker was a way to fatten up that middle position to really get cookin'.

[791979]

I can really see the neck HB working with the bridge (switched or blended), that would seem like a great option. Maybe, when I have some free time I will get the router out and give it a try.

[wetland10]

Originally Posted by 791979

I can really see the neck HB working with the bridge (switched or blended), that would seem like a great option. Maybe, when I have some free time I will get the router out and give it a try.

It's a tremendous option. It really fattens things up and the tone running that and the single is really unique and different. I use it all the time.

Wayne

[BB]

Originally Posted by 791979

Sorry if this is a daft question, but I have often wondered about this.

My general perception of Telecasters is that the necks pups are (in general) dull/muddy, and the bridge cuts and can be too bright.

I think thas most people perception until they spend some time with various pickups and discover perception is indeed not reality in this case.

So, given my prejudice, I don't really see why a humbucker in the neck is a good move. I generally think of 'buckers are tending towards a less clear tone.

It all boils down to individual preference. What works for me may not work for you. As much as I love the tone of a great tele neck pup, buckers add the versatility and tone I look for. Again, perhaps not for you, but for me..yes!

So, in general, is it a problem? Do you need to look for a low output 'bucker (or something else) specifically. What about potentiometer values.

Not a problem for me. I generally use a bucker between 7.5K to 8.5K, but have also had 9-10K's that worked splendidly. Many opt for 500K pots, but 250K do it for me, so thats what I stick with. No right or wrong, just what your ears like to hear.

And, more specifically. I am thinking of trying a 'bucker with my HD Super90, what would go well with this?

The list is endless! Some good idea's here already and you can do a search as there have been volumes written here on the subject. Good luck with whatever way ou chose to go!

[Jammin'John1]

I have a Seth in mine.
The neck position on any guitar is very cool because the strings are moving a lot in that position.
A low output 'bucker matches up well with a medium to hot bridge pup.
I have a P-Rail in mine.
And they look nice.

JJ

[Don Mare]

If your just wanting a quicker - cheaper way to "fatten up things"

don't forget the Ol' 4-way switch mod... gives you that "humbucker / "in series sound too"

Blends are great too -- Leo Fender had the original Teles on The blend circuit -

I guess my warning should have just been - be careful that the neck pickup you install does not "limit" what all you really need to be doing on that there (thar) "neck pickup"
cause thats really all that happened to me every time I tested some new fangled neck pup in place of my little chrome-y neck! hehe!

[BritishBluesBoy]

Each time I've tried a Humbucker in the neck position of a Tele it hasn't stayed for long. Even a Mini Humbucker I had in a partscaster for a while got yanked after a couple of months. Personally I think a well made, well set up, traditional Telecaster with decent hardware and a good set of pickups is about as perfect as it gets.

YMMV etc.

[Talmir]

I have an alnico 2 in my tele and could hardly be happier. Its all personal preference really

[ballynally2]

my tele has a sd mini hb (alnico 5) in the neck (like a hot rod tele). I think it's great and a good combo w the bridge pup. Like the hot rod i have 300k volume and 250k tone pot, which is just right (i've tried 500k vol pot, but had to tone down both the minihb and the middle pup (p90) and also made the bridge pup more stable. Check out youtube for the hot rod

[jefrs]

I think I read somewhere that at least some of Keef's stage guitars are wired to bypass the switch in case he knocks it, whether this applies to the Micawber or not is another matter.

Imo a tele neck hb must match the bridge sc, there's no point going too hot, the tone becomes muddied. I fitted a neck hb because I did not like my two teles sounding so similar, I used a split pole alnico of about 8k. It looks like a wr but it is a full size hb. It can sound like a tele neck sc but more and fatter (it's like having two sc neck pickups), and it does not over-power the bridge when used together.

[wetland10]

Originally Posted by jefrs

I think I read somewhere that at least some of Keef's stage guitars are wired to bypass the switch in case he knocks it, whether this applies to the Micawber or not is another matter.

I hadn't thought about that, but that makes a lot of sense in a way. I knock the switch from time to time when it is in the middle position. Having it toward the bridge would eliminate that.

Wayne

[TelZilla]

I think a P-90 is actually the perfect complement to a Tele bridge PUP- after some experimentation, I was never able to find an HB that didn't sound to muddy to my ear and/or overpower the Bridge Pup.

I think a P-90 can add some fatness, while retaining the sizzle of a bridge.

All personal preference, like all this stuff...

[petebradt]

It's not.

[nosuch]

Originally Posted by Don Mare

its a beautiful design the stock-ish Tele neck - wire 43 - in chrome plated cover - just as long as they are not too far over wound, then their really great - No- Mud..etc..
After getting used to certain Tele necks - usually boutiques at 6k - I was set for life -- PS.. even prefer them over Strats - its a wonder theres no run on wire 43 Strat necks to speak of - cause there should be... hehe!

