Which Fralin Pickups?

[Funkybot]

So, I've got a new Tele and I'm the process of upgrading her because I just can't stand the sound of this instrument. I'm wondering about what particular set of Fralins would be a best match for this guitar. I'm looking for a Keith Richards type tone, and maybe something that can get close to Mike Bloomfield as well.

I've settled on Fralin's because I want a true single coil sound and something nice and vintage.

About the guitar:

Right now, she's a very bright sounding guitar with a bridge pickup that's so harsh I can't stand listening to it. She's a top-loader (probably Japanese), the bridge style is very reminiscent of the Jeff Buckley style tele's, she's pretty light (about as much as Strat, lighter than my 72 Tele Deluxe RI), I'm thinking Ash because of the grain pattern and color, and she has a maple mid-90's American Fender neck with jumbo frets. I'll be playing it through Fender amps.

With the above in mind, what do you guys think would be the best match when it comes to Fralin's?

[Ronkirn]

About any quality single coil (bridge) and HB in the neck will do, Lindy can supply both... what will make it sound right is you adding the talent....

Call Lindy and chat with hi, he's quite accessible...


Ron Kirn

[JamonHamon]

www.donmare.com
Don has a Keith Richards pickup


The 0038's aka the "Lap-Steel Set"


Uses smaller wire 43 and AlNiCo III

as found on the original Broadcasters®!


Available in new sets or send in a rewind!
6.2k Neck / 11.5k Bridge.
A very much-favored 1950-1951 Broadcaster®
era set of pickups! (for early Broadcaster® Tone)

Optional 10k version upon email request. For a brighter
K. Richards Stones tone.

[Televised]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

About any quality single coil (bridge) and HB in the neck will do, Lindy can supply both... what will make it sound right is you adding the talent....

Call Lindy and chat with hi, he's quite accessible...


Ron Kirn

I have an 06' MIM Tele. They put in "Hotter" pick ups that year and I get different answers to what exactly these "Hot Pick Ups" are. Anyways, I really like the sound from this particular bridge pick up but was going to get a "mini-Strat" from Harrmonic Design or Fred Stuart to replace in the neck. I get the impression that I need to get a different "matched" bridge pick ups from these folks if this is going to work. I really just want to get a more bluesey sound out of the neck and would like to keep the existing brige pick up. Is life going to get "tougher" if I try this?
If you get a chance to read this and respond....Thanks
PS - Great write up about you in Premier Guitars. If I could afford it I would get one of yours.......but I have a MIM Standard Tele......nuff said.

[Ronkirn]

I would urge you to contact Lindy Fralin, Jason Lollar, Owen Duffy, Curtis Novak, Bill Lawrence, Don Mare (Buck), Budz Guitars, Kinman, in no particular order. Be careful though, there are some more obscure “winders” that know how to wrap wire around magnets, and that’s about the extent of their knowledge. The guys I listed all are superb. And those guys KNOW pickups but anyone that would suggest one of those guy’s pickup sounds “better” than another’s is just whacky. There are just too many other variables to factor in the calculus.

Let me state this again… the pickup does NOT make the sound of your guitar. You plus everything else does. Changing the pickup to get a specific sound is like changing your car’s steering wheel to go to a different location. If you don’t know how to drive, what difference does it make? So while a pickup is necessary, as is the steering wheel, there are just too many other things that must be considered.

I rarely recommend a specific pickup for a specific sound; simply because I have no idea what the person asking can hear. If I suggest “whatever” for a certain sound, and you’re hearing is marginal at certain frequencies (everyone’s is) and you are hearing something different from me, then I become the “goat”.

I often get a “chuckle” out of posts asking what works for a special sound. Ya got 50,000+ members offering 50,000+ different opinions, with 50,000+ different hearing abilities. Most just “parrot” the commonly know suggestions… humbuckers for bluesy sound, single coils for Twang, without ever giving any consideration to all the other factors in the sonic equation, or all the great guitarists getting the exact opposite results.

Far too many try to “adjust” the “tone” by changing the pickup, that’s crazy; you have a tone knob or two on the guitar and a few on the amp. To get a “bluesy” tone, turn the treble down and the midrange up. That’s easier and cheaper than replacing pickups, but it’s just not “sexy”. No one wants to say, “Hey, I got this great sound by turning my tone pot.” The want to say something like, I got this great sound by installing some exotic, esoteric gizmo, no one ever heard of, so I’m cooler ‘n you.

There is also the capacitor EVERYONE plugging in, places across the output of their guitar…. It’s more commonly called the guitar cable. It affects tone as much as your tone pot. That goofy cable can make a far more dramatic sonic change than the pickups.

