Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

Telenator · March 27th, 2008, 05:37 AM

Does anyone know if the the covers on the new Fender '72 Thinline re-issue pickups are the same size as the originals?

What I'm most interested in is the hole spacing for the magnet slugs. Is the spacing the same as the originals?

I have found a source for CuNiFe magnets and need to have a few bobbins machined. I can extrapolate the bobbin size from the hole pattern on the original pickup cover, but sadly have no pickup to measure.

If anyone wants in on this project, contact me. I'll be having some parts made and of course, the more parts I buy, the less each one will cost.

Also, I'm looking for any leads of info on the magnet material that sits on the baseplate of the pickup. The "mystery magnet" material. Thanks.

littlericky · March 27th, 2008, 07:14 AM

I don't have an original but I can tell you that the pole screws do not line up with the holes in the covers on the MIM RI. Looks the the originals were much closer but still off.

Telenator · March 27th, 2008, 08:20 AM

If I could just get the measurements of the pole spacing I can figure out the rest. I have tried to buy an original but can't seem to find one anywhere. It's just a matter of time.

Thanks for the photos!

braderrick · March 27th, 2008, 08:37 AM

There's a buch of '70s thinline, customs, and deluxes on ebay. I assume most of them are authentic. You could do the "ask seller a question" thing. But like you said it's just a matter of time, I know there are tons of members on this forum that can help you out, and I'm sure they will.

quartermiler45 · March 28th, 2008, 10:14 AM

I'd be interested in hearing more about this project.

lammy · March 28th, 2008, 10:35 AM

ooo. me too!

Telenator · March 28th, 2008, 07:58 PM

Well, I have a source for the CuNiFe magnets and since the MIM pickup covers are most readily available, I'll probably base the pickups on that hole pattern even though it's not exactly like the the original. The few thousanths of an inch difference in pole spacing shouldn't be a big deal.

The one mystery remaining though, is the magnet material under the coils. I need to see an original pickup disassembled in order to to sort this bit out.

Anyone with a WRHB that has photos of the innards would be very welcome to join in here. I have the parts for my 72 Thinline. Now I just need the p'ups!

littlericky · March 28th, 2008, 11:14 PM

I'm confused. Originals use threaded cunife magnets as the poles, there is no magnet underneath. RI pickups use "steel" screws for the poles, there not magnets, therefore there are alnico(MIM) or ceramic(MIJ) bar magnets under the coils. You need one or the other, not both.

The simplest thing would be to have cunife screws made,threaded to replace the steel screws in RI pickups, just remember to make them the correct length as per the originals. You'll sell a truckload of them. It would be easy enough for modders to remove the bar magnets,use shims in thier place, and install the new cunife screws.

jefrs · March 29th, 2008, 05:14 AM

GFS do something like these 'Vintage Split Pole' about 8K, which sound authentic. I could not find genuine Fender WR either. This one is cheap enough that you could use it for parts. With it fitted it would be difficult to make measurements accurate enough for engineering work. The strings do pass directly over the poles on the 07 AmSer. The unit went straight into a stock pickguard, note single dog-ears. I've only made pickups from odd bits like re-winding big solenoids onto a bar magnet, so good luck with your project.

Telenator · March 29th, 2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlericky

I'm confused. Originals use threaded cunife magnets as the poles, there is no magnet underneath. RI pickups use "steel" screws for the poles, there not magnets, therefore there are alnico(MIM) or ceramic(MIJ) bar magnets under the coils. You need one or the other, not both.

The simplest thing would be to have cunife screws made,threaded to replace the steel screws in RI pickups, just remember to make them the correct length as per the originals. You'll sell a truckload of them. It would be easy enough for modders to remove the bar magnets,use shims in thier place, and install the new cunife screws.

From what I've been told, there is a piece, or small sheet of magnetic material that the bobbins rest on. I have not been able to get my hands on an original WRH to take it apart and see this for myself.

If it truly is a simple matter of replacing the threaded magnets, then I'm golden!

Anyone care to take a guess at the gaussing spec? And polarity of the originals?

I have the winding specs but don't know if the Re-issues match that spec. I'll have to pull one apart and see.

TELE_BLUES · March 29th, 2008, 10:04 AM

The p.u.'s i have from the 2005 mim '72 thinline reissue have an outside polepiece spacing center to center of 2.100"

WrapAround · March 29th, 2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefrs

GFS do something like these 'Vintage Split Pole' about 8K, which sound authentic. I could not find genuine Fender WR either.