I second this, to me the neck pickup of my AV 52 sounds perfect. no offend to humbucker lovers. I tend to roll down the tone a bit - too me that sounds pretty fat, beefy and jazzy and more balanced then humbuckers which tend to have a midrange peak - at least to my ears. I can always open the tone control for that glassy blues sound.
I have nocaster pickups in my second guitar now with the neck pickup being a bit brighter. that may fix the "balance with bridge pickup" problem for some.

@Don: so the difference between a tele and a strat neck is in the wire used? please explain to a technical moron.

[markesquire]

I don't like Humbuckers in the neck AT ALL. You get a searing bridge and a wooly, inarticulate neck pickup. I understand the need for muscle and balanced output, but I'd pick a tele or P90 neck pickup over a HB any day of the week.

[TBoy Twang]

Since we're talkin' Keef and Tele neck humbuckers, I thought I might add that he actually flips the humbucker so that the poles are positioned like a bridge pickup would be, but in the neck position instead. Take a close look at his Micawber and you'll notice this. I think it just puts the poles a tad bit closer to the bridge to help eliminate some of that woofiness. I have a Thin Skin 52 Reissue that I had a WCR Crossroads neck placed into it reversed a la Keith and it sounds wonderful!

And I'm pretty sure that the wonderful jangle that Keith is known for comes from the middle position between the single coil bridge and neck humbucker.

But to reiterate what others have said, it's really what you prefer and what tone gets you going. Variety is the spice of life!!!

[Mr.Reed]

Well for me I like the sound of a bucker in the neck, and a beefier than normal pickup in the bridge. But Make sure to balance the two, or like several people said, using them together will get really tricky or maybe irritating.

[woodman]

let's not forget that Keef is not like You And Me ... i doubt if he spends much time over a hot soldering iron or juggles his budget to afford his latest mod brainstorm!

Originally Posted by Don Mare

don't forget the Ol' 4-way switch mod...

that was my solution after many years of being dissatisfied with neck 'buckers — i craved the sweetness of the single-coil neck, yet needed more beef in certain situations. actually i went to the 5-way Superswitch (both in series for the 'bucker sound, both in series out-of-phase for funky twonk).

[franchelB]

but I have a humbucker in a single-coil casing (Fender Vintage Noiseless neck). It has the Tele sound without the hum. If I wanted a full-humbucker sound, I just grab my Gibson Les Paul!
I guess whoever does the full-humbucker on the neck of a Tele just wants a Gibson/Fender combo/versitality in one guitar.

[jefrs]

Now I like the tele neck sc too, but I had little use for two guitars that sound the same, so the AmSer got the hb neck pickup in the swimming pool. But not just any woolly, inarticulate neck pickup. I deliberately chose an 8k and split pole - the trebles are towards the bridge placing the poles in a slightly brighter position south of the "24th fret" harmonic, fairly bright for an hb and useful jazz tones. No coil-tap needed, 4-way switch for series.

[Stylemaster]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

I've got a SD Lover (metal cover) on one Tele and a SD Model 59 (no cover, then later with a cover) on another Tele and the two sound a whole lot alike.

Now these are Squiers, but I've frankly been pretty disappointed with these Seymours in this application, 500 K pots standard on each Squier.

On both guitars I prefer the lowly stock Squier Bridge pup. Musicians Friend used to sell these for $ 5.99 each, I think.

I just finished my first partocaster with SD 59n & Broadcaster bridge. I have 2 really nice LPs and I gotta say the SD '59' in this tele (or "partie") stands up pretty well. Then again, the wood & bridge, etc. have so much to do with the final product, tone-wise and this tele has THE fattest neck I've ever had & a RW board. It's a Mighty Mite neck from '80.

[SimpleOne]

Apparently Fender has a 375 pot which is a tweener valued pot for it's hummer in the neck applications.

I like the comment in this thread, esp. the ones who use the Seth Lover pups, and explain the way they match out put so well.

Obviously single coils rule here in Tele-land. :)

But the sweetness of a properly chosen, I'd say vintage, hummer should not be discounted lightly, esp. if one wants to soften his attack and sweeten up his lead tone. I really love my 75' Gibbie bucker in the neck of my cheapo Squier...aaaaah. Ther are tonal flavors to be had that are different than just two SC'c. Viva la hummers!

[indiobravo]

Originally Posted by 791979

Sorry if this is a daft question, but I have often wondered about this.

My general perception of Telecasters is that the necks pups are (in general) dull/muddy, and the bridge cuts and can be too bright.

So, given my prejudice, I don't really see why a humbucker in the neck is a good move. I generally think of 'buckers are tending towards a less clear tone.

i have thought that for over 25 years. i tossed my WR neck pup the minute i got my first tele. (kinda wish i hadn't literally tossed it now tho, but that's a different story )

and now i love all my teles with SC in the neck for just that reason. I did put in a fralin twangmaster in the neck of that original tele, just because it looked a little like a WR, but it sounds much less muddy and for me it's more usable.

good luck