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| Just Pickups Forum for discussing guitar pickups. |
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#43 (permalink) |
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TDPRI Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alton Iowa USA
Age: 51
Posts: 77
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what is this plate? a spacer of some sort? it is ferrous
my best measurement shows approx .41 center to center pole spacing across the bobbin. The square holes in the bobbins are .165" square. The center to center pole spacing between the bobbins is .745" |
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#44 (permalink) |
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Tele-Meister
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Wow! A man willing to disassemble a $300 pickup in the name of science. Thanks for the great pics ezrydr!
__________________
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain |
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#46 (permalink) |
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Poster Extraordinaire
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Those are the CuNiFe magnetic polepieces, right?
Are the female threads those screw into, integral to the bobbins? It looks that way. Are those bobbins plastic? I find it a bit of a surprise the threads on the polepieces are metric, given the design was by Seth Lover, presumably in the US and around 1971. Wonder why Fender had them made metric instead of SAE, maybe the threading work was done offshore? It's a bit difficult read for my old eyes, but there's a factory blueprint as well as a picture of the pickup with the cover off, on page 61 of Duchossoir's The Fender Telecaster. There's also some text describing its construction and the rationale for CuNiFe vs. AlNiCo on page 62. I noticed the pickup in the Duchossoir book and one ezrydr pictured have white bobbins, but the one in the picture GUITARmole posted has black bobbins. The color shouldn't have any bearing on the performance of the pickup, just a bit of trivia. |
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#47 (permalink) | |
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Poster Extraordinaire
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The narrative from Duchossoir's book on page 62:
Quote:
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#48 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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Wow Yegbert, thanks for the info! I'll look that up right away. I should have most of this info over to my machinist buddy this week and get a quote on how much it will cost to make the parts. Ideally, he'll just say, "go ahead and make them yourself" and I'll use his milling machine to knock out 10 sets of everything but, we'll see. Fortunately, he plays guitar too so he might have a little more incentive to help.
Thank you! Everyone! for all your help and genrous offering of information! |
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#49 (permalink) |
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TDPRI Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alton Iowa USA
Age: 51
Posts: 77
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yegbert - great info. While I don't know much about this topic it has certainly sparked my interest since I am lucky enough to have a couple of these pickups.
"Are the female threads those screw into, integral to the bobbins? It looks that way. Are those bobbins plastic?" plastic for sure - possibly a nylon. They are threaded directly to accept the pole pieces. "I find it a bit of a surprise the threads on the polepieces are metric" me too! I thought they would be 1/4-20 or such. I am glad I had a thread gauge as I would never have guessed metric. Do you think the thread pitch is critical to reproducing the pups? I would sure like to find some nice shiny new covers for mine as the chrome has been corroded badly on my original covers. (We do like SHINY NEW CHROME don't we Telenator I'd have mine replated but I'm worried that the FENDER engraving would be lost. Ideally I could find some new covers to put on the pups and put the originals aside for safe keeping. Steve |
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#50 (permalink) | |
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Tele-Afflicted
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Quote:
I know vintage Tele bridge pickups don't have plastic bobbins (they have fiberboard top and bottom pieces). Modern ones, however, DO have a one-piece plastic bobbin that looks eerily like the one above (even down to the square holes between poles). You could probably get a zillion Squier Affinity bridge pickups (I'd donate one) for testing purposes. Anyhow, I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just telling what I thought when I saw that picture. Great thread!
__________________
Two Teles + One Strat + Three Acoustics (6, 12 & solidbody 6) + Two Mandolins (4 & 8 strings) + One Bass (5 strings) = 59 strings total |
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#51 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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Well, so far it looks like the bobbins are very close in size and pole spacing to a regular Tele bridge pickup. The only exception being the Tele bobbin is taller. This is encouraging. Keep the info coming guys. We're getting closer.
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#52 (permalink) |
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TDPRI Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alton Iowa USA
Age: 51
Posts: 77
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"Also, I'm looking for any leads of info on the magnet material that sits on the baseplate of the pickup. The "mystery magnet" material."
"I am positive there wasn't anything magnetic between the bottom of the bobbin and the base plate." is this the plate you guys are refering to? |
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#53 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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Yes, that's it. I have heard from my tech that it's actually phenolic that has been coated with something. Phenolic is a thermoset plastic often useed as an electrical insulator.
