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Frontier9 · September 21st, 2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yegbert

This youtube clip looks like that natural finish Tele in action. He plays a lead starting around 4:05.

I could only see the bridge pickup partially in that clip, but it looked like either another WRHB or one of those a large bridgeplates made a humbucker. And I wonder from the tone if that isn't the bridge pickup being used there.

The neck is definitely a Tele headstock that would be correct for a Custom, rather than the large Strat headstock that would be correct for a Deluxe, though

That looks like a custom - you can see the single coil bridge pickup at 4:14 - 4:15. And from the looks of that switch at 4:24, he's playing the bridge pickup. Oh well...

I do know one thing, I have to start listening to Sheryl Crow!

robt57 · September 21st, 2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jivetrain

i think telenator has done a fair job explaining that he's been too busy to record clips

I did not mean to suggest 'telenator' should or had the burden of doing this. But rather that any recording/mp3 data point sure would take a lot of conjecture outta the equation.

Sorry if I made it sound that way telenator.

I was hoping other than the youtube I posted folks with experience with some or all of the WRHBs could shed light/opinion.

I built my pine custom [posted a pic in this thread offering it to be a test case] and had P-90s for it's maiden voyage and for a few days until some MIM WRHBs I bought from a TDPRI user came and I got them in.

I like the 8kish MIM Alnico WRHBs a lot, but I confess my HB experience to date has been the Gibby mini and full size ones.

Telenator · September 21st, 2008, 09:10 PM

OK, I have some sound clips but now have to figure out how to post them here. I have no place to host them so, well, I'll see what I can do.

We made a side trip to GC in Manchester CT today and asked a salesperson there to try my guitar and the original 70's they had there with two WRHB's in it. I always get the Deluxe and Custom confused! Anyway, the guy was an awesome player and was mightily impressed offering that he preferred the one in my guitar. The other sales people agreed! This is pretty exciting.

I'll see what I can do about posting the clips.

robt57 · September 21st, 2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telenator

OK, I have some sound clips but now have to figure out how to post them here. I have no place to host them so, well, I'll see what I can do.

I can host them if you need. If you email them to me I will put then on the net and give you the url or just post it which ever you like.

Robt

Telenator · September 21st, 2008, 09:35 PM

Thanks Robt! gibsonjunkie posted a link on another site but it doesn't seem to be working. He was also kind enough to record my choke-fest this afternoon in making the clips. At least you'll get an idea of what the pickup sounds like.

I only have clips of the neck pickup as I didn't have another vintage spec one ready to install.

If we continue to have problems posting, I'll take you up on your offer. Thanks so much!

Telenator · September 21st, 2008, 09:47 PM

OK, this should do it.

These clips were recorded right off a DRRI in a carpetted room with a mic directly into a recorder. They're pretty raw and I think that track 1 and 5 probably give the best idea of what the pickup sounds like.

Of course, the playing is a classic choke-fest as I just don't play well when I have to record and I'm not prepared so try not to rip up my playing too bad.

Here goes............

http://home.comcast.net/~nicholas.caruso/Docs/WRHB.htm

robt57 · September 21st, 2008, 10:00 PM

Sure sound tactile, nice. We need some bytes of the MIMs, CIJs and the originals.

Do you have any of the original PUP in that git ??

You tube of the MIMs I think

jivetrain · September 21st, 2008, 11:33 PM

sounds very nice to me. the strings all seem well balanced from one to the next and there's a little more apparent character than in the reissues i have. this is your new vintage spec version, right? i'm hoping you have the interest in recording your preferred original design soon as well, that would settle the last of the questions i have about these pickups. thanks

Telenator · September 22nd, 2008, 06:42 AM

jivetrain, at this time we're only going to have the vintage spec pickup. Please e-mail me with any further questions as this discussion might be out of bounds here on the open forum.

tpaul · September 22nd, 2008, 10:55 AM

Sounds great. By "lead" I assume you meant you were playing lead lines, not that the pickup was installed in the "lead" (bridge) position on the guitar... right? As I understand it these recordings were all of the rhythm PU version, I assume installed in the neck position. And this was a solid body Tele, right? Should we also assume the vol and tone were full up on the guitar?

Thanks a lot for posting these, it's very helpful to be able to actually hear the pickups.

robt57 · September 22nd, 2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpaul

Sounds great. By "lead" I assume you meant you were playing lead lines, not that the pickup was installed in the "lead" (bridge) position on the guitar... right?

"All done with Custom Telecaster" as in one WRHB at the neck ???

If he had typed "TelecasterCustom" I would have thought he meant the one with one WRHB at the neck, and there-fore logic sez it was that it was the rhythm PUP which is what it sounds like. ;)

Telenator · September 22nd, 2008, 02:42 PM

Sorry for the lack of info on the guitar and set up.

The guitar is a Fender MIM Thinline body with an American Standard Tele neck on it. Maple fretboard.

The volume and tone pots are 1 meg and were turned up to 10 for the recording.

The amp is a brand new Fender Deluxe Reverb re-issue.

The mic was placed about 18 inches from the amp and off to one side of the speaker. The amp was on the floor in a room with wall to wall carpet and padding.

The pickup is in the neck position as I didn't have another vintage spec pickup ready to load into the bridge spot.

If I had played one of the original 70's Telecasters through the same rig, the similarities would have been frightening! You should hear these side by side. It gets me all revved up!