When I chat with guys, it’s obvious they are looking for a sound change like going from dark muddy brown to vivid Ferrari red, when in reality, the guitar as a “whole” has a specific acoustic signature to start with. So changing something is like going from Ferrari Red to BMW Red. We’re talking subtleties here because that acoustic signature establishes specific parameters that dictate the final sound. You can “move around” within that “circle”, but you aren’t going from dull brown to intense red without doing some major “brain Surgery”.

It’s fascinating to me how whenever one of these “how do I change the sound” threads takes off, it always has “myopia” relative to whatever was first discussed, in this case pickups. There is another thread going right now about Maple fingerboard’s sound vs. Rosewood’s.

Here’s a thought, what if you change the “mellow” rosewood fingerboard and add a “brighter” pickup, do you wind up with a Shredder’s delight, a screamer, or remove the Maple fingerboard and add rosewood and a PAF Humbucker… does it now sound like an L-5. That’s what the “grapevine” would suggest. If you really want quality sound.. and a quality sound is ALWAYS better than marginal quality of a specific sound, get rid of that POS amp you have and get a good one. The amp is so much of the total, everything else falls to single a single digit percentile.

Here’s my “philosophy”… everyone wants the same thing when they whip out their guitar…. The audience may be only a few or a room full, but we all want the same thing. We want those hearing us play to be stunned by our ability. We want them to stand there slack jawed, amazed and what we just did with 6 strings and 20 +- frets. There is only one “mod” you can affect that will accomplish that, and it has nothing to do with hardware.

I hope no one takes this personally, this thread just presented a forum for a discussion of the content above. There is just so very much that is so often overlooked. Too many discussions about rather significant topics never get much deeper than a parking lot puddle, when often, changing a screw can present a bottomless pit.

And thanks for the kudos about the Premiere Guitar article.

Ron Kirn

[Televised]

Much Thanks for the well thought out response that not only addressed my specific pick up issue, but enlightened me in general. Plus down right entertaining and funny response.
Much appreciated and have a good weekend!

[tonebro]

What Ron said.....I've been dealin' with Lindy for about 10+ years now and if you can describe it, he(they) can wind it.

[Funkybot]

In relation to what Ron said, I agree, but I'm not quite in the "I want to sound just like Keith Richards" boat, nor was my request meant to convey that. When I brought up Richards and Bloomfield, I did so to get the point across that I want a "60's-ish rock tele" sound, which I was trying to allude to in order to rule out Broadcaster or Nashville inspired pickups.

I know what this guitar sounds like, and I know what I want it to sound like. What I've got are bright, thin, and shrill sounding pickups in a bright, thin sounding Telecaster. What I'm looking to do in a set of Telecaster pickups is keep a legit Telecaster tone, while shedding off some of the shrill and super bright aspects of this guitar while possibly even boosting the output some. Pickups can most certainly help in that regard.

My question could have been more specific as I think I've narrowed down what I want to three options:

1. Fralin Stock Tele
2. Fralin Stock Tele overwound 2%
3. Fralin Blues Specials

I'm leaning towards option 2 right now as I'm hoping the overwound stock Tele pickups will mellow out the guitar some while helping with output as this can use some help in the sustain department. But if that difference between that and the stock Tele pickups isn't that big, maybe I'd be better off going with the Blues Specials which should be even darker and hotter. Finally, if someone could really make a case for the non-overwound stock Tele pickups, I'd be all ears.

I suppose I'll just give Lindy a call, but I'd still like some insight from some of you guys here first. Oh, and the reason I think I'm going to go with Fralin's is the budget vs. quality ratio. Fralin makes great pickups and seems to be able to do so $60-70 (per set) cheaper than his competition. So price was a factor in deciding on Fralin's.

[MattC]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

I would urge you to contact Lindy Fralin, Jason Lollar, Owen Duffy, Curtis Novak, Bill Lawrence, Don Mare (Buck), Budz Guitars, Kinman, in no particular order. Be careful though, there are some more obscure “winders” that know how to wrap wire around magnets, and that’s about the extent of their knowledge. The guys I listed all are superb. And those guys KNOW pickups but anyone that would suggest one of those guy’s pickup sounds “better” than another’s is just whacky. There are just too many other variables to factor in the calculus.

Let me state this again… the pickup does NOT make the sound of your guitar. You plus everything else does. Changing the pickup to get a specific sound is like changing your car’s steering wheel to go to a different location. If you don’t know how to drive, what difference does it make? So while a pickup is necessary, as is the steering wheel, there are just too many other things that must be considered.

I rarely recommend a specific pickup for a specific sound; simply because I have no idea what the person asking can hear. If I suggest “whatever” for a certain sound, and you’re hearing is marginal at certain frequencies (everyone’s is) and you are hearing something different from me, then I become the “goat”.

