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Old April 14th, 2009, 06:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Neck humbucker for ash body

What would you all recommend? The guitar is naturally bright so I need to keep that in mind. Some that I've considered: Lollar Imperial, Fralin, Harmonic Design, there are lots of Duncan options. I'd like for it to cut through a moderate amount of distortion without a ton of squealing but also have nice warm and clear clean tones. Any help would be great.

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Old April 14th, 2009, 06:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Duncan 59 or Duncan Seth Lover.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 07:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If you go too hot then it will mis-match the standard sc bridge, so about 8k good.
Are you talking full size humbucker or stacked? = Me, I prefer full size at neck. Any full size hb can drive to distortion.

There are a lot of good pickups. Add Tonerider to your list.

I had a toss-up on the S/D Jazz or Tonerider Rocksong, the Rocksong won, on price. I'm pleased with them, much better than Epi Classic 57.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you go too hot then it will mis-match the standard sc bridge, so about 8k good.
Are you talking full size humbucker or stacked?
Full sized.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 09:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Will an alnico 5 be too bright with the ash?
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Old April 14th, 2009, 09:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Will an alnico 5 be too bright with the ash?
In certain cases I'd advise against it, however a friend of mine uses a '59 paired with a Jerry Donahue in the bridge in his Lite Ash Tele.

FWIW, it sounds incredible. The '59 isn't that bright with a nickel cover - just full, round, and warm.
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Old April 15th, 2009, 10:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Seth Lover

I'm runnin' Seth in the neck & a P-Rail.

JJ
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Old April 15th, 2009, 02:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm runnin' Seth in the neck & a P-Rail.

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with an ash body?
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Old April 15th, 2009, 03:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Will an alnico 5 be too bright with the ash?
Ceramic are harsher, I have ceramic in Ibanez AGS. The Rocksong I mentioned are Alnico 4, that pair into Epi Joe Pass, very jazzbox, I think bridge would suit tele. My AmSer has a G&B split pole alnico, very 'Ooooo'.

Full size hb available variously as ceramic and alnico 2, 4, 5. And then in different wind resistance.

But note the guitar itself strongly influences the sound that comes out of the pickup: if the guitar is bright, the pickup will sound bright.
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Old April 16th, 2009, 03:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If I went with, say, a seth lover neck, what would be a good high output bridge pup for an ash body that still retains the tele characteristics?

Maybe what I really want is a mahogany body?
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Old April 16th, 2009, 05:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If I went with, say, a seth lover neck, what would be a good high output bridge pup for an ash body that still retains the tele characteristics?

Maybe what I really want is a mahogany body?
Duncan Jerry Donahue bridge pickup should be a good match.
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Old April 16th, 2009, 09:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If I went with, say, a seth lover neck, what would be a good high output bridge pup for an ash body that still retains the tele characteristics?

Maybe what I really want is a mahogany body?
The Seth Lover is Alnico 2 like my 27 Tonerider Rocksongs (I got it wrong, the medium-hot Rocksong are Alnico 2, the medium 'PAF' are Alnico 4 and the medium-hot Generator are Alnico 5, the necks are all about 8k)

What will match neck for bridge pickup? = standard tele sc.

But you will want a B500k volume and I recommend a TBX with 47nF, don't bother with coil tapping but do use a 4-way for series pickups - crunch!
Set the bridge sc just so and adjust neck height to match output.

I've got a mahogany Gretsch and I can't say it's tonally much different to ash or alder. You might get more tonal variation from pieces off the same tree. So long as it's a good piece of wood, it will be fine.
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Old April 16th, 2009, 09:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The Seth Lover is Alnico 2 like my 27 Tonerider Rocksongs (I got it wrong, the medium-hot Rocksong are Alnico 2, the medium 'PAF' are Alnico 4 and the medium-hot Generator are Alnico 5, the necks are all about 8k)

What will match neck for bridge pickup? = standard tele sc.

But you will want a B500k volume and I recommend a TBX with 47nF, don't bother with coil tapping but do use a 4-way for series pickups - crunch!
Set the bridge sc just so and adjust neck height to match output.