ESQUIREoholic · September 22nd, 2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telenator

OK, I have some sound clips but now have to figure out how to post them here. I have no place to host them so, well, I'll see what I can do.

We made a side trip to GC in Manchester CT today and asked a salesperson there to try my guitar and the original 70's they had there with two WRHB's in it. I always get the Deluxe and Custom confused! Anyway, the guy was an awesome player and was mightily impressed offering that he preferred the one in my guitar. The other sales people agreed! This is pretty exciting.

I'll see what I can do about posting the clips.

That's got be great news to you. I couple sets of 'outside the box' ears trying your pickup and actually preferring it to the original PU's on hand.
Surely it could have something to do with the guitars the pickups were in but certainly mightly encouraging nevertheless.
That's Great!

BTW the sound clips are greatly appreciated. Nothing like seeing a project through and goods things to show for it. Cheers!

Telenator · September 23rd, 2008, 09:14 AM

Yes, of course, different guitars will yield different results. That's the reason some people will say "Van Zandts are absolutely the best Strat replacement pickups ever!" while others who have tried them will wonder what you've been smoking! There's nothing wrong with those pickups, but many people will have widely different experineces.

This retro-fit WRHB sounds just like a WRHB. But lets face it, that doesn't mean it's going to sound great in all guitars. During this project I have played a lot of original 70's Teles with WRHB's in them. Some were real jewels while others were real dogs. But as I listened and learned, I became much more capable of hearing the pickup and isolating that from the guitar. This has been an extremely interesting project and I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about pickups. And even at that, my knowledge is still small compared to those who do an excellent job of this as their business.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll hear reports coming in from people who play these and I expect them to vary greatly. It's just the nature of the beast. One thing is for sure though, no matter what this pickup sounds like in your personal guitar, it still sounds like a WRHB!

Rooney · September 28th, 2008, 02:14 AM

Just listened to the clips, it sounds like I remember my teacher's Tele Custom. (or custom tele I forget which way around it is) All I remember for certain is that the WRHB mixed with the bridge was a monster for the Woman tone. Nailed the hell out of it. It's good to know that someone knows how to make these and make 'em right.

ESQUIREoholic · September 28th, 2008, 05:00 AM

I would agree there is something about the WRHP with the Tele bridge PU on the Customs when run together. That's a big reason why I really like the Customs. That and the fact that the WRHP has a sound all its' own.

Telenator · September 28th, 2008, 11:27 AM

I'll try to get some clips together of the neck and bridge together just as soon as I can. I just have to clear the work bench of my other projects long enough to install the pickup again. I'll also attempt to include some screaming bridge p'up sounds and a little jangly stuff too. If only I didn't have to sleep, I might be able to get a few things done around here!

ESQUIREoholic · September 28th, 2008, 12:37 PM

I completely understand where you're coming from. I have way to many projects going all the time but I do finish them and there is something in that.

I've been very anxious to see where this project would get to and the fact you made it a reality is a real accomplishment. This must have taken many many hours to pull this together and actually pull this pickup together.
Believe me, there are many of us that wish we had the resources and patience to achieve something that has evolved into a great pickup.

If you do find the time, I would love to hear your WRHP with a bridge blend.
Keep up the good work.

Telenator · September 28th, 2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESQUIREoholic

If you do find the time, I would love to hear your WRHP with a bridge blend.
Keep up the good work.

Thanks man! Hey, it's something I really enjoy so, yeah, it is a lot of work but it's not unpleasant. I love seeing projects through to the end and look forward to some new challanges.

The first is my L6-S and "enlarged" Les Paul projects.

After that I have an idea for the most awesome pedal board anyone has ever used! I have been modifying mine for a long time and have come up with a new approach to some old problems that make my pedal board easier to use, faster to set-up, more neat & tidy, and functions way better than any I have ever used. That's gonna be along in a few months though, once I get these guitars fully in the works and these pickups all wound, built and tested.

Lots to do!!!

ESQUIREoholic · September 28th, 2008, 09:52 PM

That Pedal board sounds interesting. Hope you post some of those ideas here somewhere in the forum. The cord battles during hook up can be a drag.

Telenator · September 29th, 2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESQUIREoholic

That Pedal board sounds interesting. Hope you post some of those ideas here somewhere in the forum. The cord battles during hook up can be a drag.

All of that is covered. It's amazingly simple. I'll post photos once it's all together.

Rooney · September 29th, 2008, 07:33 PM

Have you thought of making a simple site to showcase all of these projects? After you get done all of these it'd be nice to have a place to go to see photos of the projects with the descriptions and maybe even audio/video samples to accompany them. Just a thought.

jivetrain · October 8th, 2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooney

Have you thought of making a simple site to showcase all of these projects?

seconded. i remember how great a resource the 72' custom club was when gathering information about the 70's teles and the wide range humbuckers. i imagine telenator has gathered enough knowledge during this project to put together a site that could become the best resource for information about these pickups on the web. or he could at least correct the information on wikipedia...

because this thread is sinking to the bottom of the pile, and because people seem to like hearing the original pickups, here's a clip of an actual 70's deluxe in action. note how the guitarist on the right looks like he wants to bludgeon his friend at times.
i don't know how to embed.

