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Finely Finished Discussion of painting, finishing and yes, even relicing your guitar. Remember relicing is a finish option not an affront to your emotions.


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Old January 16th, 2013, 04:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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My worst finishing nightmare

Ive got a PRS SE Standard guitar, Ive previously finished last December 2012. It was matte black. Got it used and the finish was horrible. Uneven texture, some spots are shiny, some are not, lots of scratches and bumps.

Ive decided to have it refinished, due to a low on cash at that point. I did it myself reading forums and what not. I even read the reranch 101 for references.

First. I sanded the body with 600, and didn't go thru the wood just to leave the polyester coat with a thin layer of the previous paint. I used a can of acrylic lacquer spray paint (gloss black). 1 paint coat a day and left it drying for 24 hours, after 4 days. I sprayed 1 coat of Clear acrylic lacquer and after an hour added 3 heavy coats with one hour drying time respectively.

After a month and a half has passed, I checked the paint its hard, I cant smell the fumes anymore. I wet sanded it down with 2000 grit sandpaper and begin to buff the body. After that I hung the guitar for another week. Then I begin to assemble the parts the next week. After that I put the guitar on the guitar stand. After leaving it for 1 day. My worst nightmare happened.

There are ugly markings underneath the guitar, the markings came from the guitar stand. I used a rubbing compound to wear it off. It kinda removed it. So what i did was to get a smooth fabric for the guitar to lay unto and get a fan to dry up that part where I swiped the rubbing compound.

When I hold the guitar up after half a day. There were small markings on the back of the finish, those markings came from the fabric I used to lay the guitar with. I tried rubbing it off with a rubbing compound but it wont come off. Now I'm really frustrated. I waited almost 2 months for this and with lots and lots of trial and error. Now the guitar is sitting in front of the fan to dry the back and the front area to maximize the drying time.

What can I do to fix this? I really don't have the funds to have it refinished by a pro since its expensive. PLease help!

Thanks

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Old January 16th, 2013, 04:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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When I painted the guitar in my avatar, I used acrylic lacquer. It took several months to harden--in the SUMMER. 4+ months after spraying, I laid it on top of a cable overnight, and the mark is still there....
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Old January 16th, 2013, 05:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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When I painted the guitar in my avatar, I used acrylic lacquer. It took several months to harden--in the SUMMER. 4+ months after spraying, I laid it on top of a cable overnight, and the mark is still there....
Really 4 months? Dang!that is really a long time.. What did you do to fix those marks? or did you just leave it?
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Old January 16th, 2013, 05:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Really 4 months? Dang!that is really a long time.. What did you do to fix those marks? or did you just leave it?
Played it.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 05:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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^ Ha!! I knew you would do that! :)
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Old January 16th, 2013, 05:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I had the same experience with acrylic lacquer. 4 months before it hardened enough so that fabric didn't mar the finish. I just played it and now I have a "relic" finish.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 05:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah, it's on the back, and I don't have the feeling that the acrylic's going to be all that tough over the long run anyway, so I just figure the mojo-implantation process has started.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 05:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I had the same experience with acrylic lacquer. 4 months before it hardened enough so that fabric didn't mar the finish. I just played it and now I have a "relic" finish.
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Originally Posted by Jupiter View Post
Yeah, it's on the back, and I don't have the feeling that the acrylic's going to be all that tough over the long run anyway, so I just figure the mojo-implantation process has started.

Stefanovich: nice! that sounds good! i'll have to wait for another 2 months I guess.

Jupiter: I see what you mean. I'll still check out what others will have to say. There might be a solution to the problem. But if no one knows what to do. I'll guess I just have to wait a few more months before I can play with my guitar.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I can't leave any lacquered guitars on a stand. I get the same thing. It's better with an old T shirt draped on the stand, but still not perfect. I sold my last lacquered guitar a month ago. It was completed last winter. Still would leave an imprint if anything was pressing on it.

Either hang it or keep it in a case. I've had no issues with it in a Fender chainsaw case, although when I leave it closed and open it in a week, it smells like the guitar is spraying lacquer in my face. So it does indeed continue to outgas. I think you did the same as me with acrylic color and clear. I've got 2 projects right now with acrylic color and nitro clear. If nothing else, the nitro smells way nicer than acrylic. Minwax in the black can lacquer at Home Depot is about $8 a can (vs duplicolor acrylic large can at $6).
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Old January 16th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Don't feel too bad. The lacquer on the neck of my '52 Hot Rod reacted with a hanger I had it on. Left dents on both sides of the headstock. I sanded them down with 600 up to 1500 and it is fine. Luckily, I am not too picky about my guitars.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The rubber padding on MOST guitar stands WILL destroy the finish on MOST guitars.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It depends on what you're willing to live with. If you want a finish that will look professional and protect the guitar well, I would advise stripping it down and starting over (with a professional-grade finish). I had to learn this the hard way too.

I've had terrible luck with acrylic "lacquer" in the past (picture fingerprint smudges that turned out to be pressed into the finish - and this happened from handling it after it had set up for 2 weeks!).
Nothing worse than getting to the end of a build project only to find that the finish didn't cure and having to strip it and refinish...

I've learned my lesson and now only use good quality nitrocellulose lacquer.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 06:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Don't feel too bad. The lacquer on the neck of my '52 Hot Rod reacted with a hanger I had it on. Left dents on both sides of the headstock. I sanded them down with 600 up to 1500 and it is fine. Luckily, I am not too picky about my guitars.
So when you sanded it down, does it go thru the wood or do you still have some clear finish on the headstock?

