Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

[jivetrain]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Thanks man!

I'm not sure this will be much less expensive than buying an original though. The way it looks right now, I'd have to charge $200 to $250 to retro-fit YOUR pickup! That ain't cheap!

I'm not even sure I'm going to get involved in all that.

the cost is in no way unreasonable; the way i see it is that you're restoring the price of a real wide range humbucker back to what it used to be before the massive inflation that's taken place over the last few years. the prices you estimated are exactly what the originals typically went for on ebay a few years ago when the prices were sane, so to get a faithful reproduction of that design in new condition, for the same price the old beaten up pickups sold for, is a pretty fair deal. it's no small amount of money, but considering that the originals are now climbing towards $600 each, it's still a good value.

i strongly encourage you to follow through with your plan, not just because i want one of your pickups, but because it would be a really interesting experiment to see just how many people line up to get one. there's an obviously high demand for a design like yours, but you'll have to rely on word of mouth alone in order to supply it, so there's no telling what will happen. if your pickup sounds the way you say it does, i think it'll catch on pretty well.

incidentally, just how many of these do you think you'd be comfortably able to produce for the time being?

[Telenator]

Well jivetrain, I'm not really considering going into the pickup business. I have posted this stuff around the guitar forums and there seems to be a growing interest, (maybe more than I bargained for!), but it really was my intention to just make these for my own personal project and because someone said, "it can't be done." Nothing gets me fired up quicker than a challange like that! LOL! You've seen my Rickenrockers? It's a good thing.

Ultimately, there are probably 20 or 30 people out there who have a solid interest in actually sending me their MIM pickups for a retro-fit so, I'm not going to quit my day job! LOL! It's just a project I'm doing that my guitar tech friend has also taken an interest in and is helping me. If we help a few other people in getting a superior replacement for some of those MIM re-issues, then that's a good thing at the end of the day.

The one area where this might take off a little is with all the pro guitar builders who now might be able to offer a Telecaster with a killer set of wide range humbuckers. Right now, the only choices are Vintage, or Re-issue. There are some pickup makers out there who make excellent versions of the wide range humbucker but they don't "look" like a wide range humbucker. I think that is a BIG advantage with the retro-fit process I'm doing.

Anyway, there I go dreaming again. There will be some of these around but going into actual production on this is probably not going to happen. If the demand is there, I'll certainly consider it but the reality is, there may be a small bubble of interest in this and then like most other things it will fade.

Lets get that great tone while we can!

[quartermiler45]

I completely agree, as I've said before, the price is not unreasonable considering a single p/u goes for 2 or 3 times that amount. Def count me in with those 20 or 30 who have a solid interest. I was so excited when I read about this project nearing completion that I spent Sunday lunch telling my wife about it like a kid on Christmas. I'm sure she could've cared less but I already told her I'm saving up to get a set of these p/u's. Well maybe not TOLD, politely asked.

[Telenator]

LOL q45! I'm pretty excited too! I was actually shaking a little when I was about to compare mine to an original. It was a little scarey. The rewind should get us a lot closer to the sound of the original. Even if we can't absolutely nail the tone of the original, these pickups will be very close, and heads above the MIM's they started out as!

[quartermiler45]

Just to show why Telenators prices are within reason look at how much a single orginal p/u's are going for on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Fender-Tele...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Fender-Tele...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Fender-Tele...QQcmdZViewItem

[Telenator]

Guys, I wish I could just give you all a bunch of these and share the wealth. But the bobbins are in such small quantity that they're hand machined, one at a time from delrin, a super high quality plastic that machines like brass and has excellent dimensional stability. The magnets aren't too terribly expensive but, it takes hours to chuck them up one at a time to grind them round like a screw head, and them clamp them in a vice one at a time to hand cut the faux screw slot. Then my good friend and guitar tech scatter-winds each coil by hand, sets the magnet stagger, charges the magnets and assembles the pickups one at a time. Then they get wax potted to prevent feedback at high volumes. It's a fairly expensive, time consuming process. That's why the price is where it's at. I am in no way trying to charge what the market will bear. It wasn't really my intention to start selling these things but as interest grew, it's the only way we're gonna get a few of these out there. I have fully disclosed all of my methods, winding specs, and a complete drawing (coming soon) of my bobbin design so that others may benefit and use this information to build these themselves should they desire to. Honestly, I won't be retiring from selling a few of these pickups! It's just a cool project that keeps off the streets and keeps my wife mad at me most of the time, (as it should be), while I obsess over my guitar fetishes.