Telenator · October 15th, 2008, 10:51 AM

Damn! I'm on the road right now and dying to hear how your sound clip compares with mine but this dang computer doesn't have sound!!!

quartermiler45 · October 23rd, 2008, 08:24 PM

I found another gentleman on Youtube that has posted several clips of what looks to be a genuine 72 Deluxe. I figure the p/u's are original. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5lP...eature=related

jivetrain · November 1st, 2008, 12:17 AM

it just occurred to me that in the midst of finding these WR humbucker clips i forgot that my favorite guitarist, jonny greenwood of radiohead, plays a starcaster loaded with the pickups on a number of songs. anyone who's ever heard kid a or amnesiac has heard the starcaster's sound very well. here's some clips:

the best example by far is you and whose army, which has pretty much a whole minute of just the guitar and singing. the video in the link uses it in the background. i have to say, as iffy as sound clips can be i definitely hear some similarity between telenator's clips and this guitar.

a few more for those who like radiohead or want to hear more examples of the WRH, or for those who just like seeing pale, lanky englishmen stumbling around stage awkwardly:

in limbo
the tourist

Teleconvict · December 9th, 2008, 07:48 PM

Hey folks, Telenator in particular, just wanted to add my appreciation and admiration to the general background hum of lovelyness that surrounds this fantastic thread.

Having stumbled across this whilst performing a fruitless search for CuNiFe to try and re-create an Original Sounding WRHB

I have just spent a joyous couple of hours reading the entire post with much enthusiasm.

Assuming you don't object and if I can source what i need in the UK I intend to try and recreate your work (given time) using the info in this post. Though I may not bother cutting fake Screw heads into the magnets!

By the way, the clips sound awesome through my setup, and really convinced me that you've really hit on something.(I have good quality studio monitors running through a V good audio interface on my computer and i can really get a good sense on your pups through them.)

Once again Great Stuff!

Telenator · December 9th, 2008, 08:07 PM

Do your thing Teleconvict, but be warned. This is a lot more labor intensive than it appears. By the time you get close to having a working pickup, you'll probably wish you had just bought a used one on ebay! LOL!

We ran into so many problems along the way with this project it's not funny! Have a go. Most of the information you'll need to get the job done is right here in this thread. It's open to anyone who chooses to venture into the void!

Good luck to you and be sure to post some clips! These pickups are really awesome sounding (once we got it right), and offer something a bit different than all of the rest of what's available out there right now. Enjoy!

jefrs · December 9th, 2008, 08:57 PM

Teleconvict, good luck with your project.

FYI Axesrus sell a split pole pickup for tele for £21 by G&B

which is very good (appears to be GFS type but it's G&B), as good as any of the sound clips posted. Not just my opinion but of everyone that's heard it, one chap to the point of abandoning his Gibbo ES175 and begging use of my tele.
It may not be 100% authentic but imo it might make a good starting point for mods.

Not to be confused with this one at £19

which may or may not be, I simply did not install this one.

No, I can't tell them apart but Axesrus are very good at queries & explaining why the two quid difference, make, model, wiring. They also sell odd things like pole screws, they might be able to source bits.

Teleconvict · December 10th, 2008, 09:17 AM

Telenator, thanks for your go ahead!
I would not feel right using all your research without approval.

My plan, for what its worth is to copy as close as I can your method, materials etc but I am not gonna get too stuck on having to use the same bobbin material, vintage wire etc. Looking on stewmac I can see most of what I need readily listed so if all else fails I can order parts from them. If its not too much to ask, any info on particular stumbling blocks or problems you came across in the process would be cool?

No worries if you can't /don't want to. I guess your pretty busy taking photos, planning xmas, riding your motorcycle, gigging and recreating hens teeth vintage pickups

Cheers

Jefrs, thanks for the info on sourcing etc. Like Telenator I plan to use the shell of my existing MIM RI WRHB

to house the guts of the pickup.

(also gotta crazy idea to see if I can make it splittable and build a single coil thats exactly half of my repro for the bridge... but we'll see...

)

Bye for now

Telenator · December 10th, 2008, 09:41 AM

Well, the right bobbins, (mine are custom machined), are critical to the the whole thing fitting together well and being the right size to properly accept the 6800 winds per coil. That took some doing. A few tries, and a fair amount of expense prototyping the coils.

The wire is important too. We tried urethane wire and the pickup sounded very different. Harsh on the high end and less depth to the lows.

The holes in the MIM covers do not match exactly the holes in the baseplate. Why Fender did this is beyond me.

The bobbin mounting screw holes are perilously close to the magnet holes as well which will easily get "cut through" when trying to enlarge them to line up with all the other holes.

Beware of the magnets touching the frame or cover as a light contact will cause feedback and microphonic symptoms that will have you pulling your hair out!

Be very careful cutting the magnets as they'er not fond of excessive heat, and are very tough to cut with anything short of a Wire EDM Machine.

It really does look quite simple to build these at the outset. But once you get started, you will quickly see that doing it properly takes way more effort than you thought. Sure, a guy can cobble something together and have it work for a "one-off" piece but we agreed to make 30 of these and that put a completely different spin on it. Fortunately, much of the pain will be eliviated by the info in this thread.

It took us about 8 months of research and testing to pull this off. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

No need for "my approval." I wouldn't have posted this here if it was all a big dark secret. The fact is, as you will soon prove, it's not as easy as it looks!

Good luck with the project! This kind of stuff is a lot of fun!