I often get a “chuckle” out of posts asking what works for a special sound. Ya got 50,000+ members offering 50,000+ different opinions, with 50,000+ different hearing abilities. Most just “parrot” the commonly know suggestions… humbuckers for bluesy sound, single coils for Twang, without ever giving any consideration to all the other factors in the sonic equation, or all the great guitarists getting the exact opposite results.

Far too many try to “adjust” the “tone” by changing the pickup, that’s crazy; you have a tone knob or two on the guitar and a few on the amp. To get a “bluesy” tone, turn the treble down and the midrange up. That’s easier and cheaper than replacing pickups, but it’s just not “sexy”. No one wants to say, “Hey, I got this great sound by turning my tone pot.” The want to say something like, I got this great sound by installing some exotic, esoteric gizmo, no one ever heard of, so I’m cooler ‘n you.

There is also the capacitor EVERYONE plugging in, places across the output of their guitar…. It’s more commonly called the guitar cable. It affects tone as much as your tone pot. That goofy cable can make a far more dramatic sonic change than the pickups.

When I chat with guys, it’s obvious they are looking for a sound change like going from dark muddy brown to vivid Ferrari red, when in reality, the guitar as a “whole” has a specific acoustic signature to start with. So changing something is like going from Ferrari Red to BMW Red. We’re talking subtleties here because that acoustic signature establishes specific parameters that dictate the final sound. You can “move around” within that “circle”, but you aren’t going from dull brown to intense red without doing some major “brain Surgery”.

It’s fascinating to me how whenever one of these “how do I change the sound” threads takes off, it always has “myopia” relative to whatever was first discussed, in this case pickups. There is another thread going right now about Maple fingerboard’s sound vs. Rosewood’s.

Here’s a thought, what if you change the “mellow” rosewood fingerboard and add a “brighter” pickup, do you wind up with a Shredder’s delight, a screamer, or remove the Maple fingerboard and add rosewood and a PAF Humbucker… does it now sound like an L-5. That’s what the “grapevine” would suggest. If you really want quality sound.. and a quality sound is ALWAYS better than marginal quality of a specific sound, get rid of that POS amp you have and get a good one. The amp is so much of the total, everything else falls to single a single digit percentile.

Here’s my “philosophy”… everyone wants the same thing when they whip out their guitar…. The audience may be only a few or a room full, but we all want the same thing. We want those hearing us play to be stunned by our ability. We want them to stand there slack jawed, amazed and what we just did with 6 strings and 20 +- frets. There is only one “mod” you can affect that will accomplish that, and it has nothing to do with hardware.

I hope no one takes this personally, this thread just presented a forum for a discussion of the content above. There is just so very much that is so often overlooked. Too many discussions about rather significant topics never get much deeper than a parking lot puddle, when often, changing a screw can present a bottomless pit.

And thanks for the kudos about the Premiere Guitar article.

Ron Kirn

+1000

[BlueJim]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

...the reason I think I'm going to go with Fralin's is the budget vs. quality ratio. Fralin makes great pickups and seems to be able to do so $60-70 (per set) cheaper than his competition. So price was a factor in deciding on Fralin's.

I don't think you will go wrong with Fralins, but I found Bill Lawrence pickups to be competitively priced.

[fjfinamore]

Since your guitar is on the bright side, I don’t think that the Fralin Vintage Stock bridge, which is an excellent pickup, would change your guitar’s sound as drastically in the direction you want. It is a “classic” twangy Tele pickup. If you’re set on Fralin pickups, I think the Blues Special would be the better choice, as you mentioned Richards and Bloomfield, I presume you’re going for a blues-rock sound. An overwound pickup will increase the mid-range.

While there are an infinite number of pickup choices these days, one thing I might add is that a pickup with Alnico II magnets might actually be more successful in taming a bright guitar than one with Alnico V or Alnico III magnets. Alnico II gives a slightly warmer, rounder sound, though more compressed. A number of pickup makers offer it, Duncan, OC Duff, Lollar, just to name a few.

Besides changing the pickup, changing the bridge to the three-saddle brass variety will most likely help to slightly decrease the brightness, though since your guitar is a top-loader, I’m not sure if you can convert that easily.

[Televised]

Originally Posted by MattC

+1000

I literally printed a copy of Ron's response. He covers all the bases and makes perfect sense. Thanks for the expert advice, feedback, and professional referrals from all of you.