[quartermiler45]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Guys, I wish I could just give you all a bunch of these and share the wealth. But the bobbins are in such small quantity that they're hand machined, one at a time from delrin, a super high quality plastic that machines like brass and has excellent dimensional stability. The magnets aren't too terribly expensive but, it takes hours to chuck them up one at a time to grind them round like a screw head, and them clamp them in a vice one at a time to hand cut the faux screw slot. Then my good friend and guitar tech scatter-winds each coil by hand, sets the magnet stagger, charges the magnets and assembles the pickups one at a time. Then they get wax potted to prevent feedback at high volumes. It's a fairly expensive, time consuming process. That's why the price is where it's at. I am in no way trying to charge what the market will bear. It wasn't really my intention to start selling these things but as interest grew, it's the only way we're gonna get a few of these out there. I have fully disclosed all of my methods, winding specs, and a complete drawing (coming soon) of my bobbin design so that others may benefit and use this information to build these themselves should they desire to. Honestly, I won't be retiring from selling a few of these pickups! It's just a cool project that keeps off the streets and keeps my wife mad at me most of the time, (as it should be), while I obsess over my guitar fetishes.

I hope you don't think I was saying your prices were ridiculous. I was trying to show how fair and reasonable your prices are. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and hardwork with us!

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by quartermiler45

I hope you don't think I was saying your prices were ridiculous. I was trying to show how fair and reasonable your prices are. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and hardwork with us!

No. It's all good. I totally appreciate your perspective. I guess I'm just a little skittish that people might think I was trying to charge alot of money because of what the vintage pickups cost these days. This whole experience has been very positive so far and I just wanted to try and keep it that way. OK, I admit it. I'm a little too sensitive about these things at times, but, well, it is the internet and we all know how the best of intentions can blow up in your face sometimes. Thank you for participating in this thread and bringing the good vibes along with you.

[jivetrain]

i think we all understand why your prices were set at the level they were, it was obvious from the photos you posted that these pickups are high quality in construction. i really was impressed by how good they looked, very professional, and your account confirms that they're just as good on the inside as well. there's no argument about whether your price is justified; the only reason the subject of costs has come up in the last few posts is that people are appreciating the value of your design compared to the originals. in addition to giving a few people a better pickup, another important service you'd be providing to the members of these various boards is saving them hundreds of dollars by offering an alternative to the high prices on ebay. that's pretty much all that we've been saying, i hope it wasn't misinterpreted as something bad.

i notice you seem to be a little reluctant to guarantee a pickup to everyone who lines up asking, which is also understandable since you probably won't be able to make enough to go around. i hope you don't feel like we're pressuring you into it any; it is your choice how many of these to make, or whether you make any at all. still, i hope you'll be able to retro fit at least enough pickups for those of us who are readily able to send in our pickups and pay for the service... although considering that we haven't even heard them yet, it's probably too early to be getting zealous anyway...

as a side note, i really can't wait to hear what they sound like, the curiosity is driving me mad.

[Telenator]

You guys are great. It's all good. I'm really thrilled with the enthusiasm of everyone here and with the progress of this project.

I have the newest version of the pickup is installed and it sounds really sweet! It's wound 4% hotter than the first one in an effort to bring out the mids and fatten up the highs a bit.