.......and if you get discouraged, and really need to have "the tone," you know where to look! Enjoy!

Teleconvict · December 10th, 2008, 06:14 PM

Thanks for getting back on those issues, looks like I have some food for thought there!

How did you get around the magnets touching cover issue with yours poking through to resemble the original screw heads?
that must have been a nightmare?
Anyway back to the catalogues, books and research for me.

Thanks again.

Teleconvict · December 10th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telenator

The wire is important too. We tried urethane wire and the pickup sounded very different. Harsh on the high end and less depth to the lows.

I have found a source for what is described as Very old rare stock of 'Oleack' enamelled copper wire, does that sound similar to what you used in your pick up? (no pun intended) Also, I may have missed something back along in the thread but did you ever nail down if the base plate was magnetised in its own right or if it was indeed an insulator of some kind?

as for Bobbins, well I'm gonna have fun with that part to start with

somehow I 'd got it into my head that winding directly onto the magnets would be an option, but it seems that just aint gonna cut it.

Ah well its all good fun.

Teleconvict · December 14th, 2008, 07:43 PM

If anyone is still interested I am attempting to build a UK version of these pickups.

I have ripped off a great deal of Telenator's work but I am going to do a few things differently due to, amongst other factors, availability of materials in the UK .

I am going to find it hard to either cut myself or get cut the magnets. So I have been thinking of other ways of reducing the overall magnetic field and hopefully preserving as closely as poss the DC resistance / mag field ratio.
I am going to try using alnico five and alnico 3 magnets in combination. If I use the fives for the bass strings and the 3's for the treble that should lend itself to a balanced tone that's tight in the bass and nice and singy at the top with out getting harsh and tinny. Basically its the same idea that SD uses in the nashville 'five two' tele neck pickup but using al 3 cause i can get hold of some fairly easily.

I also have to contend with the conversion to metric and sadly, slightly skinnier wire (.061 mm as opposed to .063) which will mean less turns to get up to the right level of resistance (around 6300 per coil). This means that my bobbins will be minutely different form Telenator's and have slightly less turns on them with different magnetic characteristics all these differences will doubtless change the end result but hopefully they will have enough of the same characteristics as the originals to satisfy.

With luck and about six to eight months hard work I will post some clips and you can all hear my results. Eventually.

jivetrain · December 14th, 2008, 10:03 PM

i wish you luck. i've got a set of telenator's and they're fantastic pickups, worth all of the effort if you ask me. then again i probably don't know half the effort involved...

i like your idea of alnico 3 for the treble. it seems to have a sweeter sound than alnico 5 from what i've heard in the limited pickup testing i've done. telenator's wide ranges are a little on the bright side with 1 megs, though the treble is very nice and smooth. using alnico 3 may reign in the highs in a little, which could be nice.

on another note, i'll find it really funny if telenator's project inspires others to make their own wide ranges like this rather than buying originals at auction. looks like the days of price gouging ebayers may be over...

Teleconvict · December 15th, 2008, 09:25 AM

Yes it would be nice wouldn't it.

But I have a feeling that this is going to prove more complex than I had imagined and may work out to be a deeply impractical way of getting what I am after.

But I will hopefully learn something and get myself some good pickups!

yaduch · January 20th, 2009, 09:18 AM

Hello, I've searched the whole web for a WR replacement and/or a way to build one before reading this thread ! I found it really interesting.

Congratulations to Telenator, his pickup seems to be very cool !

But reading that, I think I will forget my idea to build a WR from scratch, it seems to be a little harder than I thought.

I'm the happy owner of a Japanese Telecaster Deluxe (74 reissue). This is a really good quality guitar (better than MIM reissues), but the pickups are quite differents than both originals and MIM reissues WR (I know it is ceramic, and it sounds like ceramic)

Is anybody has compared, stutied, dissected, those japan version of the WR ?

Telenator · January 20th, 2009, 09:32 AM

In the process of building these pickups, we experimented with several different winding specs and magnet specs as well.

The final formula we came up with yeilds a WRHB that truly mimics the original so closely it's scarey. And while that's great for people who totally dig "vintage spec" sounds, I too feel there are other ways of making this pickup sound even better than the original.

But the point here wasn't to make a better sounding pickup. It was to make one that sounds as close as it possibly can to the original. In that regard, the project has been extremely successful.

But when we start to toss around terms like "better sounding" or "smoother highs" or less "pronounced bass" we enter into a very ambiguous area where each guitar is going to react differently with the same identical pickups and each person will have a different opinion on the same exact thing.

In reality, we cannot actually comment on a single pickup per se, we can only comment on how that pickup performs in our personal guitar.

In the testing phase of this project we compared our pickups in two different guitars with several other original 70's Fenders until we were able to discern the actual pickup voice from the combined sound of guitar + pickup. This is the testing we based our final specs on. It was a lot more tedius than I ever thought it would be!

Anyway, I'm really thrilled that you guys like them.

yaduch · January 21st, 2009, 05:25 AM

Actually I don't really care about the exact "real" WR vintage sound, but I really like this idea of a humbucker made like a singlecoil !