The material you have there looks like metal that has been gold irridated. That piece is the one remaining mystery part in this project. Anyone know what it is? |
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#54 (permalink) |
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TDPRI Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alton Iowa USA
Age: 51
Posts: 77
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Telenator
this plate is definitley not phenolic, it is a solid metal plate. I put a magent to it and it is ferrous metal. I did not try to see if the plate itself was magnetized but will do so. Steve |
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#56 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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There is another forum called "Offset Guitars" with some very knowledgable people who have a wealth of info on these WRHB.
Progess has slowed here because of job pressures. I have another assignment in the Bahamas next week and then I'll be in Myrtle Beach a couple weeks after that. I need a vacation! |
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#57 (permalink) |
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Tele-Meister
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North Bay
Age: 29
Posts: 286
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I have been waiting for quite a while for someone with better resources and connections than myself to take this project on.
If we are lucky enough to simply find a way to convert a Mexican widerange to an origonal type widerange, somebody could make quite a bit of extra cash and help many tone chasers. Sounds like it may be too good to be true but I'm hoping for ya. It is only a matter of time before the aftermarket, or Fender itself meets the demand and does what Fender should have done when they reissued it. Good Luck. |
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#58 (permalink) |
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Tele-Holic
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kentucky
Age: 26
Posts: 926
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Hey I recently bought a WRHB on ebay hoping it would be the same type of reissue from my '98 CIJ '72 thinline. When I got it though it had a black cable coming out of that was quite thinner than the grey lead out of the Japan pickups and had different screws as well as a badly scratched up cover. He then told me it came off an old strat he had bought that had been routed to accept these pickups. Anyone know how to tell apart the MIM, MIA, and MIA WRHB? It'd be cool if I got an original one for like $53.
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#59 (permalink) |
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Tele-Afflicted
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Count me in!!!
Very interested in cunife pole piece upgrades! Glad to see that someone has enough gumption to come up with a solution to this long overdue problem.
__________________
"What a perfect solution to a problem that should have never existed in the first place!" |
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#60 (permalink) | ||
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Tele-Meister
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 427
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Quote:
Quote:
http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.htm...-04-2006:28:38 That is the first I've read about anybody doing that. It's stil not a real WR pickup, but might be worth looking into further. |
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#61 (permalink) | |
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Poster Extraordinaire
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Quote:
If you can determine that the holes for the polepieces are compatible, how about trying a cover made for one of the reissues? |
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#63 (permalink) | |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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Quote:
I hear this all the time. I'm a photographer and believe me, these trips are no vacation. I've actually had 3 assistants quit because of the hours and grueling schedule while working in "paradise." When the client is paying over $1000 a day plus expenses, they totally expect you to get off the plane with the camera clicking and not put away until the flight attendant forces you into your seat and demands that you "turn off all electronic devices." If I never had to go to these places and work again, you wouldn't hear me complain! |
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#64 (permalink) | |
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Tele-Holic
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Quote:
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#66 (permalink) |
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NEW MEMBER!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Age: 26
Posts: 3
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I think the basic idea there is to lower the inductance in the pickup by reducing the amount of ferromagnetic material in the core and to make the string sensing area more narrow. Lowering the inductance increases the resonant peak, and narrowing the string sensing area reduces high frequency rolloff.
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#67 (permalink) | |
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Friend of Leo's
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: victoria b.c.
Age: 51
Posts: 4,267
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Quote:
__________________
Oh...the girls are out to bingoand the boys are gettin' stinko...." Sudbury Saturday Night |
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#69 (permalink) |
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Friend of Leo's
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Great thread and project, have a set of originals that I am appreciating even more now!
That winding info is also invaluable, mine measure just over 11k, hot! I thinks it's perfectly reasonable that fender were just lazy when they did the re-issues, if you look at the large amount off inaccurate specs in even more popular models done over the last 20 years its no surprise.
__________________
my afro ambient side project: http://www.myspace.com/theswyambusessions I play dancy bass here: http://www.myspace.com/casabellamusic |
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#70 (permalink) |
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Tele-Afflicted
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Telenator and Yegbert--regarding the cover hole size and thread issues, the cover holes on my original WR do not line up that well with the pole pieces and the pole pieces do not bite or thread through the cover, as the holes in the cover are bigger than the diameter of the pole pieces. All of the bite or threading of the pole pieces is in the plastic or vinyl material of the pickup bobbin, and none of the threading is with the cover or the base. Even though the re-issue bobbins are taller and narrower than the original bobbins, which are wider and very flat, the re-issue cover might be close enough to work with an original WR sized bobbin and magnets.