The interesting thing is, the extra winds seem to have taken the sound slightly further away from an original WRHB, but the sound is so good, I'm not sure which way to go now. Part of the concern is that my '72 Re-issue Tele is a bit bright and slightly void in the mids so I have a fairly limitted range of testing. When I play the guitar and switch back and forth between my pickup and the MIM re-issue, the MIM sounds very weak and void of character. I'll be testing this again tomorrow against an original 74 Tele Deluxe. Thinlines and Deluxes are very different but the pickup voice is still fairly obvious. Once I've tested that and approve, I'll get a couple of these out there for others to try before settling on the final version.

I might be able to throw a quick sound clip together tomorrow. I like this new version a lot. The previous one had the lows of the original nailed but the highs just weren't as saturated. The new one has better saturation in the mids and highs but the character of the bass has changed. It's still tight and sweet, but much more complex now than the originals. In the end, it may not sound exactly like an original, but it is worlds ahead of the MIM Re-issues, and in my opinion, right up there in "quality of tone" with the originals.

[gibsonjunkie]

I'll get to hear them first!

Bob, when you stop by to pick up your new amp tomorrow we can try and record a couple clips!

[Telenator]

YOWZA! It really does exist for $399 delivered! You da man Nick. I can't thank you enough for ordering it on your card while I was out in the field. I would have missed it if you hadn't called. What a guy!

[gibsonjunkie]

Originally Posted by Telenator

YOWZA! It really does exist for $399 delivered! You da man Nick. I can't thank you enough for ordering it on your card while I was out in the field. I would have missed it if you hadn't called. What a guy!

Houston, we have a problem - I know the box felt light when I put it in the car, but I never expected this...



Well, I guess there's no reason for you to come up tomorrow, is there?

[Telenator]

Well guys, here's what we've got.

I tested the re-wound pickup over the past few days and it smokes! It really sounds awesome. But I have two problems.
1) Although this pickup sounds terrific, totally blows away the MIM Re-issue, and has a unique sound of it's own, the latest version sounds less like the original.

2) I have also found some new, yet conflicting information about the original pickup. I have read that the original bobbins have 5000 winds each, and then I have read elsewhere that they have 6800 winds each.

Now, 6800 winds certainly explains the 10.6k reading, and it also explains the sound of the original pickup being saturated the way it is. But 6800 winds with alnico v magnets is not really a good thing. If I were to do a pickup with 6800 winds per coil and alnico v magnets, it would be VERY LOUD and over saturated so, we're going try something a little different.

The next incarnation of this thing will have about 6400 winds and we're going to cut about 3/16" off the magnet's length to reduce the overall magnetic strength of the pickup. The original CuNiFe magnets are not very strong. That may be the reason there is a thin bar magnet under the bobbins and 10.6k worth of windings. The new version with the cut magnets should get much closer to the sound of the original. I was going to post sound clips of the current pickup we have but will wait a while because I don't want to confuse the issue with the goal here.

We intend to continue on this path in getting the pickup to sound like the original. In the meantime, the current version absolutely sings! I played it on a gig last night and was extremely pleased. Very unique, cool sound. The closest thing I could call it is a "Fender Les Paul." The best attributes of both! It's sounds like an extended range P90, or the fattest single coil, chimiest humbucker you ever heard. It has the smooth highs of a humbucker with the tighter lows of a P90 and none of the darkness often heard in humbuckers. I'll put this pickup aside for future use!

Anyway, that's the story as it stands right now. We have an awesome pickup that doesn't sound close enough to the original for me. But we're getting there. I just love a good project!

[Newfie_J.]

I am sure there are alot of Wide Range fans who would love to have a choice of a stock Telenator WR or the (((((!!!!new and improved!!!!)))) Telenator WR special. Choice is good. But of course that means more work.
Amazing project. Good Luck.

[quartermiler45]

Telenator,

I'm curious to know if your next generation of p/u's don't achieve the sound you desire will you go back to the a previous generation and settle on that one? I'm just curious. Also it really impresses me how committed to this project you are.

[spankdplank]

Telenator--I have taken my cunife pole pieces out of my old WR and they seem to have less magnetic pull than an alnico V rod magnet. This softer magnetic field would explain why a pickup with a 10.5 dc resistance doesn't sound like a hot or overwound pickup. Perhaps if you went with the higher wind per coil, but made your pole pieces from alnico II or III, or slightly demagnetized your alnico V poles, you would have a level of magnetism closer to cunife, and the higher winding would get you closer to the WR sound. Great job and thanks for the thread.

