Out of phase question and one more important question

[drunkard]

Well I just got my MIM tele of my guitar tech.I changed the stock pickups to fender's vintage noiseless and I also had a push pull switch installed so to heve the in phase -out of phase effect.I want to ask ....The out of phase sounds more thin??more trebly?My tech said he reversed the bridge pickup.I think I read that you have to reverse the neck pickup.Or is ti the same???Also in phase-out of phase is the same as saying that the 2 pups are on series or parallel?Or something completely different?
Thanks for your help

[Tele Fan]

Out of phase is very hollow sounding with less output.

[sjtalon]

>Out of phase is very hollow sounding with less output. <

yep, very TINNY



What did you want him to do ??

NORMALLY if your doing the 4 way switch deal ( or with a p/p) the pickup option is with the pickups from series to parallel, pickups IN PHASE.

Wiring can be done to switch in phase or out of phase AND series/ parallel as well.
They are TWO different things (series-parallel.........in phase -out of phase)

As far as which pickup is put out of phase with the other it doesn't matter, as long as one of the two is RW/RP

[tjalla]

More often on a tele the neck PU is reversed because its easier to add the necessary ground wire to the chrome cover than it is moving the ground on the bridge PU where it has a baseplate

Most MIM teles don't have baseplates on their bridge PUs, so your tech would have been correct to reverse the bridge wires. And yes the sound is thinner, will a big drop in lower-mids and bass giving a thin honky sound which is compounded with the typical parallel wiring of a tele PUs.

I like reversed phase, but mainly with buckers or P90s, and importantly on guitars with seperate volume controls to blend in 'shades' phase reversal. If you gotta have that sound on a tele, I'd try a 4-way switch so at least you have the option of parallel and series out-of-phase sounds.

[boris bubbanov]

I think of it as an artsy, airy, kinda honky sound that is hard to hear when other musicians are playing.

The phase is the relationship of the two pickups towards each other. This relationship can be changed either at the neck end or at the bridge end; whichever is more practical.

I haven't fooled much with the pickup model you have, so I can't offer a strong opinion as to whether out of phase but parallel might simply not sound good to a lot of folks.

I usually do a 4 way switch instead of a push-pull pot, and I add Series not phase changes.

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

I think of it as an artsy, airy, kinda honky sound that is hard to hear when other musicians are playing.

I find the opposite - reversed phase always stands out to my ears, even in a band context, be it from the stage or audience perspective.

But I reiterate - out of phase is most commonly associated with P90/bucker players (T-Bone Walker/Peter Green/early BB King). I can't think offhand of anyone who has signature tone based on a out of phase strat or tele as thinning out low output single coils really serves no tonal benefit.

[Robsocal]

Originally Posted by tjalla

I can't think offhand of anyone who has signature tone based on a out of phase strat or tele as thinning out low output single coils really serves no tonal benefit.

I associate Robert Cray's sound with that out-of-phase strat sound. Latter day Eric Clapton as well (e.g., Lay Down Sally).

[maestrovert]

the following definitions are from the Seymour Duncan website's support page

Tapped Pickup - A coil which has two or more hot leads exiting at different percentages of the total wind in order to provide multiple output levels and tones.
Split Pickup - The process of grounding out one of the two coils of a humbucking pickup thereby producing a single coil sound.

Series - The electrical linking of two coils in a serial fashion producing a higher output, fuller and more powerful sound. This is the standard hookup for humbucking pickups.
Parallel - The electrical linking of two coils in a parallel or side by side fashion. The sonic effect compared to a series configuration is approximately 30% lower output but with additional brilliance and clarity on the high end.

Out Of Phase - The electrical linking of two coils or two pickups in either series or parallel but with the signal polarities summed in such a way as to provide at least partial cancellation of the signal. Usually the low frequencies are canceled so the resulting sound is thin, lacking in warmth and often quite brittle.

hope it helps

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by maestrovert

the following definitions are from the Seymour Duncan website's support page

Tapped Pickup - A coil which has two or more hot leads exiting at different percentages of the total wind in order to provide multiple output levels and tones.
Split Pickup - The process of grounding out one of the two coils of a humbucking pickup thereby producing a single coil sound.

Series - The electrical linking of two coils in a serial fashion producing a higher output, fuller and more powerful sound. This is the standard hookup for humbucking pickups.
Parallel - The electrical linking of two coils in a parallel or side by side fashion. The sonic effect compared to a series configuration is approximately 30% lower output but with additional brilliance and clarity on the high end.

Out Of Phase - The electrical linking of two coils or two pickups in either series or parallel but with the signal polarities summed in such a way as to provide at least partial cancellation of the signal. Usually the low frequencies are canceled so the resulting sound is thin, lacking in warmth and often quite brittle.

hope it helps

I should probably read that every day.

One cool way to get fluent with all the sounds is to put some time in at a guitar shop (or buy your own) on a MIM Classic Player Baja under moderate amplification. That guitar gives: series, in and out of phase, and parallel, in and out of phase. Then play a conventional Strat and hear the quacks and clucks. Those are all in phase unless someone has been experimenting on the guitar

No doubt, a series out of phase setup on some guitars has better output than the parallel in phase does.

I just assumed the O P had his setup all parallel, I shouldn't have assumed.

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by Robsocal

I associate Robert Cray's sound with that out-of-phase strat sound. Latter day Eric Clapton as well (e.g., Lay Down Sally).

Not really - that's just the typical in-phase-but-parallel strat sound - Cray's picking style and clean amp settings tends to emphasise the quack for sure, but it doesn't actually sound phase reversed. "Out-of-phase" has been an accepted misnomer for years, just like a strat "tremolo" bridge is actually vibrato and Fender amp "vibrato" are for the most part, tremolo (some brownface exceptions, but I digress...)

[robt57]

Split Pickup - The process of grounding out one of the two coils of a humbucking pickup thereby producing a single coil sound.

Also referred to as shunting, just saying... And it is note worthy that a lot of time it is common folks seem to think this is, and call this tapping or a tap. But a Tap is as in the SD description. You mileage will not vary on this. ;)