I'm interested in WRs as well, so I have to ask this question. What does "sound authentic" really mean in this case? Did you A/B it with a real WR ('real' as in NOT a reissue one)? Or does it mean, "it sounds like how i remember old WRs sound like."?

vikki · March 29th, 2008, 10:42 AM

Is this the same Humbucker as in the 72 Custom, if so i have an original and a modern Japanese copy. I have digital calipers...if you need measurements let me know.
Regards
Vikki(uk)

TELE_BLUES · March 29th, 2008, 11:28 AM

I have a rewound WRHB i don't remember if it's a mij or mim.I had OWEN (OWEN DUFFY, O.C. DUFF) rewind it for me,he suggested alnico II and i'm real happy with it.

boneyguy · March 29th, 2008, 12:28 PM

If it turns out to be as simple as threading the CuNiFe rods then you might consider selling just the threaded pole pieces to those who already have the RI pickups??!!

quartermiler45 · March 29th, 2008, 09:08 PM

If this project is successful you will be the most popular man around, I might name my first born after you.

Please keep us up to date on this project.

Telenator · March 29th, 2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikki

Is this the same Humbucker as in the 72 Custom, if so i have an original and a modern Japanese copy. I have digital calipers...if you need measurements let me know.
Regards
Vikki(uk)

Thanks vikki. Yes, the '72 Custom pickups are the same as the '72 Thinline.

What I really need is to see how the pickup is put together. How the bobbins sit on the tray and if there is any material between the bobbins and the tray.

I am going to base my dimensions on the MIM pickup covers since they're most readily available.

yegbert · March 29th, 2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TELE_BLUES

The p.u.'s i have from the 2005 mim '72 thinline reissue have an outside polepiece spacing center to center of 2.100"

With the same spacing for the bridge and neck? Or are they wider on the bridge?

I wonder if either the CIJs or the originals are spaced differently on the bridge compared to the neck?

RumorsofsurF · March 30th, 2008, 12:27 AM

You found a source for CuNIFe?!?!?!

Outstanding. I want in! My MIM Tele Deluxe needs some CuNIFe M@J@!!!

Telenator · March 30th, 2008, 07:02 AM

I'll keep you guys up to date on the progress.

I just need to see one of the originals in pieces and I'll move forward with this.

TELE_BLUES · March 30th, 2008, 08:21 AM

YEGBERT,The ones on my 2005 mim are the same.

GUITARmole · March 30th, 2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrapAround

I'm interested in WRs as well, so I have to ask this question. What does "sound authentic" really mean in this case? Did you A/B it with a real WR ('real' as in NOT a reissue one)? Or does it mean, "it sounds like how i remember old WRs sound like."?

My thought exactly...it "sounds authentic" but that's coming from someone that couldn't find an original one so they have no basis of comparison??

I'm also confused about Telenator's intentions and/or motivation for the project?? If you don't have an original to inspect, listen to, and base the design of your polepieces or pickup on what's the inspiration for cloning an original WR?...and how are you going to know if you succeeded or not when done with nothing to compare the clone with??

CuNiFe magnets are (have been) available but to buy them from a supplier for use in pickups you'd need to buy them in rod form that's the correct diameter and have the rod threaded and cut to size along with having a flathead slot cut into one edge. Most (all?) of the magnet suppliers I know of also require a big quantity of magnets to be purchased (especially if you're specifying rod size, etc). I hate to be such a skeptic...but if it was so simple to secure CuNiFe polepieces in the proper configuration I would think that Fender would have done it for the reissues...and they're (Fender) certainly able to buy in larger quantities than Telenator is. If building an accurate WR is beyond the ability of Fender, Seymour Duncan, and Dimarzio I find it hard to believe that it's EVER going to happen.

The size of the bobbins, windings, construction, etc of the reissues and originals are completely different so it isn't as simple as putting CuNiFe mags in a reissue pickup. The polepieces aren't even the same size and don't have the same thread pattern (see original on bottom, reissue on top w/ wax around it to fit in the larger cover)

Original WR humbuckers are readily available...I see them EVERY week on fleabay and seem to be hovering around the $350-$400 range. Assuming someone has the money to fund sourcing and machining for CuNiFe magnets the purchase of an original $400 WR for research and comparison purposes is a "drop in the bucket".

My advice to those that want the tone of an original WR...BUY ONE!!

FWIW, I actualy hope Telenator will prove me wrong...I'm not holding my breath in the meantime though...

TELE_BLUES · March 30th, 2008, 09:38 PM

I'm no detective but i thought something looked kinda strange when i took the cover off my mim wrhb

.I had the cover off an original i had well over 20 years ago.This reminds me of a really cheap les paul copy i had when i was a kid.It was the brightest sounding l.p. ever.One day the bridge p.u. stopped working and i took it out to have a look when i popped the cover off i found a single coil strat like p.u. under the humbucker cover.No wonder i could never figure out why it always hummed so badly.Oh those crafty and oh so thrifty devils at fender stuck a cheapo mi who knows where humbucker in my wrhb case.I really liked the original '72 thinline i had way back when but it's hard to remeber exactly what it sounded like,but i was pretty sure the reissue was quite a bit different sounding.