[Telenator]

Thanks for your interest guys.

Yes, if this next generation of "weak magnet/hotter wind" doesn't work out the way I'd like, then yeah, we will go back to the pickup we have. It toally smokes the MIM Re-issues, and in some ways I strongly prefer it to the original WRHB. The original does have a real, sweet, juicy, saturated sound to it and I think we're on the right track. I have more invested in this now than I care to discuss, (don't tell my wife), but that's the way us guitar folks are. We gotta keep trying new stuff and hopefully find something that is not only HUGE sounding, but unique at the same time. A twisted lot we are!

spankdplank, that is exactly the direction we're going. The formula is finding the right "magnet/wind ratio." I'm not sure we're quite sophisticated enough to partially de-gauss alnico v magnets, and alnico II and III are not too easy to come by. Besides, alnico v has a brighter sound which will help with the darksound often associated with over-wound coils. This has turned into a fascinating project that is forcing me to learn things I never knew before. There are people in the biz with far more knowledge than I will ever have in pickups and I'm sure they have most of this stuff figured out already, but I think the key thing here is, these new pickups "look" right. That's important to a lot of people! It was important enough to me to start this project!

[gibsonjunkie]

Sounded pretty darn good to me, so far Bob. Keep it up - you'll find "the Grail".

[jivetrain]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Thanks for your interest guys.

Yes, if this next generation of "weak magnet/hotter wind" doesn't work out the way I'd like, then yeah, we will go back to the pickup we have.

i'm glad that sound quality is your highest priority, rather than vintage accuracy. it's necessary to accept that you'll probably never get the pickup sounding exactly the same as the originals while using alnico, so it's not worth sacrificing any of the good traits your pickup has now for the sake of making it closer to the original. even if it's more similar to the original, if that new design winds up compromising any good qualities of the pickup, i say ditch it. you're already well aware of this, i just wanted to say i support the notion.

from what you say the pickup must be fairly close to the originals already, not exactly there, but it's got to be far more similar than any other pickup out there. i think that's good enough; the important thing is that it sounds both great and unique at once, which is the reason the originals are considered great pickups in the first place. also, the idea that your pickups may actually surpass the originals is really exciting too; in what ways do you prefer yours?

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by jivetrain

also, the idea that your pickups may actually surpass the originals is really exciting too; in what ways do you prefer yours?

When I play the originals, I'm hearing a tonally saturated pickup that can be somewhat equated to, playing your guitar with the bass, midrange and treble controls turned all the way up on your amp. It's a sweet sort of "thick" sound that is a bit over saturated to the point of possibly not sitting well in a live band mix. As a solo instrument sound, I think the originals are very good.

The area where I feel mine has a real advantage is that the tonal saturation seems to be very light on the low strings and gets stronger as you move to the thinner strings. This allows the low end to be very present and aggressive without being flabby or dark. The low end is nice and focused. Not too tight like a vintage Strat pickup, but you definitely know you're listening to a humbucker.

The highs have a real nice biting quality that never gets thin. It's both smooth, and aggressive at the same time and the pickup overall is very sensitive to touch dynamics.

I'm actually afraid of losing the BIG CLARITY this pickup now has when I try the new design. I'll try it out real soon and if it sounds right I'll get a sound clip up here. Fingers crossed.

[jivetrain]

Originally Posted by Telenator

the tonal saturation seems to be very light on the low strings and gets stronger as you move to the thinner strings. This allows the low end to be very present and aggressive without being flabby or dark.

i think i know just what you mean. i had tried to get a similar balance from my reissues by lowering the hidden poles on the bass side in order to clear the low end up while keeping the poles on the treble side at normal heights to keep the mids and treble full. it technically worked, but although the bass was cleared it was low in volume and too weak to really be satisfying. it's so frustrating to get the right balance on that pickup...

the more you talk about your pickup the more it sounds like what i've been trying at with the reissues but failing to get. they'd be worth the price to me just for the sake of no longer having to fiddle with the polepieces every time i play.

