Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

[robt57]

I was wondering, why the machined bobbins instead of Tele Bridge PUP Flat work for example?? You could build the lower bobbin height just by pressing the top and bottom closer together once you determine you pole height with the Alnico V poles...

[Telenator]

Good thinking Rob! Yes, we could do that. But the original WRHB uses molded bobbins and since that's the pickup I wanted to emulate, it seemed a foregone conclusion that mine would have one piece bobbins. The original is molded because the magnets are threaded and need something to thread in to. The thin plates of a Tele bridge p'up would not be enough and the twisting of the magnets when making adjustments would damage the winding. That's why the originals were made the way they were.

The other thing is, winding the coil in direct contact with the magnets tends to make the pickup sound brighter. We wanted to try and stick as close to the original design as possible.

I got your e-mail and I'm trying to find a couple of other people who I can relay this pickup through. Something like, you pop it in a guitar for a few days, take it out and then send it on to the next person who will have a few days to test it. Do you have a guitar that is ready right now? Complete except for pickups? I'll call you.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Good thinking Rob! Yes, we could do that. But the original WRHB uses molded bobbins and since that's the pickup I wanted to emulate

Being that you are not using the threaded poles/magnets, I find myself wondering what one with the Flatware and pressed pole might sound like A/B to yours. Easy enough to insulated the poles/magnets by even putting tape to keep the windings off the poles... This could/would make for a lot more cost effective solution I wager to say. But the tone has got to be there, I know. ;)

Do you have a guitar that is ready right now? Complete except for pickups? I'll call you.

Almost, I guess would be that answer. ;)
That one is about 1/2 a day away from play. I have a loaded p-90 guard and a P-90 guard cut out with the re-isse PUPs, MIM/Alnico in route [don't start that again ;)]. And a pre-finished neck with tuners already on it, which I did my neck pocket fitting before I sprayed. I ams waiting for the guard with the reissues to get here and I figured the Nitro to set up good. In tis heat that last coat that I did Friday should be fine in the next few days, if not already. I layed a 1/2 & 1/2 thinner coat on last, so it is already nice and shiny with out compound and wet sanding as you can see in the pic. So that is the state of it.

I was on carpet cleaning detail all weekend, the house and the pop up camper. ;)

[robt57]

I think the PUPs WRHBs here are MIM re-issues. I have posted this before in the amp forum, love that amp.

Any opinion if the Thinline here is MIM or CIJ [alnico/ceramic] ??

[robt57]

Well. maybe half a half a day.... ;)

[Strummer]

I'm very interested in this also. I've got a very recent ('07 or '08) MIM '72 Deluxe.

[robt57]

Mine was put into playable mode with the P-90s Thursday night, Nice cut vintage plate with Stainless Fender Saddles. Thing is kick aRs.

I also got the MIM re-issue WRHB set and the guard Friday in the mail.
So I'll be trying those next. As soon as I get tired of hearing these P-90, nasty cranky grindy things that they are.

Or may have to make another Tele...

I am leaning towards 2 customs, instead of one Deluxe with the set of MIM-RI-WRHBs. ;) [That was an acronym-nomic mouthful]

[Telenator]

I'll be back from the road tomorrow and whipping up another test pickup. We're going to try one with a full 6800 winds, short magnets and 1 meg pots to see if that nails the tone. Fingers crossed and hoping!

[mad dog]

This is a remarkably interesting thread. Thank you telenator and everybody else for a most informative (GAS PRODUCING) discussion. The only question unanswered for me is about those Rio Grande WR type pickups. Someone asked how they sound, and I didn't see any replies. Has anyone here tried them? Thanks.

[spankdplank]

Mad Dog--I have only tried the Rio Grande mini humbuckers, with 12 alnico slugs for poles, and not the WR sized pups. The minis are fantastic and are the best sounding mini I have ever heard.

[kjempe]

Originally Posted by spankdplank

Mad Dog--I have only tried the Rio Grande mini humbuckers, with 12 alnico slugs for poles, and not the WR sized pups. The minis are fantastic and are the best sounding mini I have ever heard.

They offer lots of pickups but I couldn`t find WR-sized humbuckers. What are they called at Rio Grande?

[Telenator]

Personally, I haven't seen anyone offering a full-size WRHB replacement. I have seen a number of standard humbucker size pickups though.

The thing that makes this project somewhat unique is that (once it's ready) you can get a superior pickup replacement for the MIM re-issues that look exactly like the original WRHB from the 70's. So far, our attempts to match the sound of the original have yielded a pickup that sounds terrific, but not totally vintage. This next attempt will either out us there, or make us reconsider where we need to be as far the overall sound goes.

We have a test pickup right now that sounds superb and would be an excellent replacement for the MIM Re-issues. If this next attempt doesn't get us real close to the sound of the original '72 WRHB, we'll probably settle on the version we have now. As you guys know, we're not pickup manufacturers. We're just enjoy cool projects and at some point have to say "enough!" All of our research and specs are listed here for anyone wishing to take this further, (assuming we don't nail it on this next try.)

