Nitro Lacquer compatability

[Irving]

Anyone think that the T70 C 60 nitro gloss lacquer from sherwin williams would be compatible with Behlen Nitro that comes from Stew Mac?

I need a few more coats of lacquer on this guitar and I'm trying to find some nitro from a local store.

I know that optimally I should obviously use the same product, but in theory should it work to mix products just so long as they are both nitro?

[Shepherd]

Dont know about SW but as long as it's nitro it will work. You can also find Watco or Minwax nitro at hardware stores.

[Irving]

Originally Posted by Shepherd

Dont know about SW but as long as it's nitro it will work. You can also find Watco or Minwax nitro at hardware stores.

Really? I've typed miniwax nitro lacquer online and have found nothing. Does it say nitrocellulose lacquer on the label?

[Flakey]

Originally Posted by Irving

Really? I've typed miniwax nitro lacquer online and have found nothing. Does it say nitrocellulose lacquer on the label?

No it doesn't say nitro but according to their customer service it is nitro (this issue of is it or is it not nitro has been batted around the forum for a while) I have used Minwax lacquer with Watcos, Cabots, Behlens, etc. and never had an issues. Its my favorite to use; dries really hard, and the spray nozzle shoots smooth. The difference between all the manufactures seems that they all have a slightly different formula but nitro is pretty much nitro.

One note on Behlens its seems to take a much longer time to really harden (cure out) than the rest and that could cause problems with faster drying brands.

[Irving]

Originally Posted by Flakey

No it doesn't say nitro but according to their customer service it is nitro (this issue of is it or is it not nitro has been batted around the forum for a while) I have used Minwax lacquer with Watcos, Cabots, Behlens, etc. and never had an issues. Its my favorite to use; dries really hard, and the spray nozzle shoots smooth. The difference between all the manufactures seems that they all have a slightly different formula but nitro is pretty much nitro.

One note on Behlens its seems to take a much longer time to really harden (cure out) than the rest and that could cause problems with faster drying brands.

Ok. Have you sprayed all these different types through an HVLP gun? I only miniwax lacquer I see is called brushing lacquer. Can you share which specific formula you used of both the miniwax and the watco? Thanks!

[Flakey]

Originally Posted by Irving

Ok. Have you sprayed all these different types through an HVLP gun? I only miniwax lacquer I see is called brushing lacquer. Can you share which specific formula you used of both the miniwax and the watco? Thanks!

I do rattle cans (no cleanup) but Buckocaster has sprayed brushing lacquer (checkout his thread) and a few others have also with satisfactory results. The thing about brushing lacquer is that its formulated to have a slower drying time to allow the lacquer to flow out smoother after it comes off the brush.

Now I have used all the previously mentioned brushing lacquers by brush redoing furniture and again Minwax all around for the same reasons I like their rattle cans.

If you do spray bushing lacquer you may need to cut it with thinner so it will flow out of the gun and that would affect drying time. By what ratio would be hard for me to determine since humidity plays a role in the mix.

Colt who has numerous posts is a great source of knowledge on these things also and I would recommend searching some of his posts.

[Shepherd]

Minwax says "Brushing Lacquer is specifically formulated to deliver excellent results when applied with a brush. It is not suitable for use in spray equipment." but all you have to do is thin it out then it sprays fine. If your gun has a 1.8 or bigger tip it probably wont need thinning. You can use the spray cans but you have to apply alot more coats to achieve any build cause it's pretty thin.

[Irving]

So I realize this has probably been discussed before here, but what makes people think that miniwax, among other hardware store lacquers, are nitrocellulose while it does not say so on the can?

[Colt W. Knight]

Sherwin Williams T 70 C 60 would be compatible with Behlens Stringed instrument lacquer.

Before I found Sherwin Williams lacquers, I was constantly trying new products, and trying to make Home Depot and Lowes products work. In my opinion, the Sherwin Williams products are superior to most lacquers. They dry harder and sand/buff easier than most lacquers I have used.

I have sprayed both Minwax and DEFT brushing lacquers through a HVLP gun, and I can say with 100% certaintity, don't use DEFT. That stuff dries slows, its soft, its more chemically reactive, and it imprints easily. While the minwax is better, its still not as nice as Behlens or SW.

[Irving]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

Sherwin Williams T 70 C 60 would be compatible with Behlens Stringed instrument lacquer.

Before I found Sherwin Williams lacquers, I was constantly trying new products, and trying to make Home Depot and Lowes products work. In my opinion, the Sherwin Williams products are superior to most lacquers. They dry harder and sand/buff easier than most lacquers I have used.