"What's Rock and Roll without feedback" David Gillmore

[ZZB3]

I have the Lindy Fralin Stock set in my Tele which is a bright guitar as well. They work well. The stock Am series Delta Tone bridge was shrill and harsh compared to the stock Lindy Fralin. THe stock Am Series neck pickup is great though. The Lindy neck pickup is great as well. You might try the Duncan Broadcaster bridge pickup which is a little smokier sounding than the Fralin and works very well with the stock neck pup. Had I tried that combo first I probably would not have ordered the Fralins. The Fralin bridge pup has more clarity but I do like the Broadcaster very much. If trying to save money buy the Duncan Bridge. If cost of the Fralins is okay you will not be disapointed as they will get you the tele tones you want to work with. I am keeping mine and see no need to change them out. I am saving the Duncan in case I get another tele that has a harsh bridge pup. Have fun and just play, Wayne

[Mr.Reed]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

In relation to what Ron said, I agree, but I'm not quite in the "I want to sound just like Keith Richards" boat, nor was my request meant to convey that. When I brought up Richards and Bloomfield, I did so to get the point across that I want a "60's-ish rock tele" sound, which I was trying to allude to in order to rule out Broadcaster or Nashville inspired pickups.

I know what this guitar sounds like, and I know what I want it to sound like. What I've got are bright, thin, and shrill sounding pickups in a bright, thin sounding Telecaster. What I'm looking to do in a set of Telecaster pickups is keep a legit Telecaster tone, while shedding off some of the shrill and super bright aspects of this guitar while possibly even boosting the output some. Pickups can most certainly help in that regard.

My question could have been more specific as I think I've narrowed down what I want to three options:

1. Fralin Stock Tele
2. Fralin Stock Tele overwound 2%
3. Fralin Blues Specials

I'm leaning towards option 2 right now as I'm hoping the overwound stock Tele pickups will mellow out the guitar some while helping with output as this can use some help in the sustain department. But if that difference between that and the stock Tele pickups isn't that big, maybe I'd be better off going with the Blues Specials which should be even darker and hotter. Finally, if someone could really make a case for the non-overwound stock Tele pickups, I'd be all ears.

I suppose I'll just give Lindy a call, but I'd still like some insight from some of you guys here first. Oh, and the reason I think I'm going to go with Fralin's is the budget vs. quality ratio. Fralin makes great pickups and seems to be able to do so $60-70 (per set) cheaper than his competition. So price was a factor in deciding on Fralin's.

Maybe try a higher value capacitor? I believe their jobs are to cut out the high frequencies. So up the value, reduce your highs. Might save you a few $$$. And it takes a stop by Radioshack on your way home, and a half hour messing with a few values.

[surfoverb]

Ive got the stock Fralins...They are bright, twangy. The thing about the 2% overwound is that they are only 6.6K to begin with so 2% will make them what 6.7? (or maybe its 2% more windings, either way your talking 7k tops) They have a5 magnets which makes them powerfull enough though.

But if you want Keef I would go with Fred STuart Lapwraps, or Don Mare 0038, or Duncan Broadcaster...Or just call Fralin and ask him, he knows infinitely more about this than I do.

[indiobravo]

i agree with surfoverb. i don't know that the fralins will be something you will be that happy with considering what you have described so far.
i *love* fralins, i have blues specials in neck and bridge of all my teles except for one that has a fralin twangmaster in the neck and my latest tele which i just got last week (so no time to muck it up yet) - so it would be easy for me to just say, "get em, you'll love them". but they are still bright. if you don't like stock tele brightness i don't know that fralins will help you too much.
I would describe the fralin BSs as just as bright as stock, but with a lot more character, a little more mids, and a great break up at 8-10 if you have your amp set up right.

[ballynally2]

ronkirn left out a few important things.The value of volume and tonepots and different alnico bar magnets.
Anything over 300k (and 250k is the standard for pots and single coils) brings too many high frequencies with it.The cap on the tonepot is also very important. 047 recommended.Secondly, like another post, alnico 3 bar looks like a good option for the bridge. Lindy fralin has a 1/2 and 1/2 option with a mix of alnico 5 and 3. I'd go for even more overwound.10% (around 9.5k), but always in conjunction with the right type and value neck pickup. I myself have an ash tele w sd minihb in the neck, p90 in middle and lindy fralin 10% overwound bridge pup, and the tone pot only on the bridge pup.

[Nub]

I put Fralins in my son's Tele... SP43 in the bridge & Blues Special in the neck. No icepick in it anywhere; it sounds fantastic, and he gets compliments on his tone whenever he plays out.

[jonkay1]

I disagree that tone is all in the fingers, or is the result of the players' ability. Let me sight as an example Kenny Vaughan, guitarist for Marty Stuarts' band. A fine player, to be sure. He plays a tele with a 3 barrel bridge, loaded with Frailin Blues Specials, into a silver faced Fender Princeton Reverb. His fundamental Carl Perkins like tone is just sweet, sweet as can be. Even if he just played one open note on the D string, the sound would be magnificent. I think his guitar tone enhances and inspires his playing, not the other way around. No amount of talent will create that sound.