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#71 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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I'm thinking that Tele bridge p'up bobbins might be just right for this. I will be using the MIM covers because they're readily available. It's really no big deal to drill and tap the bobbins for the right diameter and thread pitch to accomodate the magnets.
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#72 (permalink) | |
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Poster Extraordinaire
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Quote:
Someone posted a while back here, that he removed the ceramic bar magnet(s) from a Squier Affinity pickup, removed the steel poles and then replaced them with AlNiCo slugs. He was able to do that relatively easily because those plastic bobbins have a plastic sleeve that surrounds the polepiece and is somewhat integral to the top and bottom flatware; unlike other Tele pickup construction methods in which the steel or AlNiCo polepiece may have no surrounding sleeve. (Look at the Tele bridge pickup parts from Stewmac as an example of a sleeveless design.) The relevance of that mod to this thread, is that a bobbin with that sleeve type construction might be just the ticket for this project. Other factors to consider: The hole diameter in the bobbin/sleeve needs a small enough inside diameter (in addition to being thick enough) to be threadable to the target size CuNiFe polepiece. Not all Tele bobbins are spaced the same. Maybe the same among all Tele bridge pickups in Fender designed Teles, but I've seen some with a narrower spacing. |
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#73 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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The bobbins are the least of my worries. I can machine a few of those to whatever size I need them to be. It's a matter of getting all the parts together and having them work with the MIM size cover. The last thing I want to have to do is start bending up sheet metal and getting it chromed for pickup covers.
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#74 (permalink) |
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Tele-Afflicted
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I read somewhere that the wide/flat bobbin sensed more string area and the flatter bobbin height contributed more bass, which combined with the greater string articulation, brightness and single-coil ish sound of having the polepieces be the magnets, rather than a bar magnet. Perhaps that's why they called them "wide range". In any event, along with the CuNiFe magnets, I think having the very short or flat bobbin will be critical to getting the WR sound, and using a bobbin as tall as a tele bridge may affect the sound. Assuming the above is correct, it makes sense, as to my ear my old WR pickup has a great, clear, articulate string response and is sparkley when turned up, yet it has a very deep bass and very pronounced midrange.
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#75 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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Yeah, the Tele bobbins are taller. It's going to take a little time but I now have enough info to get started. First step will be to buy a few MIM humbuckers and cannibalize them for their covers and mounting brackets. Then use all the information so many folks here have kindly offered and start putting some of these together.
If I could just stop traveling long enough to get a few consecutive weeks at home, I could get busy with all of this! |
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#76 (permalink) |
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TDPRI Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alton Iowa USA
Age: 51
Posts: 77
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"I have another assignment in the Bahamas next week and then I'll be in Myrtle Beach a couple weeks after that. I need a vacation!"
OMG - are you freakin kiddin me? remember, I know what you do for a livin'.... but seriously, when its for work I know how it can take the polish off of those kinds of places. hang in there man! I love your work! Steve |
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#77 (permalink) | |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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Quote:
Thanks for the kind words on my published work. |
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#79 (permalink) |
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TDPRI Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alton Iowa USA
Age: 51
Posts: 77
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warning - off topic
"I have been traveling and working for so long now that, when I'm traveling for pleasure, I don't know what to do with myself! It's awful!" I can relate. I used to have travel extensively for my job. It was before 9/11 so at least the airport stuff wasn't as much of a hassle but I hated it none the less. Once at the destination there was usually no time for fun. Every once in awhile I'd get a chance to sneak off and relax. I got so burned out on the whole traveling thing that when I'd have a vacation I was very content just spending it at home with my hobbies. Thankfully I don't have to put up with it anymore. However to this day I still prefer my vacations right here at home. Ok back to pickups.... Can't wait to hear what comes next Telenator! (BTW - I just got my new white pearl pickguard blank and I'm fixin' to cut my first pickguard so I can put my original WRHBs back in the guitar- see here http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...-thinline.html) Steve Last edited by ezrydr; April 23rd, 2008 at 01:51 PM. |
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#80 (permalink) |
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VENDOR
Poster Extraordinaire
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Thanks for the info jivetrain. I'll have to try that out.
Right on ezrydr. I like staying home now too. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt! I'll be gone tomorrow through Tuesday so there won't be much to report here until I get back and buy a few MIM pickups to work with. |
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