My japanese reissue sounds good, but a little too much like a gibson. I'd like to "fenderize" it.
Moreover ceramic sounds a little cold in my opinion.

l5jazzplayer · March 21st, 2009, 01:35 PM

I'm new to the group. I began researching the Fender WRHB pickups before purchasing my new 2008 MIM Fender Telecaster Deluxe. I heard a friend's guitar, which was a 1978 Deluxe and it sounded fantastic. Used, abused, beat up, neglected and sounded fantastic. I had been in the market to buy a Tele but wasn't sure I wanted to drop the $2700 - $3000 on a vintage deluxe. I tried the Standard, the Custom, and finally the Deluxe. It had the best sound to me, however it didn't match the vintage tone that my friend's guitar had. I then researched the whole CuNiFe thing and came upon this thread. After spending two and a half hours reading the thread I was convinced that I needed to get two of the pickups made by Telenator for my new MIM Telecaster Deluxe.

In reading the thread, I realized that he is ONLY going to make 30 of these pickups, as he is not a pickup manufacturer; it's just a fun side project for him. After contacting him, he told me that he has already sold 7 pair and only had 16 left. While $250 each is expensive to me and most of us, it is certainly a bargain compared to $600 each for vintage pickups parted out from vintage instruments. I sent off my two brand new '72 RI WRHB to get the retrofit. I didn't want to wait and possibly miss out.

If you're one of those "wait and see" kind of people, you may want to go ahead and pull the trigger and get a set before they're all gone. I'm glad I did. I'm sure I won't regret my decision. And besides, if I don't like them, which is very doubtful, I can always install the factory WRHB that came with my guitar as Telenator returns them with the pickup order (without the covers of course).

I have my order placed and he is working on them as I write this. I can't wait to get them.

September 21st, 2008, 09:10 PM	#243 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	OK, I have some sound clips but now have to figure out how to post them here. I have no place to host them so, well, I'll see what I can do. We made a side trip to GC in Manchester CT today and asked a salesperson there to try my guitar and the original 70's they had there with two WRHB's in it. I always get the Deluxe and Custom confused! Anyway, the guy was an awesome player and was mightily impressed offering that he preferred the one in my guitar. The other sales people agreed! This is pretty exciting. I'll see what I can do about posting the clips. __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

September 21st, 2008, 09:35 PM	#245 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	Thanks Robt! gibsonjunkie posted a link on another site but it doesn't seem to be working. He was also kind enough to record my choke-fest this afternoon in making the clips. At least you'll get an idea of what the pickup sounds like. I only have clips of the neck pickup as I didn't have another vintage spec one ready to install. If we continue to have problems posting, I'll take you up on your offer. Thanks so much! __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

September 21st, 2008, 09:47 PM	#246 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	OK, this should do it. These clips were recorded right off a DRRI in a carpetted room with a mic directly into a recorder. They're pretty raw and I think that track 1 and 5 probably give the best idea of what the pickup sounds like. Of course, the playing is a classic choke-fest as I just don't play well when I have to record and I'm not prepared so try not to rip up my playing too bad. Here goes............ http://home.comcast.net/~nicholas.caruso/Docs/WRHB.htm __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

September 21st, 2008, 10:00 PM	#247 (permalink)
robt57 Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Lost Yankee in Nashville Age: 52 Posts: 5,862 22 Photos	Sure sound tactile, nice. We need some bytes of the MIMs, CIJs and the originals. Do you have any of the original PUP in that git ?? You tube of the MIMs I think __________________ Leo's Great, Leo's Good, let us thank him for our... Twang!

September 22nd, 2008, 06:42 AM	#249 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	jivetrain, at this time we're only going to have the vintage spec pickup. Please e-mail me with any further questions as this discussion might be out of bounds here on the open forum. __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

September 21st, 2008, 11:33 PM	#248 (permalink)
jivetrain Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: iowa Posts: 596 2 Photos	sounds very nice to me. the strings all seem well balanced from one to the next and there's a little more apparent character than in the reissues i have. this is your new vintage spec version, right? i'm hoping you have the interest in recording your preferred original design soon as well, that would settle the last of the questions i have about these pickups. thanks

September 22nd, 2008, 10:55 AM	#250 (permalink)
tpaul Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 1,341 4 Photos	Sounds great. By "lead" I assume you meant you were playing lead lines, not that the pickup was installed in the "lead" (bridge) position on the guitar... right? As I understand it these recordings were all of the rhythm PU version, I assume installed in the neck position. And this was a solid body Tele, right? Should we also assume the vol and tone were full up on the guitar? Thanks a lot for posting these, it's very helpful to be able to actually hear the pickups.

September 22nd, 2008, 02:42 PM	#252 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	Sorry for the lack of info on the guitar and set up. The guitar is a Fender MIM Thinline body with an American Standard Tele neck on it. Maple fretboard. The volume and tone pots are 1 meg and were turned up to 10 for the recording. The amp is a brand new Fender Deluxe Reverb re-issue. The mic was placed about 18 inches from the amp and off to one side of the speaker. The amp was on the floor in a room with wall to wall carpet and padding. The pickup is in the neck position as I didn't have another vintage spec pickup ready to load into the bridge spot. If I had played one of the original 70's Telecasters through the same rig, the similarities would have been frightening! You should hear these side by side. It gets me all revved up! __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

