Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

[Telenator]

Wow, that was very nice of you l5jazzplayer. It's been a lot of fun e-mailing back and forth and tempted as I am by your cedar top Tele challange, I'm going to have to pass! Don't get me all riled up or I'll shift my attention towards guitar building!

[monstereo]

i love my 72 telecaster custom. love love love it. i had a japanese one in 96 but then i got stupid trying to improve the abysmal tone of the wide range humbucker, and wound up with 2 mini humbuckers and a gretsch filtertron before i gave up and sold it.

now i am starting from scratch with a MIM model, and surprisingly the WRH in that one is even worse than the japanese one. does anyone have any suggstions on rebuilding the current one, or does anybody do high quality rebuilds of the WRH?

it blows my mind that there is so little effort to do a good job with an aftermarket pickup for this one because as i make my way around the internet i see such a demand for them.

i have tried a rewind job (two times) on my mexican pickup, and they end up sounding too hot with even just a little more wire on the bobbins. so much of it is resting on the cunife magnet polepieces of the original humbuckers from the 70's, but the magnets are not in enough supply or much demand for that matter.

most people say the factory MIM ones sound like a gibson humbucker, and i would be willing to settle for a good quality burstbucker tone, but the mexican ones don't even really come close to that even.

fender must have bad memories of these pickups because they clearly are all about the "vintage mojo" look and care very little about the sound. pls help!

[l5jazzplayer]

Welcome to the Group Monstereo!
You came to the right place. Go back to the very beginning of this thread, about 8 pages worth, and begin reading. It will take you about and hour and a half or longer depending on how fast you read. You'll find the same thing I did. That Telenator has come up with a retrofit design that duplicates the original pickup. It's a very interesting read.

[johnnylaw]

Hi guys.

I just wanted to jump in here with a round of applause in support of the obsessive and fun-loving quirks that make a tone freak and guitar nut stay in the hunt for that elusive play quality of a given pickup. Give it up for Telenator.

We met a couple of weeks back and I got a snoot full of the fruits of his labor. This included A/B workouts of his creation against a MIM '72 RI Thinline and a vintage Deluxe Telecaster over a range of amplifiers (thanx GC!).

Telenators interpretation of the wide range solution is so "on" that you have to grin when the axe is in your hands. I know that the construction is different from the original, but the tone/response/flavor of his replacements is RIGHT THERE.

If I had a re-issue (Thinline, Deluxe, or Custom) I would seriously be looking into his solution. They really sound that good.

I have no other affiliation with the gentleman than hovering here at this beloved forum.

[Telenator]

aw man, that's nice of you John. We had a lot of fun playing all that gear and making the sales people nuts! LOL!

You had some nice mods on that big neck Tele 'o yours too. Almost had to pry it out of my hands!

Hey, it's fun being a bit of a tone freak if only for the sake of doing something different. This forum is chock full of decent, knowledgable people who I learn from daily. Play on!

[OaklandA]

Hopefully not straying off point, but have any of you explored the Fralin mod on these before buying replacements?

I had an opportunity to speak with Lindy on this and after trying it I am pretty pleased with the results. I have a '72 Thinline RI FSR, and a '72 Custom RI (both MIM).

The mod is to lower the pickups very far down....about flush for the neck pickup and a bit higher for the bridge. The top facing magnet screws are then heightened a full turn and then to volume adjustment. The bottom facing (hidden) mag screws are backed out a full two turns.

This takes a lot of the muffled sound out of these...particularly for the neck and opens them up a bit.

It is a shame that there aren't more aftermarket options for these, though I don't think the stock ones sound that bad (especially after the mod). I appreciate Telenator's efforts, but I am lucky to be able to hang on to the gear I have let alone pay $200 a throw for rewinds. BTW, Lindy Fralin is not planning on doing a version....I asked.

[Dababy]

Originally Posted by OaklandA

The mod is to lower the pickups very far down....about flush for the neck pickup and a bit higher for the bridge. The top facing magnet screws are then heightened a full turn and then to volume adjustment. The bottom facing (hidden) mag screws are backed out a full two turns.

This takes a lot of the muffled sound out of these...particularly for the neck and opens them up a bit.

I read that somewhere else (here on another forum?) and I tried it and it was really bad sounding - maybe I did it wrong, but I think when you get the magnets that far up from the bobbin windings it sounded too weak (and I like weaker pickups). However - when I lowered the magnets back into the bobbin even more than they originally were set - raised the pickup up closer to the strings - voila! Sounded better - maybe not anything like an original or Telenators revamped ones, but better to me at least.