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by jivetrain

. they'd be worth the price to me just for the sake of no longer having to fiddle with the polepieces every time i play.

LOL! You fool with the polepieces on mine! If people actually do like these and there ends up being a few aorund, I know eventually someone will try and turn my fake screws and chip the magnet rod. It's bound to happen. Even if I engraved "DO NOT TURN SCREWS" in the chorome cover, someone would just have to try any way.

I say with a ll confidence that this pickup blows away the MIM Re-issue. I can't say that with the same certainty about the originals because they're different sounds and totally subject to opinions.

[jivetrain]

i find myself wondering now what the poles would look like without the slot in the top. i know you want the pickups to look identical to real WRH but i think cosmetically the cover is the only important part of the look. you could save yourself the work of slotting them and not have to worry about bufoons trying to turn them, it may even look cool.

[Telenator]

Well, during the process of making the bobbins and test fitting all the parts, I did look at it without having slotted the magnets and honestly, it does look a lot better with the faux screws in there. Hopefully, if some of these do find their way out into the general populus, people will be happy enough with them that they won't sell them to an unsuspecting screw turner!

[Telenator]

I was just talking with someone who claims that the threaded magnets in the original WRHB have a unique polarity pattern. I seem to remember this from years ago, but can't verify it.

He said that of the 6 magnets per coil, 3 of them are installed North/South while the other 3 are installed South/North. I have an original coil here that someone very generously loaned to me for reasearch purposes but, 4 of the magnets are installed one way and two are reversed so, I have no way of knowing the pickup's actual heritage.

If anyone knows, or can verify the magnet polarity, it would be very helpful. We have the new set of "cut" magnets and the new coils will be wound over the next day or two. It would be good to know if we could install the magnets with this unique polarity pattern when we're ready to assemble the latest version of this pickup.

Any help would be appreciated.

[jivetrain]

i remembered reading about the orientations here on the forums. i did some digging and found the post:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/just-pick...r-magnets.html

you should message panamajo and ask specifically which poles are oriented which way.

[Telenator]

Thank you so much! I just sent him an e-mail.

[winny pooh]

Telenator, this is one of my favourite threads going and its always really enjoyable to see a fellow TDPRI'er go the mad scientist route en route to tonal bliss. Its especially interesting as I have a set of originals that I love like a newborn and have always wondered why the heck Fender had to do such a poor job on the re-issues haha. Your PM box is going to be like a zoo when all this is over!

[Telenator]

I must admit, I never expected there to be so much interest in this. My past projects have all been a little unusual though so, I guess this is normal for me. Now, if I could just figure out a way to legally sell my Rickenrockers! People who love Ric 360's but want modern features on them, have offered me obscene money for those guitars but, as I've said before, I don't sell the guitars I build.

Perhaps the coolest thing about this latest project is the amount of support and help everyone here has offered. I love a strong sense of community and I love getting behind a good project. It's real nice to see the good side of people and to come together on a worthwhile endeavor. We're getting there!

[tpaul]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Thank you so much! I just sent him an e-mail.

Hey, Telenator, when you get the answer on the magnetic pole orientation, please post it. I don't have an original WR pickup YET, but I'm interested for future reference. This is the kind of information that will be invaluable for lots of folks down the line.

Thanks!

[Telenator]

You got it. Hopefully this thread will turn into a valuable resource for people intersted in these pickups. I know I'm learning a lot from it!

[spankdplank]

I had that magnetic pole orientation problem on and old WR I bought on Ebay years ago, until I moved a couple of the pole screws around. I think you are right that each coil has the north/south orientation split 50/50, but I don't recall with certainty.

[Telenator]

OK, I just got an e-mail from someone who has also confirmed that 3 magnets are "North up" and 3 are "South up" on the same coil.

