Needing to grain fill more than once

[barbrainy]

I have a swamp ash body with some quite deep grain. So far I have done these stages:

1) Sand body with 320 grit
2) Cellulose sanding sealer (2 coats) then sand flat with 320 grit
3) 1 coat of Timbermate grain filler
4) Sand flat with 320 grit
5) Another coat of sanding sealer


There is still grain holes showing (you know, when you angle the body to the light, you can see where the body is still not flat, where there are still depressions to be filled)

Does this mean I have done something wrong? Made the grain filler too runny? Sanded too much after grain filling? (there was still clearly filler in the grain after sanding and before stage 5 above)

I presume I should simply grain fill again and seal again, until I get all the grain fully filled and the whole body perfectly flat?

[PinewoodRo]

Not sure you need to seal it again in between grain filling - just keep filling till you're happy.
I'm sure someone more skilled than me could do it in one go, but I've always needed fill at least twice with ash.

[barbrainy]

That's good point about not sealing between filling coats - thanks! Kind of a waste of sealer, isn't it? I did find it helped me see where the holes still were, though (while the coat was still wet)

And if that's the end result of your work, I'll be very happy if I achieve such a beautiful result!!

[PinewoodRo]

Thanks. Next time I might try a little darker grain filler - this one was 'neutral' and from some angles the grain disappears. I have a mahogany one ready to spray but I'm still waiting for the humidity to drop.....

[CIVENGR]

I'm having the same problem. I sanded the top of my guitar after the Timbermate step and I think I either did it too soon or just over sanded. However, on the back and sides it seems to have worked well enough. Though I didn't do anything different. I plan on Tru-Oiling the body and I'm not sure how big a deal a well done grain filling job is.

[barbrainy]

Originally Posted by CIVENGR

I'm having the same problem. I sanded the top of my guitar after the Timbermate step and I think I either did it too soon or just over sanded. However, on the back and sides it seems to have worked well enough. Though I didn't do anything different. I plan on Tru-Oiling the body and I'm not sure how big a deal a well done grain filling job is.

I don't know if it's a big deal unless you want a perfectly flat, shiny, glassy finish? (which I do, although paradoxically, I am using nitro because I want it to wear and age, not remain perfect)

Otherwise, all the knowledgeable people (ie not me) always say the key to a great end result, finish wise, is great prep - ie grain filling (where needed), sanding sealer etc etc.

I've just put a second coat of Timbermate on, so we will see how much that changes things in the next day or two.....

[Silverface]

I have found Timbermate to take at least two and usually more applications, with very precise cross-grain leveling/removing excess with a plastic flexible Bondo blade (and I seal between coats - been doing it that way forever; it does help expose any "holidays", aka missed spots). For a long time I used Sinclair's (a long-gone west coast ppaint manufacturer) #50 paste wood filler, went though several others including Timbermate and now use only Mohawk's. Mohawk's grain filler is tintable with universal tints or oil-based stain, is easy to adjust as far as viscosity, and very predictable as far as results of each procedure once you've worked with it a bit. I use the filler, specific solvent, Bondo blades, terrycloth towels and tinting colors as required. Ash is usually a one-pass operation for a smooth, glassy finish; I thin it more than the usual 4:1 for slightly aged looks.

[backporch guy]

Ash usually takes at least 2 grainfills to completely fill the grain.

[conorb]

I've found with Swamp Ash that it takes at least two solid/full treatments to fill the grain. Even then you may have a few areas that aren't completely filled.

I've had good luck building those areas up using sand/sealer during the process to get the surface nice and flat.

conorb

[barbrainy]

Originally Posted by backporch guy

Ash usually takes at least 2 grainfills to completely fill the grain.

Originally Posted by conorb

I've found with Swamp Ash that it takes at least two solid/full treatments to fill the grain. Even then you may have a few areas that aren't completely filled.

I've had good luck building those areas up using sand/sealer during the process to get the surface nice and flat.

conorb

Originally Posted by Silverface

I have found Timbermate to take at least two and usually more applications, with very precise cross-grain leveling/removing excess with a plastic flexible Bondo blade (and I seal between coats - been doing it that way forever; it does help expose any "holidays", aka missed spots). For a long time I used Sinclair's (a long-gone west coast ppaint .

Thanks chaps!

This reassures me that I am heading in the right direction, and (so far) not doing anything wrong.

Cheers

[PinewoodRo]

I'm going to try sealer in between coats of filler next time. Thanks.

[surfoverb]

grain filling ash is a major pita. I went through a whole tin of bartlys and still ended up with a few holes here and there. Did it maybe 5-6 times. Just could not get the hang. Luckily Im refrinishing an alder body right now and dont need it.

you can apply/sand it off as many times as you need, all you're doing is applying and removing it from the top and whats left fills the holes (or not) -in theory any way.

[surfoverb]

Originally Posted by barbrainy

I don't know if it's a big deal unless you want a perfectly flat, shiny, glassy finish? (which I do, although paradoxically, I am using nitro because I want it to wear and age, not remain perfect)

Otherwise, all the knowledgeable people (ie not me) always say the key to a great end result, finish wise, is great prep - ie grain filling (where needed), sanding sealer etc etc.

I've just put a second coat of Timbermate on, so we will see how much that changes things in the next day or two.....

you do want to fill as many holes as you can. Its still gonna age nicely. any holes that are left unfilled will sparkle like little diamonds of annoyance, forever reminding you that you didnt get it perfect.

once the clear coat is on and polished it acts like a magnifying glass, making all your mistakes even that more visable.

refinishing is all about the prep work-if its not perfectly prepped, holes filled, scratches removed and sanded flat before painting it will not look as good or professional. Its not that hard just time consuming and meticulous.
But worth it!

Of course some dont fill any of them, but if your gonna fill any, do them all; correctly-it will look better.