Telenator · March 31st, 2008, 06:03 AM

I simply enjoy taking on projects that others have either abandoned or said, "that can't be done." Vintage Vibe in fact does make a replacement of sorts for a wide range humbucker. Perhaps the reason no one else does is simply because the demand isn't there. But that doesn't concern me.

My RickenRocker is an example of the lengths I'll go to when I'm presented with a challange.

I always wanted a Ric 360 but was bitterly disappointed when I finally bought one, so I made two of them to my own personal specs.

My carved top Tele is the same thing.

When I built this guitar, no one made anything like it. I wanted a carved top Tele with P90's so I built one.

I don't sell them. I just love a good project.

Having owned an original '72 Thinline, I have a soft spot for the guitar. I have recently purchased a used Tele neck and a MIM Thinline body from my fellow TDPRI members and these pickups will be going into this guitar.

Sure, I could just go out and spend $800 on a set of used WRHB's from ebay, but what fun is that? For a few more bucks, I can likely have the parts made and the bobbins wound for several of these and if people are interested, I'd be happy to discuss moving the excess at my cost. Of course that raises some other issues with the TDPRI here but, that too can be discussed. I'm not looking to get rich here. Just trying to have a good discussion and share the spoils! Projects like this are always the most fun when several people get involved and help eachother see it through. I'm just doing it as a personal project and hopefully, we can all benefit from it by having something really cool. And if no one is interested, that's fine too.

The worst thing someone can say to me is, "that can't be done." It's just my nature.

GUITARmole · March 31st, 2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

March 27th, 2008, 05:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Telenator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,179	Fender Wide Range Humbuckers Does anyone know if the the covers on the new Fender '72 Thinline re-issue pickups are the same size as the originals? What I'm most interested in is the hole spacing for the magnet slugs. Is the spacing the same as the originals? I have found a source for CuNiFe magnets and need to have a few bobbins machined. I can extrapolate the bobbin size from the hole pattern on the original pickup cover, but sadly have no pickup to measure. If anyone wants in on this project, contact me. I'll be having some parts made and of course, the more parts I buy, the less each one will cost. Also, I'm looking for any leads of info on the magnet material that sits on the baseplate of the pickup. The "mystery magnet" material. Thanks. __________________ Dogs have the right idea!

March 27th, 2008, 08:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
Telenator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,179	If I could just get the measurements of the pole spacing I can figure out the rest. I have tried to buy an original but can't seem to find one anywhere. It's just a matter of time. Thanks for the photos! __________________ Dogs have the right idea!

March 28th, 2008, 07:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
Telenator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,179	Well, I have a source for the CuNiFe magnets and since the MIM pickup covers are most readily available, I'll probably base the pickups on that hole pattern even though it's not exactly like the the original. The few thousanths of an inch difference in pole spacing shouldn't be a big deal. The one mystery remaining though, is the magnet material under the coils. I need to see an original pickup disassembled in order to to sort this bit out. Anyone with a WRHB that has photos of the innards would be very welcome to join in here. I have the parts for my 72 Thinline. Now I just need the p'ups! __________________ Dogs have the right idea!

March 29th, 2008, 05:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
jefrs Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Newbury, England Age: 53 Posts: 325	GFS do something like these 'Vintage Split Pole' about 8K, which sound authentic. I could not find genuine Fender WR either. This one is cheap enough that you could use it for parts. With it fitted it would be difficult to make measurements accurate enough for engineering work. The strings do pass directly over the poles on the 07 AmSer. The unit went straight into a stock pickguard, note single dog-ears. I've only made pickups from odd bits like re-winding big solenoids onto a bar magnet, so good luck with your project. Last edited by jefrs : June 9th, 2008 at 06:31 PM.

March 29th, 2008, 12:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
boneyguy Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: victoria b.c. Age: 50 Posts: 2,332	If it turns out to be as simple as threading the CuNiFe rods then you might consider selling just the threaded pole pieces to those who already have the RI pickups??!! __________________ "Shut up n' play yer guitar"

March 27th, 2008, 07:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
littlericky TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: LI,NY Posts: 20	I don't have an original but I can tell you that the pole screws do not line up with the holes in the covers on the MIM RI. Looks the the originals were much closer but still off.

March 27th, 2008, 08:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
braderrick Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kentucky Age: 25 Posts: 299	There's a buch of '70s thinline, customs, and deluxes on ebay. I assume most of them are authentic. You could do the "ask seller a question" thing. But like you said it's just a matter of time, I know there are tons of members on this forum that can help you out, and I'm sure they will.

March 28th, 2008, 10:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
quartermiler45 TDPRI Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: indiana Posts: 12	I'd be interested in hearing more about this project.

March 28th, 2008, 10:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
lammy TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 23	ooo. me too!