Fortunately someone mailed me an original pickup with only one coil so we'll at least be able to check the polarity of the magnets. We have a new set of bobbins wound that are within 8 or 9% of the originals. We didn't want to wind it as hot as an original because our magnets, (even though we cut a good 3/16" off the length) are stronger than the original. The pickup might just be too hot and mushy sounding if we used all those winds. Give it a couple days and we'll have one working.

[panamajo]

So, I get this email yesterday asking some questions about original Seth Lover Wide Range pups. It was Telenator. Wow, it's been many, many moons since I finished my 76 tele deluxe restoration. My curiosity led me back to the forum, and I just spent 2 hours of pure enjoyment reading this thread. Better than most novels I've read over the past few years (all one of them) Ha!

Just to be certain with the polarity issue, there are 2 variables here--don't confuse magnetic north/south and screw/pole head and tail. Let's define the screw/pole "head" as the slotted end, and the "tail as the non-slotted end. Then use N as the north magnetic pole and S as the ..... well you get it.

And let's orient the pup on the guitar. Both my vintage SLWR pups are the same; the "fender" logo on the pup cover can be read as the guitar rests in a stand (see avatar). In this orientation, each pups neck-side coil has 3 poles heads-up with slots showing on the bass strings; E, A, D. And 3 poles tails up (but unseen under the cover) on the treble strings G, B, E. The bridge-side coil on both pups have the opposite arrangement; heads-up on the treble strings G, B, E. And tails-up unseen under the cover on the bass side E, A, D. (note, the tails up poles screw in from the bottom of the pup)

So, that dissertation takes care of the physical orientation variable. I hope that is not too confusing. I'd draw a picture but I'm too lazy.

Now for the magnetic orientation. Using a stewmac magnetic polarity tester all six screws on each coil are the same. In fact, this has got to be, all poles on the same coil have to have the same polarity orientation or they will cancel the signal. The tester results on my 76 pups are that all six poles on the neck side coil are South "up" and all 6 screw/poles on the bridge-side coil are North up. This means that sets of 3 screws/poles on each coil are oppositely polarized. In order to get a heads-up screw to have the same polarity as a tails-up screw on the same coil, they will have to be oppositely magnetized.

Gee, that's complicated. But I hope it helps. If a picture is needed, then I can try that.

Go Telenator and everyone else who have contributed to this wonderful story.

[Telenator]

panamajo, thank you for a most informative contribution. And thank you for returning my e-mail. This thread is rapidly becoming one of the most complete sources of information on these pickups and is helping to de-mystify some of the past ideas where they're concerned.

In our latest attemp to "nail the tone" of the original, we're looking at magnet gaussing/ field strength.

Since the original pickups are wound 6800 winds per coil, (not 5000, as I had originally read), and the CuNiFe magnets are gaussed at around 18, we're looking at the ratio of winding vs magnet strength.

Since we're using alnico v magnets (gauss strength 25), we are now experimenting with cutting the magnets shorter, by 1/8" to reduce the overall magnetic influence over the coil, (like CuNiFe) and we're reducing the number of winds by 9% to get closer to the magnet/winding ratio of the original.

The CuNiFe magnets have approximately 28% less magnetic strength than the alnico v magnets, so we're attempting to mimic this by cutting our alnico v magnets shorter to further reduce the strength of the magnetic field.

Our coils being wound 9% smaller than the originals, combined with our modified magnets should get us much closer to the sound of the original, (in theory), by taking this approach.

So, here's a little whacky math:

By cutting 1/8" off the alnico v magnets, we reduce the overall field strength by 18%

By winding the coils 9% less than the originals, we reduce the DC resistance from 10.6k to about 9.5k.

The original WRHB is 18 gauss/10.6k ohm

Ours is (effective field strength) equal to 20.5 gauss/9.5k ohm

This is much closer to the ratio of the original than our current pickup. Now, as I've said before, we're not engineers or pickup manufacturers. We're just a couple of well skilled guys taking our best shot at recreating the tone of the original WRHB with the materials most readily available to us. If it works, we'll be thrilled! If it doesn't, we still have a killer sounding pickup that sounds waaaaaaaaaaay better than the MIM Re-issue and will be great for some of my guitar projects. Maybe I'll build another Rickenrocker with WRHB's just to get the Ric guys all fired up and barfing in the aisles! LOL! It would look pretty heinous.

