MIM '72 Re-issue upgrade - retro-fit

[Telenator]

Over the past couple months I have been working on a project to retro-fit MIM '72 re-issue p'ups with larger bobbins like the ones you'd find in the original '72 wide range humbuckers.

Before I go much further with this, I wanted to ask you guys what you are all looking for in a Wide Range Humbucker.

I have heard praise and criticism of the orignals that seem to center around the issues of them being "warm" on the plus side, and "muddy" on the negative side.

My retro-fit coils will most likely use alnico v magnets and will fit right inside the standard MIM covers but will not have adjustment screws. I suppose I could fake something in there for appearances but, well,.....

Anyway, what are people looking for in a pickup like this?

An aggressive sound?

Clarity?

Warmth?

Something that sounds close to the original?

Hopefully this info will help in determining the final winding and assembly spec.

I am not a manufacturer. I'm just a guy who builds guitars sometimes and loves to take on little projects like this. If all goes well, I just might have an extra set to pass around for evaluation.

[spankdplank]

What I love about the original WR in my 75 Custom is the wide frequency response and string definition. It has both a sparkley top end like a single coil and deep low end like a humbucker. Each string rings very distinctly. I firmly believe that the 1 meg pots and pole piece magnets are critical for keeping the single coil character and string definition, and the wide and flat bobbin shape is the key to the deep low end. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

[Telenator]

Thanks.

Mine is going to be something like two Tele bridge p'ups put together to make a humbucker. I had to have bobbins custom machined to get the height correct and to hold the proper amount of winds. They're as wide as Tele bridge bobbins, but of course re-designed to fit the hole pattern on the chrome cover.

This is going to be cool. It will look pretty close to the original and, if all goes well, sound better than the MIM re-issue. (although I must say, I like the re-issue p'ups a lot!)

[superbadj]

I've never even heard the originals, so what I would want in one would be, as was mentioned before, more sparkle and clarity than the typical Gibson sound. Good low end when you roll it back, but it can't get overly muddy.

[jivetrain]

while we're sort of on the subject, does anyone know what specific factors cause a pickup to sound muddy vs. clear in the first place?

[Telenator]

There are several factors ranging from winding to magnet type to basic pickup construction that will make a pickup sound bright, warm, focused, dark, biting, dull, harsh or whatever. It's a HUGE discussion that while very interesting, might warrant having it's own thread!

In the case of the original WRHB's I'm not sure how they got 10.6k ohms from 5,000 winds per bobbin. Most humbuckers I see having 5,000 winds read in the 7.5k range. The only thing I can think of is, the bobbin core of a WRHB is much larger which uses a longer length of wire to make one complete wind so, in other words, there's more wire on the bobbin because the core is bigger to begin with. The bobbins on the original pups are wider overall than your average humbucker and possibly have a larger core meaning that it takes more wire to do 5,000 winds on a WRHB bobbin than it does to do 5,000 winds on a standard size humbucker bobbin. More wire length = higher DC resistance.

I would like to hear these p'ups sound more Fender than Gibson so I may not have them wound to 10.6k like the originals. Using alnico v magnets changes alot of things because they're stronger and brighter sounding than the original CuNiFe magnets used on the original WRHB. In fact, I have to believe that the wafer thin magnet that sits under the coils on the original WRHB was there to boost the magetic field.

Anyway, I am certainly no pickup expert. I'm learning as I go along here and working with a good friend who winds excellent pickups. Between my research, design skills and machine shop connections, and his guitar and pickup expertise, we're hoping to come up with something really cool here. As I have done with the drawings and research in another thread here, I will openly share all of my information with everyone. Maybe even some photos!

So yeah, there's going to be some trial and error here and a real fun journey in trying to make something that sounds great, upgrades an already cool guitar while maintaining it's orginal looks, and some of us will learn something in process through knowledge shared.