Humbucker CS TELE in neck wrong place?

[Muddybuchfan]

I notice the Fender CS is producing nice teles with a humbucker in the neck position. Why is the HB set so much farther back toward the bridge rather than close up on the neck like in Keiths guitars. I played one and it did not have the magic and it stopped me from buying one and now contemplating a project. Any comments on placement of the HB would be appreciated and thanks. JR

[Chris Leger]

Which guitar are you talking about?

[Muddybuchfan]

Fender Custom Shop model with 9.5 radius and med. jumbo frets and the HB PUP is to far away from the neck. Here is one from Daves Guitars. Thanks.

http://davesguitar.com/products.html?13256

'52 Relic Tele, New, Butterscotch Blonde, #R7334 (close up photo) 7.6 pounds, Duncan '59 humbucker in the neck position, Special ordered lightly reliced with a 9.5 radius and medium jumbo frets, With Tweed case.

[Chris Leger]

Looks correct to me. That's about where mine is, and pretty much any other I've seen.

Keith Richards' guitar is sort of a one-off. Not too many made that way. Most of us use the upper boundary of the existing neck pick-up rout as a starting point, so the pickups wind up where you see them in the guitar you mentioned.

[RodeoTex]

I don't know if one position is more correct than the other but after getting used to seeing Keith's Micawber all the others look wrong somehow.

[Muddybuchfan]

I wonder if the harmonics are different when placed in the Keith position?

[Chris Leger]

The harmonics are the same. It's the pickup's position relative to the harmonic that's different. 2nd harmonic is at .25 of vibrating string length.

Look at HB equipped Teles in real life, rather than in photos, and you'll see the config like the OP mentioned. Call WD, Warmoth, Pickguardian, etc, and tell them you want a pickguard for a Tele with a humbucker in the neck, and it isn't going to be like Keith's. In fact, if you look at photos of his, the pickguard is kind of hacked up at the top because the pickup is too close to the edges.

For the most part, the only ones out there like his, are his & replicas.

[Muddybuchfan]

I played the Fender CS model and it lacked the growl and attack compared to the tele a friend owns equipped with the HB in the Keith position. A nice affordable bakelite pickguard blanc can be had for only around $25 or so. I am not concerned about availability from PG manufacturers rather, my obsession is getting the right tone. My friends guitar has the growl in the neck position and backs off nicely for warm sweet tones. Thanks.

[Chris Leger]

Yes, absolute neck pickup positioning is certainly the only variable among your friend's (and Keith's) guitars, and the CS that you tried. Doubtless the strings, amps, pickups, wood, frets, set-up, electronics and hardware are the same.

For the ultimate in Keefplication, be sure to pierce your ears, chain smoke, dress like a pirate, remove your E-string and use ukulele tuning, and you'll be in sonic RnR nirvana, my friend!

[Muddybuchfan]

Hey Chris! Thanks for all the kind help,... like shopping at Guitar Center and getting all the sophisticated advice from their kids on the floor without having to brave the cold! Was hoping an experienced guitar builder would have some advice on the topic.....

[Chet Johnson]

Jr, I wouldn't say that humbucker placement has a "wrong" way to go. Its personal preference. I like to use the neck side of the existing single coil hole as a starting point.

Say,in this case, I laid the ring for the neck pickup I planned to install on the body and traced all around it inside and out. This made it very easyto plan for.

On a finished body, you could masking tape the body, so you could still make all the marksthat you please, with no regrets.

Originally Posted by Muddybuchfan

I notice the Fender CS is producing nice teles with a humbucker in the neck position. Why is the HB set so much farther back toward the bridge rather than close up on the neck like in Keiths guitars. I played one and it did not have the magic and it stopped me from buying one and now contemplating a project. Any comments on placement of the HB would be appreciated and thanks. JR

[SimpleOne]

Originally Posted by Chris Leger

Yes, absolute neck pickup positioning is certainly the only variable among your friend's (and Keith's) guitars, and the CS that you tried. Doubtless the strings, amps, pickups, wood, frets, set-up, electronics and hardware are the same.

For the ultimate in Keefplication, be sure to pierce your ears, chain smoke, dress like a pirate, remove your E-string and use ukulele tuning, and you'll be in sonic RnR nirvana, my friend!

Sheesh, were all friends here.....and welcome to the forum!

[Muddybuchfan]

Thanks Chet that is along the lines of what I was asking. I want to buy a HB Tele with it correctly placed for optimal tone and wanted info on proper placement for a buid of my own. I appreciate the help. Thanks SimpleOne, glad to join everyone. Take care.

[Chris Leger]

Better check again - Chet's doing it like the rest of us.

"Start Me Up" might not have the "warm sweet tones" you're after if you do it that way.

You need to track down the luthier who put "Keef's" guitar together in 1973 and see if he still has the framing square and sharpened screwdriver he used.

[stevieboy]

There's variables that can have a great effect on what you are talking about. The nature of the pickup itself, the magnets as well as how it's wound, would be a big one. Also the adjustment of the pickup height, and with humbuckers, you can adjust the height of those six screws relative to the pickup height and it will affect the tone a lot.

[yegbert]

Here's Micawber:





Here's a CIJ TL52-SPL (OWB):





Here'e the MIA CS 9.5" radius with medium jumbo frets from Dave's:





The CIJ CIJ TL52-SPL has the pickup closer to the neck than the MIA CS from Dave's, maybe the same position as Micawber. It also has a bridge (Gotoh thick brass plate with block shaped saddles) like that on Micawber, instead of the vintage style bridge that's on the CS MIA model.

[Muddybuchfan]

Thank you Yegbert!!!! You put it all together for me; your the man. Can always count on Maryland Tele players to bring it! I am aiming toward the Micawber placement but not reversed like on several of Keiths other teles. My friends tele goes from the grind and grit of Exile to jazz riffing like nothing and I hope to get that in one Tele as well. Thanks for the pics they will really help in the build phase if Fender CS is out of reach. Now on to that HB pickup issue........and oh yeah sell that 1994 Fender CS Gatton.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by yegbert

Here's Micawber:

Yegbert, wouldn't it make sense that is the location of the exposed pole pieces, not the dummy coil, in relation to the harmonic that should matter the most?

***

My beef with the Micawber is, the back of the neck pocket is effectively gone. While that may not matter much on a 5 string guitar, on a six stringer with up to 52 size big E strings, I may have issues. I think this, and the untidiness of the Micawber mod, has guided the adaptation in these reissues.

[yegbert]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

Yegbert, wouldn't it make sense that is the location of the exposed pole pieces, not the dummy coil, in relation to the harmonic that should matter the most?

***

My beef with the Micawber is, the back of the neck pocket is effectively gone. While that may not matter much on a 5 string guitar, on a six stringer with up to 52 size big E strings, I may have issues. I think this, and the untidiness of the Micawber mod, has guided the adaptation in these reissues.

Why would you assume one coil is a dummy coil? Many HBs are designed so that only one coil has polepieces that are tapped and threaded with screws, and those screws exposed outside the cover. But the other coil can still have polepieces, like the one in the picture I've attached here, and can keep that coil electrically connected so that it's not a dummy. I thought it was on those "noiseless" design pickups like FVNs with the second coil not connected electrically, that the second coil is referred to as a dummy coil.

Whether or why the location or orientation of the pickup makes any kind of a difference, I don't know. I'm relatively happy with my single coil Teles for now so I found the discussion only peripherally interesting. But I found that picture of the CIJ Tele and thought it might be interesting to others here.