Stay tuned, I'm hoping to test this new pickup in another day or two.

[Telenator]

I took the guitar around to a few music stores yesterday to get some impressions. The MIM Re-issue pickup sounds like a toy compared to the latest version we have. The store owners were very positive after hearing and playing the guitar.

The crazy thing is, the new version sounds much closer to the original but, the previous pickup we just tested sounded so frickin' good we're debating what our next move will be. It exhibits tones and dynamic response just not found in the original WRHB.

I'm a little dazed by this because I started out just trying to re-create a vintage pickup for my project guitar. I have enlisted the help of several skilled friends who dig projects as much as I do, and we now have a pickup (the previous version) that we're all very satisfied with. Persuing this into the realm of "nailing that vintage tone" is starting make us think like business people and that's not what this is really all about.

I'll be on assignment in South Dakota next week, returning on 8/12 so I won't be around for a few days. When I return, we're going to discuss our next move.

As it stands, we have an excellent pickup that would make a superior replacement for any MIM Re-issue guitar. It will also be an excellent choice for those building their own project guitars who want a WRHB with the look and sound os a great "Fender-ish" humbucker. The question now is, "Do we continue on the quest to re-create the sound of the original vintage WRHB?"

We'll have a better idea in a week or two.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate if some of you could suggest a member here, or someone step forward, that has a guitar routed for this size pickup, who could give it a fair an honest evaluation. I'd be interested in hearing from people who are established in the music business in one form or another, like guys who are gigging or recording or building custom guitars who have the experience and would be interested in giving this a serious evaluation. The reason I'm being a little specific is because we'll all gain the most by reading the opinions of someone who has the experience to evalute something like this and is established in the business. If they love it, we all gain. If they hate it, (impossible! ), I'll take my lumps and enjoy the few sets I have in my own guitars.

I have a prototype neck pickup (previous version) that I can loan out for un-biased testing. I would strongly prefer someone in the lower 48 U.S. States for ease of shipping and speed of return. I only have one right now for testing so I'd like to get it out to a few people in a few weeks time.

Tap me a line and we'll talk. Bob

[jivetrain]

damn. i'd be willing to jump on your offer and test the pickup, but there's so many more experienced and knowledgeable people here who should have it first. i just hope whoever winds up accepting it has enough free time to really thoroughly evaluate it and give a lengthy review.

it's a shame you'll have to wait a few weeks before sending the pickup, it'd be great to send it beforehand so we'd have something to read about in here while you're away, but it'll probably be too hard to arrange. if you had the time, you could also post some sound clips of the two incarnations of the pickup so we can judge the differences and see what each is like. with any luck, we may even settle on which one we like better by the time you get back (joke).

[Telenator]

Well, there's no reason I couldn't send it out on Monday on my way to the airport. I'll probably have the first person who tries it, send on to the next person and so on.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by Telenator

In the meantime, I'd appreciate if some of you could suggest a member here, or someone step forward, that has a guitar routed for this size pickup, who could give it a fair an honest evaluation. I'd be interested in hearing from people who are established in the music business in one form or another, like guys who are gigging or recording or building custom guitars who have the experience and would be interested in giving this a serious evaluation.

Just got this baby her last coat of paint, more of the pine madness of late over here.

I have a pair of the re-issue in route, well on the way, they won't be in 'route' [ahem] till I get them. Not sure I fill much of your criteria otherwise as far as testing.

The thread has interested me, as I plan to pull some winds off one of the coils from each re-isssue PUPs and swap magnets etc. I was shooting for sparkle and PAF tone personally.

But if I can help somehow, shout.

Oh, I also have 2 thin line bodies glued up, unfinished including neck and PUP Routes. Not decided a direction on as of yet. FWIW