[jivetrain]

Originally Posted by OaklandA

have any of you explored the Fralin mod on these before buying replacements?

i did and was happy with the clarity it gave me for a little while, but the cost is that the pickups become thin and fragile. they really didn't sound very satisfying after the mod.

[Telenator]

That Fralin mod is very interesting. As you raise the screws out of any humbucker or P90 the sound does thin out a bit. I had read here on TDPRI that if you remove the 6 hidden screws from each pickup, you get a better sound. I tried it and it was, well, different. It did brighten up a bit but the pickups lost their low end and any fullness they had.

This is surprising though because turning the screws on a pickup often makes little or no difference because they're not magnets. It's not nearly same dramatic effect you get by raising or lowering the srcew magnets in a WRHB.

[RotelliCaster]

I have to say, that I like the Sound of the stock pickups, once I changed the pots from the stock 250's to 500K pots.

I'm sure i would love a set of Telenator's Repro's but that would require another 72RI as I have no good reason to change this one, a third time.

After going to the 500K pots and getting the pups height adjusted to the best sound I could find, I enjoyed it for about a year. Then I picked up a new 69RI Thinline and found that they put 1Meg pots on the single coils (What the heck are they thinking when they build the Thinlines?) I changed these for 250k pots, a set of keystones, a 4way switch and a Q-filter tone circuit.

I ended up trying the 1meg pots with The WRHB's and I ended up with a cool glitch.

The neck pup sounds full and loud the bridge pup ended up thin and weak sounding(the glitch) But the middle position is "Freakin Awesome!" I thought about looking into what is wrong with the bridge pup, but I couldn't get the middle position tone like this again if I tried.

Maybe one day I can pick up a set of Telenator HB's for a few bucks less than the current list $. I'm sure that they are worth every penny, when you account for the time and materials that go into them and the pile of smiles that come out of them!

[Telenator]

I know the price is real steep for the retro-fit and I wish I could do it for less but when all the time that has gone into this project is considered, we're still in the red even after all 30 of these have moved. It's been a year since we started this and if you do the math, subtract materials and ongoing hours invested, you'll see it really isn't a money maker. It's just a big fun project that, thanks to so many interested people, took on a life of it's own. You don't have to make a big profit on everything you do. Sometimes it's just good to know that something cool is going on.

[OaklandA]

Telenator, I didn't mean to imply you were gouging anyone on the price. I've done some breakdowns of the costs to produce different things and many times it's just not worth it. I know you're not trying to compete with the boutique winders and may not have their economies of scale. Simply saying I can't afford it.

Regarding the "thin tone" after the Fralin mod...I guess this is where the phrase "your mileage may vary" comes in. I didn't run into that at all. I didn't mention that I had also replaced the pots with 500k pots at the same time....that may have had some bearing as well.

[RotelliCaster]

Originally Posted by OaklandA

Telenator, I didn't mean to imply you were gouging anyone on the price.

And I didn't I mean to imply that either.

Originally Posted by RotelliCaster

I'm sure that they are worth every penny, when you account for the time and materials that go into them and the pile of smiles that come out of them!

[Telenator]

Whoa! No worries. I just genuinely regret that these cost so much. They're such a great upgrade, (if I do say so myself), and it's a shame that, at the moment they can't be produced for less. I'm working on a few new ideas and perhaps at some point in the future this whole thing will become a lot more affordable.

I appreciate the sentiments and by no means thought you guys were complaning. It is expensive. Maybe Fender will take notice of the big interest people have generated here and do somehting about it.

[RotelliCaster]

Man, I'd snag a set in a heart beat if they were in my range. Maybe even a kit with the core of the pickup, the good stuff. I could always do the swap of the innards in my WRHB shells. On another guitar of course.

[TommyChung71]

These pickups are always talked about. Bump..

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by RotelliCaster

Man, I'd snag a set in a heart beat if they were in my range. Maybe even a kit with the core of the pickup, the good stuff. I could always do the swap of the innards in my WRHB shells. On another guitar of course.

One of the hardest parts of doing the retro-fit is quelling the microphonic feedback. I don't know why, but these are very problematic where that's concerned. We have had a couple that were slightly microphonic so we took them apart only to find that they were a solid block of wax and that there simply is no way they could be squealing. But squeal they did. We test every single one to make sure it's silent.

Since the holes on cover and the base on the re-issue pickup don't align properly, the base needs to be modified slightly to fit with the bobbins and it all kinda gets massaged into place so it all works without removing too much metal from the base and leaving enough meat between the holes for the mounting screws to grab. It really is quite tedious to put these together. I'm not saying it can't be done of course, but it's probably more difficult than most people think.

If you recall, there were several people who were going to attempt their own version of this and so far, I haven't heard of anyone else doing it successfully. I didn't know what I was in for when all this nonesense started either! YIKES!