I have sprayed both Minwax and DEFT brushing lacquers through a HVLP gun, and I can say with 100% certaintity, don't use DEFT. That stuff dries slows, its soft, its more chemically reactive, and it imprints easily. While the minwax is better, its still not as nice as Behlens or SW.

Great info thank you! I have just found an interesting lacquer online during my exhausting nitro search.

Gemini Precatalyzed Gloss Lacquer (1 gal)
check it out: http://www.worldpaintsupply.com/gemi...lacquer-1-gal/

The price is right. under $30 for a gallon. Anyone tried this stuff?

[Colt W. Knight]

Ive never used catalyzed lacquers, but I have a buddy who builds cabinets that uses that Gemni stuff. He really likes it.

[Irving]

Now, what is the difference between a pre catylized nitro lacquer and regular nitro lacquer? Very novice questions I know.

[Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Irving

So I realize this has probably been discussed before here, but what makes people think that miniwax, among other hardware store lacquers, are nitrocellulose while it does not say so on the can?

Never says on the can. You have to read the ingredient list in the MSDS.
The best lacquer I have ever used is Classic Instrument Lacquer by Mohawk who also makes Behlens. Reranch uses as well as alot of pro builders and furniture makers. Do a search for reviews. It's also not expensive and Mohawk makes everything you need for refinishing.
http://magicwoodrepair.com/items/Lac...cquer/list.htm
http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp

[LakeSuperiorMM]

While talking with the tech reps from Rustoleum, who own WATCO, I was informed of Watco brushing laquer, which is nitrocellulose. They recommend up to 10% thinning with regular laquer thinner only. I am using it over a water based stain with a HVLP Tool Shop gun on a 24 3/4 scale neck for my MIM Strat. (USACustom Guitars mfg.) It goes on quite thick compared to 50-50% reduction and lays down nicely. It flashes off fast so dust does not seem to be much of a problem. In WI it is available from Menards, and maybe both Home Depot and Lowe's. It will get 1-2 more coats before curing and then maybe color sanding and rubbing, but it lays down smooth so it may not need rubbing. More as I get farther along.

[Irving]

Thank you for those links. Those are great prices for that Mohawk stuff.

[Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Irving

Now, what is the difference between a pre catylized nitro lacquer and regular nitro lacquer? Very novice questions I know.

Precat is more like a varnish and cures by chemical reaction rather than evaporation. It has a recoat time and wont burn in to the previous coat like nitro and you cant build it up too thick cause it will craze later on. It's alot more durable than nitro and used mainly for kitchen cabinets.

[Irving]

Originally Posted by Shepherd

Precat is more like a varnish and cures by chemical reaction rather than evaporation. It has a recoat time and wont burn in to the previous coat like nitro and you cant build it up too thick cause it will craze later on. It's alot more durable than nitro and used mainly for kitchen cabinets.

I see. Thank you for that. Well that Precat Gemini product says that it's "formulated with high-quality, imported nitrocellulose and resins" so I assumed that this meant that it was to be considered a nitro cellulose lacquer.

Can lacquers not be both nitro and precat?

[Silverface]

but what makes people think that miniwax, among other hardware store lacquers, are nitrocellulose while it does not say so on the can?

1) Look at the MSDS. If you are familiar with lacquer formulations the solvent content disclosed on the MSDS is typical of an acrylic/nitrocellulose or nitrocellulose lacquer (most "nitro" is acrylic/nitro blend and has been since the 1950's).

2) Call or email the company's tech support department.

As mentioned before, only sporadically is "nitrocellulose" mentioned on the can - partially because it gets people confused when it's NOT there on other products that are perfectly compatible. Again, most products sold labeled as "lacquer" are acrylic nitrocellulose blends. Pure "nitro" is nasty stuff to manufacture and not very forgiving in application, plus it has very little film flexibility, which can be a real problem on motor vehicles (where many of the lacquer colors originated - right out of auto parts stores in Fullerton CA) AND musical instruments.

Most of those who think they are applying "pure nitro" have never applied pure nitro. That being said, there are good and bad and many varities of each. Like Colt, I like the SW products - they stopped stocking them around here, though, so I use Valspar bulk lacquers now and Mohawk's rattle-can toners and specialty products (and sometimes gloss and semi gloss finishes when I feel lazy and don't want to use the HVLP...). At 5 or 6 bucks a can and with fine-finish spray tips I find myself getting lazier lately!

;-)