September 23rd, 2008, 09:14 AM	#254 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	Yes, of course, different guitars will yield different results. That's the reason some people will say "Van Zandts are absolutely the best Strat replacement pickups ever!" while others who have tried them will wonder what you've been smoking! There's nothing wrong with those pickups, but many people will have widely different experineces. This retro-fit WRHB sounds just like a WRHB. But lets face it, that doesn't mean it's going to sound great in all guitars. During this project I have played a lot of original 70's Teles with WRHB's in them. Some were real jewels while others were real dogs. But as I listened and learned, I became much more capable of hearing the pickup and isolating that from the guitar. This has been an extremely interesting project and I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about pickups. And even at that, my knowledge is still small compared to those who do an excellent job of this as their business. Anyway, I'm sure you'll hear reports coming in from people who play these and I expect them to vary greatly. It's just the nature of the beast. One thing is for sure though, no matter what this pickup sounds like in your personal guitar, it still sounds like a WRHB! __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

September 28th, 2008, 02:14 AM	#255 (permalink)
Rooney Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 313	Just listened to the clips, it sounds like I remember my teacher's Tele Custom. (or custom tele I forget which way around it is) All I remember for certain is that the WRHB mixed with the bridge was a monster for the Woman tone. Nailed the hell out of it. It's good to know that someone knows how to make these and make 'em right.

September 28th, 2008, 05:00 AM	#256 (permalink)
ESQUIREoholic Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2005 Location: Silver Spring, Md. Posts: 1,049	I would agree there is something about the WRHP with the Tele bridge PU on the Customs when run together. That's a big reason why I really like the Customs. That and the fact that the WRHP has a sound all its' own. __________________ Alright, hand over the Tele...and no one gets hurt!

September 28th, 2008, 11:27 AM	#257 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	I'll try to get some clips together of the neck and bridge together just as soon as I can. I just have to clear the work bench of my other projects long enough to install the pickup again. I'll also attempt to include some screaming bridge p'up sounds and a little jangly stuff too. If only I didn't have to sleep, I might be able to get a few things done around here! __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

September 28th, 2008, 12:37 PM	#258 (permalink)
ESQUIREoholic Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2005 Location: Silver Spring, Md. Posts: 1,049	I completely understand where you're coming from. I have way to many projects going all the time but I do finish them and there is something in that. I've been very anxious to see where this project would get to and the fact you made it a reality is a real accomplishment. This must have taken many many hours to pull this together and actually pull this pickup together. Believe me, there are many of us that wish we had the resources and patience to achieve something that has evolved into a great pickup. If you do find the time, I would love to hear your WRHP with a bridge blend. Keep up the good work. __________________ Alright, hand over the Tele...and no one gets hurt!

September 28th, 2008, 09:52 PM	#260 (permalink)
ESQUIREoholic Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2005 Location: Silver Spring, Md. Posts: 1,049	That Pedal board sounds interesting. Hope you post some of those ideas here somewhere in the forum. The cord battles during hook up can be a drag. __________________ Alright, hand over the Tele...and no one gets hurt!

September 29th, 2008, 07:33 PM	#262 (permalink)
Rooney Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 313	Have you thought of making a simple site to showcase all of these projects? After you get done all of these it'd be nice to have a place to go to see photos of the projects with the descriptions and maybe even audio/video samples to accompany them. Just a thought.

October 15th, 2008, 10:51 AM	#264 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	Damn! I'm on the road right now and dying to hear how your sound clip compares with mine but this dang computer doesn't have sound!!! __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

October 23rd, 2008, 08:24 PM	#265 (permalink)
quartermiler45 TDPRI Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 44	I found another gentleman on Youtube that has posted several clips of what looks to be a genuine 72 Deluxe. I figure the p/u's are original. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5lP...eature=related __________________ 72 Tele RI w/ telenator's WRHB MXR MC404 Wah > Diamond Compressor > FD2 > Korg DT10 > Boss TR2 > EB Jr. VP > Boss CE2 > Boss DD7, tap tempo Omega Hot Rod Deluxe http://praiseandworshipforum.com/forum/index

November 1st, 2008, 12:17 AM	#266 (permalink)
jivetrain Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: iowa Posts: 596 2 Photos	it just occurred to me that in the midst of finding these WR humbucker clips i forgot that my favorite guitarist, jonny greenwood of radiohead, plays a starcaster loaded with the pickups on a number of songs. anyone who's ever heard kid a or amnesiac has heard the starcaster's sound very well. here's some clips: the best example by far is you and whose army, which has pretty much a whole minute of just the guitar and singing. the video in the link uses it in the background. i have to say, as iffy as sound clips can be i definitely hear some similarity between telenator's clips and this guitar. a few more for those who like radiohead or want to hear more examples of the WRH, or for those who just like seeing pale, lanky englishmen stumbling around stage awkwardly: in limbo the tourist Last edited by jivetrain; November 1st, 2008 at 04:42 AM. Reason: better clips

December 9th, 2008, 07:48 PM	#267 (permalink)
Teleconvict NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Age: 34 Posts: 6	Could this be the answer!! Hey folks, Telenator in particular, just wanted to add my appreciation and admiration to the general background hum of lovelyness that surrounds this fantastic thread. Having stumbled across this whilst performing a fruitless search for CuNiFe to try and re-create an Original Sounding WRHB I have just spent a joyous couple of hours reading the entire post with much enthusiasm. Assuming you don't object and if I can source what i need in the UK I intend to try and recreate your work (given time) using the info in this post. Though I may not bother cutting fake Screw heads into the magnets! By the way, the clips sound awesome through my setup, and really convinced me that you've really hit on something.(I have good quality studio monitors running through a V good audio interface on my computer and i can really get a good sense on your pups through them.) Once again Great Stuff!