[mackage]

Hey Telenator,

Are you still producing these pickups?

Your ideas have intrigued me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. :)

[Telenator]

Sorry, I don't have a news letter. I'm not a manufacturer. Just a crazy guy who loves a good project. I love to talk shop though.

[mackage]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Sorry, I don't have a news letter. I'm not a manufacturer. Just a crazy guy who loves a good project. I love to talk shop though.

Sorry, Simpsons reference. :)

I really just wanted to know if you were making any more of your WRHB anymore.

If so, how much are you looking at for one or a set?

[Telenator]

No problem man. I'm a Simpsons fan but didn't get the reference.

If you look in the classified section under Commercial Sellers, there's an ad there with the complete information.

[ESQUIREoholic]

All I can say is this guitar is with me forever and it has alot to do with the neck pickup I got from Telenator:


This is just a great pickup. Period. Your time and effort are greatly appreciated. It is warm jazzy to just great all out Rock and Roll.
I was hoping for years someone would actually do just this. The stock Fender is pretty good and part of the reason I got into Tele Customs, but kick it up a notch with a Telenator WRHP - it really is... "Musical"

[supersonicman]

Have you ever thought of instead of machining screw heads on the magnets, taking ordinary screws, removing the head, and gluing or attaching them by some other method to the top of the Magnet?

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by supersonicman

Have you ever thought of instead of machining screw heads on the magnets, taking ordinary screws, removing the head, and gluing or attaching them by some other method to the top of the Magnet?

While that is an interesting idea, it would effectively lower the magnets away from the strings and create the need to raise the whole pickup to the optimum spot. Besides, it was only for 30 pickups. It's not something I'd care to manufacture.

[monstereo]

I had one of Telenator's pickups put into my 72 tele custom and the thing sounded so incredible I have sent away to get a custom cut pickguard so I can put another one of his pickups in the bridge. The frequency response of the pickup is unreal. You know the sound. The bass is wide and huge and the high end cuts through with definition.

The difference between his pickups and the ones from the 70s is that you can count on the build quality of his being top notch. The ones from the 70s were spotty and clearly depended on what day of the week and what materials were at hand at the time. If you're a lucky ebay shopper you will find a good quality old pickup. If you don't want to chance it, get one of Telenator's Vintage Mods.

I am very particular when it comes to my sound, as I am sure most of the people on this forum are, and all I can say is that Telenator's Vintage mod is absolutely the best Wide Range Humbucker available.

[telechaser]

Wow. This thread makes me wanna get another Thinline RI to mod. I love my modded one with VV Vibetrons and won't touch it. The only way I would end up with Wide Range pups is to get another one. (Off to eBay to add a 72 Thinline RI on my watchlist.)

So, what pickups would be on a CS Thinline?

[stratohiker]

I wanted to chime in here and also say that after putting in 500K pots and removing the "spacers", I too encountered much more brightness but much less "fullness" of sound.
I just took things apart and put the spacers back in and presto, much better.
I'm gonna try it at the next gig and make sure but, It sounds much better thru my POD and the Princeton repro I have........
So, thanks you guys for jarring my brain on this....and giving me the idea to partially go back on the mods........

[cgallent]

Hope this is the right place to ask this question. But, which single coil bridge pup would you match with Telenator's neck pup to get the classic sound of the '72 Custom? My first guitar was one built in '78 that was my Dad's and sold it before I really knew what I had (real stupid move). So I'm going to build one and want to get the pickup combination right. I also saw that a few places online sell brand new, current version(s) of the WRHB, just the pup, if you want to grab one for Telenator to upgrade.

I agree w/ everyone else. This is a GREAT thread - thoroughly have enjoyed reading it.

[Staggered Mag]

The 70's era Tele pickups were grey bottom bobbin with alnico 5 magnets. The D& G magnets were raised. They were wound with 42 gauge plain enamel wire. They were more on the clean quacky bright Tele tone in sound. They generally measure 6.00K to 6.15k.

I think Klein pickups makes a 70's tele repro pickup. I'm sure most of the other custom winders do also.

[Telenator]

Be aware that striking a balance in output between a WRHB in the neck position and a single coil bridge pickup isn't going to happen. The neck pickup will always be much louder than the bridge pickup. It's just the nature of that particular set-up. The beauty of it is, you get a great middle position sound, and a killer neck position sound, but the bridge alone is going to be weak by comparison. Nothing wrong with that. It's just the way it is on that guitar.

[gumbo]

For bridge-matching, Telenator's comments are on the button...however, you could see how you like a SEYMOUR DUNCAN JERRY DONAHUE TELE LEAD PICKUP APTL-3JD

Comes closer, IMHO....