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The rubber padding on MOST guitar stands WILL destroy the finish on MOST guitars.
I see what you mean, but I have no choice. My guitar stand has rubber padding on it!

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Originally Posted by fabricator View Post
It depends on what you're willing to live with. If you want a finish that will look professional and protect the guitar well, I would advise stripping it down and starting over (with a professional-grade finish). I had to learn this the hard way too.

I've had terrible luck with acrylic "lacquer" in the past (picture fingerprint smudges that turned out to be pressed into the finish - and this happened from handling it after it had set up for 2 weeks!).
Nothing worse than getting to the end of a build project only to find that the finish didn't cure and having to strip it and refinish...

I've learned my lesson and now only use good quality nitrocellulose lacquer.
So did you just strip it again and do the refinish?How did it turn out? Sad thing is I can't find some good nitro here on our country, which is a real bummer. I'm stuck with Acrylic lacquers and Polyurethane spray cans.

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Originally Posted by Jack FFR1846 View Post
I can't leave any lacquered guitars on a stand. I get the same thing. It's better with an old T shirt draped on the stand, but still not perfect. I sold my last lacquered guitar a month ago. It was completed last winter. Still would leave an imprint if anything was pressing on it.

Either hang it or keep it in a case. I've had no issues with it in a Fender chainsaw case, although when I leave it closed and open it in a week, it smells like the guitar is spraying lacquer in my face. So it does indeed continue to outgas. I think you did the same as me with acrylic color and clear. I've got 2 projects right now with acrylic color and nitro clear. If nothing else, the nitro smells way nicer than acrylic. Minwax in the black can lacquer at Home Depot is about $8 a can (vs duplicolor acrylic large can at $6).
If you leave it in the case that will still ruin the finish right since a hard case or even a softcase has fabric texture in it. It will leave imprints on the guitar?
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:07 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Your problem was the WET or heavy coats of lacqure.

its a soft paint to begine with and heavy coats dont allow the coat under to fully cure. the paint may never fully harden
the Key is to keep the paint thin and use a hard durable finish.

Alsa corp makes a 2K clear in a spray can. thats the best !
use any color base you want, use very light coats and just enough color to cover. Then clear

another second best solution for spray cans is Dupli-color wheel paint (CLEAR) the wheel paints are polyurethane not lacqure. They dry much harder and more durable.

heck for all the work you put into it you could have gone to harbor freight bought a $15 HVLP gun and a gallon of urethane clear and hardener from NAPA and had enough to clear 50 guitars. its super easy to spray and the most durable finish.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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it might have been the clear coats. i've used Duplicolor acrylic lacquer colors without any problems, but i've avoided the clear coats because i've heard too many horror stories about them. obviously for some colors you're going to want a clear, but if it's a non-metallic solid (like plain black, white, etc), you can just buff out the color coat. Fender made plenty of guitars that only used color coats and no clear.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 09:51 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HardlyDangerous View Post
Your problem was the WET or heavy coats of lacqure.

its a soft paint to begine with and heavy coats dont allow the coat under to fully cure. the paint may never fully harden
the Key is to keep the paint thin and use a hard durable finish.

Alsa corp makes a 2K clear in a spray can. thats the best !
use any color base you want, use very light coats and just enough color to cover. Then clear

another second best solution for spray cans is Dupli-color wheel paint (CLEAR) the wheel paints are polyurethane not lacqure. They dry much harder and more durable.

heck for all the work you put into it you could have gone to harbor freight bought a $15 HVLP gun and a gallon of urethane clear and hardener from NAPA and had enough to clear 50 guitars. its super easy to spray and the most durable finish.
This probably makes sense.My first color coat is thin, though the next 3 coats were a bit heavy and then 4 heavy coats for the clear so I have some room for wet sanding and buffing. Dang thanks! I'll keep this advice for future projects. However is there any chance the inner coats will harden?or it will take a long time for it to fully cure?


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Originally Posted by Cat MacKinnon View Post
it might have been the clear coats. i've used Duplicolor acrylic lacquer colors without any problems, but i've avoided the clear coats because i've heard too many horror stories about them. obviously for some colors you're going to want a clear, but if it's a non-metallic solid (like plain black, white, etc), you can just buff out the color coat. Fender made plenty of guitars that only used color coats and no clear.

I see thanks for this one. This is also a great idea. No clear. BTW Can I also just use polyurethane for clear? even if I use acrylic lacquer as a color coat? will that work out?
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I often use 2K polyurethane (clear car paint).

It's insane. Next day you need something metal to make a mark in it.

Can't breathe it in though, unless you want to change the DNA in your lung cells to say, "Grow like wildfire and spread around my body disrupting essential processes!" instead of, "Process oxygen for me."
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 12:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I often use 2K polyurethane (clear car paint).

It's insane. Next day you need something metal to make a mark in it.

Can't breathe it in though, unless you want to change the DNA in your lung cells to say, "Grow like wildfire and spread around my body disrupting essential processes!" instead of, "Process oxygen for me."
Ha!That is insane!Drys fast too.. The next thing you said quite bothers me since I already have problems with my lungs. Its a pass for me mate
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Old January 26th, 2013, 10:41 AM   #19 (permalink)
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if you use acrylic lacquer, you can put clear nitro lacquer over it. i don't know if it would be okay to put poly over a color lacquer, you might run into compatibility problems. note that i'm talking about the polyurethane from the hardware store, not the catalyzed 2-part auto stuff which is a totally different beast.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The rubber padding on MOST guitar stands WILL destroy the finish on MOST guitars.
not as fast as i do.
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