Pine body filling questions- new guy

[jeff_e]

Hi, I'm wondering if I need to fill little stuff like this... the little (tear out?) chips out of the rounded over edge? It seems like I would have to sand a fair bit more of a round over to get rid of it. I think I'll use danish oil to finish the body, I have some 'medium walnut'.

Would the 'slurry' from sanding with danish oil fill this? I have a little gouge by the neck pocket I was going to fill with epoxy, maybe I could fill these little chips with epoxy too?

I always seem to get hung up on stuff like this... :) Just don't want to mess it up.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Shepherd]

When you stain it those spots will absorb more stain and be darker and more noticeable, as will all the sanding marks. If you epoxy it then the reverse will happen. You could try wood glue mixed with sawdust but that will still be noticeable.I would try to sand as much of it out as possible then use a pre-stain wood conditioner before staining. Using a gel stain also helps.

[jeff_e]

Okay, thanks, I'll see what I can do with sanding. I found some Minwax conditioner in the basement. I knew I had some somewhere...

And I'll save the dust in case I need it.. :)

[Jupiter]

Aren't there some wood fillers that claim to take stain the same as wood?

[Mr. E]

Minwax stainable woodfiller?

[jeff_e]

Thanks, I'll look into that. I think I might have some light coloured filler. I'm going to look right now...

[Drak]

My advice would be to get out your sanding pads, some sandpaper, and whip out all the patience you have as well, because it's in situations exactly like this that separate the garage job from a pro looking job, as they say, 'the devil's in the details'.

Yes, if you want it to look really nice, don't try to fill any of that stuff in, you need to continue to sand that body until all of those little imperfections are gone, gone, gone and the body is clean and smooth of all blemishes.

You don't see (good) raw bodies for sale with splotches of filler filling in gaps like that, do you?
Because that's not the way it's done, you sand all that stuff out until it's gone.

Sometimes they come out almost perfect with very little cleanup to do, sometimes not, but you have to be ready to do whatever it takes however it comes out, you are the interface between the rough router shaping and the final product, you are the 'middleman' between those two stages, and it's perfectly normal to have to chase and remove imperfections like that if you want to build really nice instruments, not grab for some pore filler.

It will take a combination of sanding along the side edges and over the top, then attacking it from the top with the grain to remove all your sideways sanding marks, moving up in grits as you get close to done to start smoothing everything out and ready for finish.

Lower grits cut very quickly making your work easier, but their scratches will need to be removed by moving up in grits until you're at your final sanding grit level.

Here are the 4 basic tools I use to do what you're asking about, none of them cost more than 2-3 bucks apiece.
One is a soft sanding sponge, one is a hard rubber sanding pad, the other two are just cut-off pieces of wood with adhesive sandpaper applied to them, along with various sandpaper and some time, will smooth out just about any edge issues.

[Silverface]

Suggestion - pine, Douglas fir and such are cheap (and similar). Buy some scrap and try different processes and see what works best. Honestly, I'd never try a system for the first time on an actual guitar - that's a one-way ticket to disaster in many cases. I recommend ALWAYS testing on scrap first.

That being said, and having finished dozens of pine bodies, I'd recommend a solvent-type grain filler (like Mohawk) tinted slightly darker than whatever the color is you would stain it with - that gives you some nice contract. I'd stay with oil stains - Minwax stain can be mixed into Mohawk filler to tint it - then you smooth that out, sand until it's very smooth, spray sanding sealer, lightly sand that smooth - then stain. This way you can control the color. If it starts to go too dark you can use mineral spirits or naphtha (lighter fluid) to rub and lighten darker areas, something that doesn't work well on unsealed wood. then let it all dry and clear coat it.

It's really not hard - but rather that guess at which recommendation is right and diving in, pick one, try it on scrap - then if you don't like it you have not wrecked anything.

[milocj]

Silverface,
Is grain filler necessary on all pine bodies or are you only recommending it for use when going with a stain finish? I thought that pine didn't need grain filler the way some other woods do.

I'm about to finish one that I want to be at least semi-transparent so the grain shows through, but I think I'll either go natural without stains or with a whitish blonde sort of in the vein of Mary Kay or whitegaurd blonde.

[jeff_e]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I did a little sanding on the edges just with 320 grit, I don't think it will take as much sanding as I thought. I will get some scrap, though, to play with sanding and also finishing...when I get to that stage...

[Silverface]

To answer your question, it's not necessary on all pine bodies - but almost every one I seem to get my hands on needs it, especially on the open grain. Grain filler is really not that big a deal to do - it's far easier for most people than spraying a finish and only takes a few minutes to do, plus a few more sanding. If it's done well (especially in a tinted color) it's well worth the effort IMO.

[alscort93]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

Minwax stainable woodfiller?

That stuff shows, especially in a darker stain. I used it over some brad nails and I had little splotches that the Red Mahogany stain didn't soak into as well as it did on the rest of the wood. This was also using a pre stain conditioner since it was "white wood" 1x8 from Lowe's.

[nadurtha]

320 is probably a bit fine. If thats what you have use it but you could smoothen that out with 120 or 150 real quick. 90% of guitar making is sanding so an orbital sander is very handy.

From what I can see it looks good so far. Good luck with it

[jeff_e]

I spent a little time sanding today. Some 150 grit took care of the round over area nicely. I'm quite happy with this body, I don't think I'll touch the front and back with anything less than 400 grit. Just a little nick on the side by the neck pocket I have to fill in.

[VinceM]

Originally Posted by alscort93

That stuff shows, especially in a darker stain. I used it over some brad nails and I had little splotches that the Red Mahogany stain didn't soak into as well as it did on the rest of the wood. This was also using a pre stain conditioner since it was "white wood" 1x8 from Lowe's.

+1

I've used the stainable woodfiller and while it's definitely stainable, it sticks out like a sore thumb in large areas. It stains differently than the wood because it dries a different color than the wood.

[Jazzerstang]

yeah, woodfiller should do it. Just let it dry hard and then lightly sand.