December 9th, 2008, 08:07 PM	#268 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	Do your thing Teleconvict, but be warned. This is a lot more labor intensive than it appears. By the time you get close to having a working pickup, you'll probably wish you had just bought a used one on ebay! LOL! We ran into so many problems along the way with this project it's not funny! Have a go. Most of the information you'll need to get the job done is right here in this thread. It's open to anyone who chooses to venture into the void! Good luck to you and be sure to post some clips! These pickups are really awesome sounding (once we got it right), and offer something a bit different than all of the rest of what's available out there right now. Enjoy! __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

December 9th, 2008, 08:57 PM	#269 (permalink)
jefrs Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Newbury, England Age: 54 Posts: 2,142	Teleconvict, good luck with your project. FYI Axesrus sell a split pole pickup for tele for £21 by G&B which is very good (appears to be GFS type but it's G&B), as good as any of the sound clips posted. Not just my opinion but of everyone that's heard it, one chap to the point of abandoning his Gibbo ES175 and begging use of my tele. It may not be 100% authentic but imo it might make a good starting point for mods. Not to be confused with this one at £19 which may or may not be, I simply did not install this one. No, I can't tell them apart but Axesrus are very good at queries & explaining why the two quid difference, make, model, wiring. They also sell odd things like pole screws, they might be able to source bits.

December 10th, 2008, 09:17 AM	#270 (permalink)
Teleconvict NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Age: 34 Posts: 6	Ah, hard work you say! Telenator, thanks for your go ahead! I would not feel right using all your research without approval. My plan, for what its worth is to copy as close as I can your method, materials etc but I am not gonna get too stuck on having to use the same bobbin material, vintage wire etc. Looking on stewmac I can see most of what I need readily listed so if all else fails I can order parts from them. If its not too much to ask, any info on particular stumbling blocks or problems you came across in the process would be cool? No worries if you can't /don't want to. I guess your pretty busy taking photos, planning xmas, riding your motorcycle, gigging and recreating hens teeth vintage pickups Cheers Jefrs, thanks for the info on sourcing etc. Like Telenator I plan to use the shell of my existing MIM RI WRHB to house the guts of the pickup. (also gotta crazy idea to see if I can make it splittable and build a single coil thats exactly half of my repro for the bridge... but we'll see... ) Bye for now Last edited by Teleconvict; December 10th, 2008 at 09:19 AM. Reason: typo

December 10th, 2008, 09:41 AM	#271 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	Well, the right bobbins, (mine are custom machined), are critical to the the whole thing fitting together well and being the right size to properly accept the 6800 winds per coil. That took some doing. A few tries, and a fair amount of expense prototyping the coils. The wire is important too. We tried urethane wire and the pickup sounded very different. Harsh on the high end and less depth to the lows. The holes in the MIM covers do not match exactly the holes in the baseplate. Why Fender did this is beyond me. The bobbin mounting screw holes are perilously close to the magnet holes as well which will easily get "cut through" when trying to enlarge them to line up with all the other holes. Beware of the magnets touching the frame or cover as a light contact will cause feedback and microphonic symptoms that will have you pulling your hair out! Be very careful cutting the magnets as they'er not fond of excessive heat, and are very tough to cut with anything short of a Wire EDM Machine. It really does look quite simple to build these at the outset. But once you get started, you will quickly see that doing it properly takes way more effort than you thought. Sure, a guy can cobble something together and have it work for a "one-off" piece but we agreed to make 30 of these and that put a completely different spin on it. Fortunately, much of the pain will be eliviated by the info in this thread. It took us about 8 months of research and testing to pull this off. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. No need for "my approval." I wouldn't have posted this here if it was all a big dark secret. The fact is, as you will soon prove, it's not as easy as it looks! Good luck with the project! This kind of stuff is a lot of fun! .......and if you get discouraged, and really need to have "the tone," you know where to look! Enjoy! __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

December 10th, 2008, 06:14 PM	#272 (permalink)
Teleconvict NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Age: 34 Posts: 6	Thanks for getting back on those issues, looks like I have some food for thought there! How did you get around the magnets touching cover issue with yours poking through to resemble the original screw heads? that must have been a nightmare? Anyway back to the catalogues, books and research for me. Thanks again.

December 14th, 2008, 07:43 PM	#274 (permalink)
Teleconvict NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Age: 34 Posts: 6	If anyone is still interested I am attempting to build a UK version of these pickups. I have ripped off a great deal of Telenator's work but I am going to do a few things differently due to, amongst other factors, availability of materials in the UK . I am going to find it hard to either cut myself or get cut the magnets. So I have been thinking of other ways of reducing the overall magnetic field and hopefully preserving as closely as poss the DC resistance / mag field ratio. I am going to try using alnico five and alnico 3 magnets in combination. If I use the fives for the bass strings and the 3's for the treble that should lend itself to a balanced tone that's tight in the bass and nice and singy at the top with out getting harsh and tinny. Basically its the same idea that SD uses in the nashville 'five two' tele neck pickup but using al 3 cause i can get hold of some fairly easily. I also have to contend with the conversion to metric and sadly, slightly skinnier wire (.061 mm as opposed to .063) which will mean less turns to get up to the right level of resistance (around 6300 per coil). This means that my bobbins will be minutely different form Telenator's and have slightly less turns on them with different magnetic characteristics all these differences will doubtless change the end result but hopefully they will have enough of the same characteristics as the originals to satisfy. With luck and about six to eight months hard work I will post some clips and you can all hear my results. Eventually.