Stay tuned. More to come!

[John Lipfert]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Personally, I haven't seen anyone offering a full-size WRHB replacement. I have seen a number of standard humbucker size pickups though.

Link to Rio Grande Big Bottoms

Sadly they have no pictures on the website currently. These are exposed coil humbuckers, no chrome cover available, and there's no mention if these are rod or bar magnet construction.

[Telenator]

From the Rio Grande website:

"Big Bottom '72 Humbucking Set Now there is a choice. Another first from Rio Grande! This fantastic replacement set for '72 and other large humbucking Tele's is the only one of it's kind available."

Only one of it's kind? NOT!

There's a new kid on the block and he looks just like his older brother from back in the 70's!

LOL! No worries here. We'll probably sell a whopping 10 sets or so and then interest will wane. No big deal. It's not my thing anyway. I'll bet those Rio's sound real sweet though!

[microphonic squeal]

Originally Posted by quartermiler45

I completely agree, as I've said before, the price is not unreasonable considering a single p/u goes for 2 or 3 times that amount. Def count me in with those 20 or 30 who have a solid interest. I was so excited when I read about this project nearing completion that I spent Sunday lunch telling my wife about it like a kid on Christmas. I'm sure she could've cared less but I already told her I'm saving up to get a set of these p/u's. Well maybe not TOLD, politely asked.

Count me in too!

[Strummer]

Originally Posted by microphonic squeal

Count me in too!

+1

The cost seems reasonable for what's being done. Plus with the way the Dollar to Euro exchange rate is, it's even better for me!

[JohnK24]

Bump to keep this thread going...man what a good read. I'd love to have a killer sounding 72 Thinline with these Telenator pups. If it nails Tab Benoit's original 72 thinline...that would be a holy grail to me.

[Telenator]

Man, you guys are getting me excited too! LOL! I just love a good project. I'm hoping to have the true vintage version ready by early next week for testing. I'll give a full report and hopefully get some sound clips up for ya'll.

[quartermiler45]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Man, you guys are getting me excited too! LOL! I just love a good project. I'm hoping to have the true vintage version ready by early next week for testing. I'll give a full report and hopefully get some sound clips up for ya'll.

Telenator,

What are you doing different on this set of p/u's to get you close to the "true vintage version?"

[quartermiler45]

I think this project continues to attract more and more interest as the days go by.

[robt57]

No opinions ??

Originally Posted by robt57

I think the PUPs WRHBs here are MIM re-issues. I have posted this before in the amp forum, love that amp.

Any opinion if the Thinline here is MIM or CIJ [alnico/ceramic] ??

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by quartermiler45

Telenator,

What are you doing different on this set of p/u's to get you close to the "true vintage version?"

The last version of the pickup had 6200/6000 winds on the coils and we cut the magnets much shorter to reduce the overall magnetic field strength. The original CuNiFe magnets were much weaker than the alnico V magnets we're using, so in an effort to get the same vibe happening we cut the alnico v magnets shorter in hope of simulating a weaker magnet. It sounds good with 500k pots and it's closer to the original. But we're now going to try 6800 winds like the original, use our short magnets, and 1 meg pots. The pickup will be seriously overwound for the magnet size but the brightness should come back via the 1 meg pots. The original WRHB have more "coil sound" than "magnet sound" if that makes sense, and that's what we're after.

I'll post a full review once I've had a chance to test it.

[jivetrain]

just a brief reminder of why this thread is so great.... there's a single wide range on ebay now selling for $800. granted it's because it has the original box, but is anyone willing to pay hundreds more for a useless old piece of cardboard.... seems to me the seller is asking a bit much, as everyone selling that pickup has been lately. look here if you want to see

[Telenator]

I'm hosting a jam here in Connecticut on August 30th and will have my Tele '72 re-issue there loaded with the latest vintage spec pickups for anyone to try.

[quartermiler45]

Originally Posted by Telenator

I'm hosting a jam here in Connecticut on August 30th and will have my Tele '72 re-issue there loaded with the latest vintage spec pickups for anyone to try.

Have you been able to test the latest spec p/u's yet? JW

Main I wish I lived closer to Connecticut!

[Telenator]

I haven't tested them yet. I have 6 gigs coming up next week, two of them I'm subbing so there's a lot of prep work, I'm hosting a jam and preparing for a cross country motorcycle ride all at the same time. Oh, I also started a scratch built Gibson L6-S project! It's been a little busy.

I should have a vintage spec pickup report by the middle of next week. This will be the version with 6800 winds, shortened magnets and 1 meg pots. If all goes well I'll be gigging with the guitar lat next week!

[Strummer]

I can't wait to hear some recordings of them. I wish I was in Conneticut also.

[TheBear]

To me it looks like the pole screws are in the wrong place on these pickups. Wouldn't you want the heavier string poles to be closer to the bridge to keep them from muddying and the lighter string poles to be closer to the neck so that they catch more resonance?