March 28th, 2008, 11:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
littlericky TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: LI,NY Posts: 20	I'm confused. Originals use threaded cunife magnets as the poles, there is no magnet underneath. RI pickups use "steel" screws for the poles, there not magnets, therefore there are alnico(MIM) or ceramic(MIJ) bar magnets under the coils. You need one or the other, not both. The simplest thing would be to have cunife screws made,threaded to replace the steel screws in RI pickups, just remember to make them the correct length as per the originals. You'll sell a truckload of them. It would be easy enough for modders to remove the bar magnets,use shims in thier place, and install the new cunife screws.

March 29th, 2008, 10:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
TELE_BLUES Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: new york Posts: 419 32 Photos	The p.u.'s i have from the 2005 mim '72 thinline reissue have an outside polepiece spacing center to center of 2.100"

March 29th, 2008, 10:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
vikki Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 338	Is this the same Humbucker as in the 72 Custom, if so i have an original and a modern Japanese copy. I have digital calipers...if you need measurements let me know. Regards Vikki(uk)

March 29th, 2008, 11:28 AM	#14 (permalink)
TELE_BLUES Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: new york Posts: 419 32 Photos	I have a rewound WRHB i don't remember if it's a mij or mim.I had OWEN (OWEN DUFFY, O.C. DUFF) rewind it for me,he suggested alnico II and i'm real happy with it.

March 29th, 2008, 09:08 PM	#16 (permalink)
quartermiler45 TDPRI Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: indiana Posts: 12	If this project is successful you will be the most popular man around, I might name my first born after you. Please keep us up to date on this project. __________________ http://apostolicguitarist.myfastforum.org Last edited by quartermiler45 : March 29th, 2008 at 09:09 PM. Reason: add more info

March 30th, 2008, 12:27 AM	#19 (permalink)
RumorsofsurF Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Independence, OR Age: 25 Posts: 343	You found a source for CuNIFe?!?!?! Outstanding. I want in! My MIM Tele Deluxe needs some CuNIFe M@J@!!! __________________ Forever coming back to the Tele....

March 30th, 2008, 07:02 AM	#20 (permalink)
Telenator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,179	I'll keep you guys up to date on the progress. I just need to see one of the originals in pieces and I'll move forward with this. __________________ Dogs have the right idea!

March 30th, 2008, 08:21 AM	#21 (permalink)
TELE_BLUES Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: new york Posts: 419 32 Photos	YEGBERT,The ones on my 2005 mim are the same.

March 30th, 2008, 09:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
TELE_BLUES Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: new york Posts: 419 32 Photos	I'm no detective but i thought something looked kinda strange when i took the cover off my mim wrhb .I had the cover off an original i had well over 20 years ago.This reminds me of a really cheap les paul copy i had when i was a kid.It was the brightest sounding l.p. ever.One day the bridge p.u. stopped working and i took it out to have a look when i popped the cover off i found a single coil strat like p.u. under the humbucker cover.No wonder i could never figure out why it always hummed so badly.Oh those crafty and oh so thrifty devils at fender stuck a cheapo mi who knows where humbucker in my wrhb case.I really liked the original '72 thinline i had way back when but it's hard to remeber exactly what it sounded like,but i was pretty sure the reissue was quite a bit different sounding.

March 31st, 2008, 06:03 AM	#24 (permalink)
Telenator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,179	I simply enjoy taking on projects that others have either abandoned or said, "that can't be done." Vintage Vibe in fact does make a replacement of sorts for a wide range humbucker. Perhaps the reason no one else does is simply because the demand isn't there. But that doesn't concern me. My RickenRocker is an example of the lengths I'll go to when I'm presented with a challange. I always wanted a Ric 360 but was bitterly disappointed when I finally bought one, so I made two of them to my own personal specs. My carved top Tele is the same thing. When I built this guitar, no one made anything like it. I wanted a carved top Tele with P90's so I built one. I don't sell them. I just love a good project. Having owned an original '72 Thinline, I have a soft spot for the guitar. I have recently purchased a used Tele neck and a MIM Thinline body from my fellow TDPRI members and these pickups will be going into this guitar. Sure, I could just go out and spend $800 on a set of used WRHB's from ebay, but what fun is that? For a few more bucks, I can likely have the parts made and the bobbins wound for several of these and if people are interested, I'd be happy to discuss moving the excess at my cost. Of course that raises some other issues with the TDPRI here but, that too can be discussed. I'm not looking to get rich here. Just trying to have a good discussion and share the spoils! Projects like this are always the most fun when several people get involved and help eachother see it through. I'm just doing it as a personal project and hopefully, we can all benefit from it by having something really cool. And if no one is interested, that's fine too. The worst thing someone can say to me is, "that can't be done." It's just my nature. __________________ Dogs have the right idea!