I've got a mahogany Gretsch and I can't say it's tonally much different to ash or alder. You might get more tonal variation from pieces off the same tree. So long as it's a good piece of wood, it will be fine.
I hear a bit of difference but yes, it depends on whether or not it's "good" wood. Mahogany tends to be a bit warmer, yet it also depends on the other parts being used as well
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Old April 17th, 2009, 03:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This is all great advise. Thank you everybvody. I will look into your suggestions. The reason why I mentioned a mahogany body is because I'd like to have a Gibson sounding guitar that plays like a Tele. I love my Teles with their vintage output but I want a high powered one with some crunch to it. I thought about a mahogany body with 2 buckers and a P-90, or even an HD Z-90, in the middle. Maybe I should do that to this ash body but instead of a bridge bucker have a Tele shaped bridge pup. Anybody tried a neck bucker with a Z-90 mid and a Tele shaped bridge, maybe an HD Super 90?
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Old April 17th, 2009, 03:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Duncan Jerry Donahue bridge pickup should be a good match.
Duncan's site lists it at 7.8k. Will that be enough?
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Old April 17th, 2009, 03:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Duncan's site lists it at 7.8k. Will that be enough?
Ohhhh yeah. Good friend of mine paired one with a '59 in the neck. Beautiful tones.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 03:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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This is all great advise. Thank you everybvody. I will look into your suggestions. The reason why I mentioned a mahogany body is because I'd like to have a Gibson sounding guitar that plays like a Tele. I love my Teles with their vintage output but I want a high powered one with some crunch to it. I thought about a mahogany body with 2 buckers and a P-90, or even an HD Z-90, in the middle. Maybe I should do that to this ash body but instead of a bridge bucker have a Tele shaped bridge pup. Anybody tried a neck bucker with a Z-90 mid and a Tele shaped bridge, maybe an HD Super 90?
If you go the 'bucker route, you're definitely getting into Gibson territory.

High powered crunch? That's gonna come from your bridge. Try a '59 in the neck and a Duncan Hot Rails in the bridge. Vintage PAF tones in the neck, high output crunch in the bridge. It'll be fine for that guitar.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 05:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If you go the 'bucker route, you're definitely getting into Gibson territory.

High powered crunch? That's gonna come from your bridge. Try a '59 in the neck and a Duncan Hot Rails in the bridge. Vintage PAF tones in the neck, high output crunch in the bridge. It'll be fine for that guitar.
You're right about the bridge being the source of any crunch. I'm still undecided between having a low output neck bucker with a single coil bridge or a double bucker with maybe a P-90 middle. I'm leaning towards the latter.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 06:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You're right about the bridge being the source of any crunch. I'm still undecided between having a low output neck bucker with a single coil bridge or a double bucker with maybe a P-90 middle. I'm leaning towards the latter.
That would be rather tricky, but if you feel it's most useful to you, go ahead.

Another option would be the P-rails, as suggested.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 11:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hmm, tele bridge humbuckers do not sound quite like sc do they.

If you have an 8k neck humbucker then you can match with a bridge hb from 8k to 14k. I've seen monster 24k hb , they need to be installed as a set.

An 8k neck humbucker is not low output, far from it, but it can be matched up to a 'stock' tele bridge sc and keep the twang. A tele bridge sc is fairly high output compared e.g. to a strat.

The trick is finding controls that impedance match mixed pickups. By convention sc get 250k and hb get 500k. A B250k vol will rob an hb of treble. A B500k vol will suit both but the tone is a bit more tricky. An A500k on an sc can be too bright and an A250k on an hb too muddy, fortunately the 1meg/250k TBX suits both and 47nF suits tele (they come with 22nF). imo

re wood and other factors, I agree entirely but will opine that a good piece of ash is better than a poor piece of 'mahogany' especially as we cannot get real mahogany these days. You can get warm ash or cold ash (or alder/other timber). A good piece of timber will ring nicely when rapped with a knuckle.

re mahogany, you can have soft light open grained punky stuff like the body of my Gretsch jet, or hard close grained stuff like its neck, or you can have iron hard heavy stuff like the remains of my grandmother's dining table, well seasoned British Honduras red mahogany, it was new in 1895 but the timber was probably 30yo when built.
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