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December 14th, 2008, 10:03 PM	#275 (permalink)
jivetrain Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: iowa Posts: 596 2 Photos	i wish you luck. i've got a set of telenator's and they're fantastic pickups, worth all of the effort if you ask me. then again i probably don't know half the effort involved... i like your idea of alnico 3 for the treble. it seems to have a sweeter sound than alnico 5 from what i've heard in the limited pickup testing i've done. telenator's wide ranges are a little on the bright side with 1 megs, though the treble is very nice and smooth. using alnico 3 may reign in the highs in a little, which could be nice. on another note, i'll find it really funny if telenator's project inspires others to make their own wide ranges like this rather than buying originals at auction. looks like the days of price gouging ebayers may be over...

December 15th, 2008, 09:25 AM	#276 (permalink)
Teleconvict NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Age: 34 Posts: 6	Yes it would be nice wouldn't it. But I have a feeling that this is going to prove more complex than I had imagined and may work out to be a deeply impractical way of getting what I am after. But I will hopefully learn something and get myself some good pickups!

January 20th, 2009, 09:18 AM	#277 (permalink)
yaduch NEW MEMBER! Join Date: May 2008 Location: France Age: 35 Posts: 2	Hello, I've searched the whole web for a WR replacement and/or a way to build one before reading this thread ! I found it really interesting. Congratulations to Telenator, his pickup seems to be very cool ! But reading that, I think I will forget my idea to build a WR from scratch, it seems to be a little harder than I thought. I'm the happy owner of a Japanese Telecaster Deluxe (74 reissue). This is a really good quality guitar (better than MIM reissues), but the pickups are quite differents than both originals and MIM reissues WR (I know it is ceramic, and it sounds like ceramic) Is anybody has compared, stutied, dissected, those japan version of the WR ?

January 20th, 2009, 09:32 AM	#278 (permalink)
Telenator VENDOR Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,622 5 Photos	In the process of building these pickups, we experimented with several different winding specs and magnet specs as well. The final formula we came up with yeilds a WRHB that truly mimics the original so closely it's scarey. And while that's great for people who totally dig "vintage spec" sounds, I too feel there are other ways of making this pickup sound even better than the original. But the point here wasn't to make a better sounding pickup. It was to make one that sounds as close as it possibly can to the original. In that regard, the project has been extremely successful. But when we start to toss around terms like "better sounding" or "smoother highs" or less "pronounced bass" we enter into a very ambiguous area where each guitar is going to react differently with the same identical pickups and each person will have a different opinion on the same exact thing. In reality, we cannot actually comment on a single pickup per se, we can only comment on how that pickup performs in our personal guitar. In the testing phase of this project we compared our pickups in two different guitars with several other original 70's Fenders until we were able to discern the actual pickup voice from the combined sound of guitar + pickup. This is the testing we based our final specs on. It was a lot more tedius than I ever thought it would be! Anyway, I'm really thrilled that you guys like them. __________________ Dogs have the right idea! www.telenator.com

January 21st, 2009, 05:25 AM	#279 (permalink)
yaduch NEW MEMBER! Join Date: May 2008 Location: France Age: 35 Posts: 2	Actually I don't really care about the exact "real" WR vintage sound, but I really like this idea of a humbucker made like a singlecoil ! My japanese reissue sounds good, but a little too much like a gibson. I'd like to "fenderize" it. Moreover ceramic sounds a little cold in my opinion.

March 21st, 2009, 01:35 PM	#280 (permalink)
l5jazzplayer NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Winchester, KY Age: 46 Posts: 6	Ordering WRHB pickups I'm new to the group. I began researching the Fender WRHB pickups before purchasing my new 2008 MIM Fender Telecaster Deluxe. I heard a friend's guitar, which was a 1978 Deluxe and it sounded fantastic. Used, abused, beat up, neglected and sounded fantastic. I had been in the market to buy a Tele but wasn't sure I wanted to drop the $2700 - $3000 on a vintage deluxe. I tried the Standard, the Custom, and finally the Deluxe. It had the best sound to me, however it didn't match the vintage tone that my friend's guitar had. I then researched the whole CuNiFe thing and came upon this thread. After spending two and a half hours reading the thread I was convinced that I needed to get two of the pickups made by Telenator for my new MIM Telecaster Deluxe. In reading the thread, I realized that he is ONLY going to make 30 of these pickups, as he is not a pickup manufacturer; it's just a fun side project for him. After contacting him, he told me that he has already sold 7 pair and only had 16 left. While $250 each is expensive to me and most of us, it is certainly a bargain compared to $600 each for vintage pickups parted out from vintage instruments. I sent off my two brand new '72 RI WRHB to get the retrofit. I didn't want to wait and possibly miss out. If you're one of those "wait and see" kind of people, you may want to go ahead and pull the trigger and get a set before they're all gone. I'm glad I did. I'm sure I won't regret my decision. And besides, if I don't like them, which is very doubtful, I can always install the factory WRHB that came with my guitar as Telenator returns them with the pickup order (without the covers of course). I have my order placed and he is working on them as I write this. I can't wait to get them.