[varakeef]

Originally Posted by TheBear

To me it looks like the pole screws are in the wrong place on these pickups. Wouldn't you want the heavier string poles to be closer to the bridge to keep them from muddying and the lighter string poles to be closer to the neck so that they catch more resonance?

But that's the way they are originally.

[jivetrain]

Originally Posted by varakeef

But that's the way they are originally.

i think he's questioning seth lover's design, not telenator's. i've wondered why the split-pole cover was oriented the way it was as well. i guess that even though the bass is slightly muddier at the edge of the pickup farther to the bridge, it's also deeper and more open sounding to my ears.

[TheBear]

Originally Posted by varakeef

But that's the way they are originally.

Yeah, I know. I just have thought that it always seemed backwards.

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by TheBear

Yeah, I know. I just have thought that it always seemed backwards.

I agree and the temptation to reverse the pickup was there but then there's the whole problem of having new covers manufactured and that gets very expensive.

A few more days and we'll know just what these are going to sound like. For what it's worth, the versions we have made so far have an excellent bass sound. Very tight and full without being muddy or boomey. Of course, anyone looking for an original spec pickup is going to be looking for that boominess even though it detracts from the pickup over all. If it were up to me, I'd say we have an excellent pickup right now that smokes the MIM re-issue and actually works better than the original but, many people won't like it because it doesn't sound exactly like the original, (even though the original doesn't sound as good as the current spec we have) Just an opinion.

[quartermiler45]

Originally Posted by Telenator

I agree and the temptation to reverse the pickup was there but then there's the whole problem of having new covers manufactured and that gets very expensive.

A few more days and we'll know just what these are going to sound like. For what it's worth, the versions we have made so far have an excellent bass sound. Very tight and full without being muddy or boomey. Of course, anyone looking for an original spec pickup is going to be looking for that boominess even though it detracts from the pickup over all. If it were up to me, I'd say we have an excellent pickup right now that smokes the MIM re-issue and actually works better than the original but, many people won't like it because it doesn't sound exactly like the original, (even though the original doesn't sound as good as the current spec we have) Just an opinion.

And then you have people like me who have never even heard the original except on YouTube, so your current specs would prob sound like tonal heaven with me only being able to compare it to my RI p/u.

[superbadj]

IF you're still looking for people to test the PU, let me know. I have a '72 Tele Custom reissue that I'd love to use as a testbed.

[jivetrain]

Originally Posted by TheBear

Yeah, I know. I just have thought that it always seemed backwards.

maybe seth lover was trying to replicate the slant of the tele bridge pickup by putting the bass end further from the bridge and the treble end closer.

[varakeef]

Originally Posted by TheBear

Wouldn't you want the heavier string poles to be closer to the bridge to keep them from muddying and the lighter string poles to be closer to the neck so that they catch more resonance?

No I wouldn't. WRHB isn't muddy and it's resonant enough. It's always possible to make a great product worse by trying to make it better. Like tinny or too resonant.

[Telenator]

So much of this depends on what guitar you're putting these in. In some guitars they will be muddy sounding, while in other guitars they will be snappy and bright. People need to realize this when trying pickups. In my opinion pickups tell you more about the way your guitar sounds than they do about what a given pickup sounds like.

A great set of pickups will often make a guitar sound worse because the tonal spectrum of the pickup is not compatible with the wood. So what sometimes ends up happening is, the pickup amplifies all the tones the owner was complaining about in the first place and the owner thinks the pickup sucks. It happens.

I fully expect a lot of people to truly dig the sound of these new WRHB retro-fit pickups. But I also expect some people will find that they're not happy at all with the sound. That's just the nature of the "guitar/pickup" relationship and the way each individual perceives tone.

[Tarbender]

I just finished reading this thread start to finish for the second time. Many thanks Telenator for all your hard work and tenacious attitude to get this pickup to sound right. I really do hope you make this pickup available to some of us less technically skilled aficionados because as much as I love my ’72 RI, I know the WRHB could sound better.

Before I stumbled upon this thread I had placed an order with Rio Grande for their ’72 Tall Boy, and it should arrive sometime next week. I’ll let everyone know what it sounds like once I get it installed and have a chance to play it for a while. The disappointing thing about the Rio Grande is that it looks like a replacement (which it is) without the chrome cover, which I find cosmetically displeasing.

So if you have 20 – 30 people interested in buying your incarnation of the WRHB, count me in as number 31. Fantastic thread!

[Telenator]

Cool man! #31 it is!

I'm hoping to have the new vintage spec pickup tested this week. I'm heading out for two weeks on a cross country motorcycle ride and will be back around September 12th so, after saturday the 30th, I'll be pretty scarce around these parts. I've been insanely busy lately gigging, building a Gibson style L6-S and preparing for the cross country ride. Oh, and getting the vintage spec pickup together! We're working on it!

[robt57]

Originally Posted by Telenator

I'm heading out for two weeks on a cross country motorcycle ride and will be back around September 12th so, after saturday the 30th,

Mr. Green, as in green with envy!!

Keep the rubber side down and stay safe!

Robt