What if I put Tru Oil right over shellac?

[2after909]

I thought I'd made up my mind to just shellac the pine body I bought to match the shellac'd musikraft neck I have, but I've come across several posts where people seem to be saying they put Tru Oil right over shellac and had no problems. So I'm confused. I will say, I don't particularly love either the look or the feel of the musikraft neck with just shellac on it. It's fast but it feels grainy, even after rubbing it with a 3M pad. And it's sort of that light maple color, sort of like a cheap-looking Squier or something.

Anyway, both Musikraft and Red Dirt said if I wanted to do a Tru Oil finish I'd have to first remove the shellac with denatured alcohol, but that it probably wouldn't remove all the shellac, which could cause the Tru Oil to stain the body and/or neck unevenly. But I'm just wondering what would happen if I put Tru Oil right over the shellac, instead of removing the shellac with denatured alcohol? I wouldn't have thought to try it except that it seems to have worked for other people. I guess I'm just not sure what to do.

Should I just shut up and shellac the body? Or should I just leave the shellac'd neck as is and do Tru Oil on the body? Or gamble on denatured alcohol then Tru Oil? Or can I just do Tru Oil right over the shellac? And if I do put Tru Oil over the shellac on the neck, should I put shellac on the pine tele body first and then put Tru Oil, to try to match the neck? I mean, I figure it'll never really match the neck anyway, since the neck's maple and the body's pine. So am I thinking about this the wrong way?

I guess I just need to pull the trigger and try one of these options, but before I do I figured I'd see if anybody had some words of wisdom for me.

[Tom Pettingill]

As long as its dewaxed shellac, there is no problem at all top coating with Tru Oil. I often use an amber flake shellac for a nice natural looking color on maple.

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[R. Stratenstein]

To be sure, I'd sand thoroughly first, then use a couple of good, wet wipe downs with alcohol. I just refinished a Strat neck for my son, who didn't like the finish, and after about a dozen coats of Tru-Oil right on the wood, rubbed out with 0000 steel wool, the neck is beautiful to the feel--smooth, lightning fast, and never sticky. Started with 100-grit then 120, 150,180, 220, then a 320 foam pad. (probably overkill!) Very light coats of Tru-Oil with a gun patch size cloth of old lint free t-shirt, rubbed down every 2 coats with 00 steel wool. Last 3 coats I used 0000 between coats, did final rubdown with 0000 steel wool. I think you'll be happy with the results. BTW, Tru-Oil does not color wood as much as some people think--it's pretty clear. You can tint it to get color you want, just be sure its compatible.

I agree you won't get a match between the maple neck and pine body, so if I were you, I'd just apply a finish on the body that pleases you and gives you the appearance you're after. After all, if you think about it few guitar necks match the bodies' finishes anyway.

[TNO]

Sounds to me like you didn't level sand the shellac or apply enough coats. I can easily get a lacquered look and feel using only fresh-mixed shellac in a preval.

[2after909]

Thanks all for your thoughts. This was helpful.

The finish on the back of that lap steel is beautiful!

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - I haven't done a thing to the body or the neck yet. The neck I have already has shellac on it that was put on at the factory. Musikraft tells me they use Zinsser clear spray-on shellac on their necks. Maybe I need to write back to them and find out if the kind they use is dewaxed? I wish I'd just gotten an unfinished neck.

I guess I'll just sand and Tru Oil the body according to the instructions many on this site have provided. But I don't know what I should do about the neck. I guess if the Zinsser shellac that Musickraft used is dewaxed, I'll Tru Oil the neck. If not, maybe I'll do nothing? I don't know. I'd like the neck to have a nicer feel, though, regardless...

[2after909]

by the way, now i'm just waiting to hear back from musikraft as to whether they used zinsser bullseye clear shellac (which is waxy) or zinnser sealcoat (which is dewaxed). it does seem like a company like musikraft would know better than to use waxed shellac.

[BrianKillebrew]

everything I've read on the subject leads me to believe that you want to apply tru oil to bare wood only. no sealer, no laquer, bare wood. ymmv

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by 2after909

by the way, now i'm just waiting to hear back from musikraft as to whether they used zinsser bullseye clear shellac (which is waxy) or zinnser sealcoat (which is dewaxed). it does seem like a company like musikraft would know better than to use waxed shellac.

I have sprayed numerous finishes over Zinsser bullseye clear shellac.

Originally Posted by BrianKillebrew

everything I've read on the subject leads me to believe that you want to apply tru oil to bare wood only. no sealer, no laquer, bare wood. ymmv

Kind of hard to argue with this guy! Quite simply, the best Tru Oil finishes I have ever seen on instruments. Birchwood Casey even makes a sealer that goes under Tru Oil.

Originally Posted by Tom Pettingill

As long as its dewaxed shellac, there is no problem at all top coating with Tru Oil. I often use an amber flake shellac for a nice natural looking color on maple.

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[SixShooter]

Originally Posted by 2after909

by the way, now i'm just waiting to hear back from musikraft as to whether they used zinsser bullseye clear shellac (which is waxy) or zinnser sealcoat (which is dewaxed). it does seem like a company like musikraft would know better than to use waxed shellac.

You can't put anything over waxed (non-dewaxed) shellac other than more shellac. I am sure that Musikraft uses a dewaxed shellac. The shellac they put on is meant as a sealer for other types of finishes such as nitro,

[2after909]

Thanks again for the further replies and info. I just got this email with the link included from musikraft:

here is what we use, I hope that's helpful, if not, let me know, thanks

http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarest...ac-263699.aspx


From what I've read, I understand that zinsser bullseye clear shellac is the waxed variety.

[Tom Pettingill]

Originally Posted by 2after909

From what I've read, I understand that zinsser bullseye clear shellac is the waxed variety.

I prefer fresh mixed flake shellac, but if Musikraft is listening, Zinnser Sealcoat shellac would be a much better choice for a shellac based sealer. It is dewaxed and is compatible with most all clear coats. In fact, Sealcoat is the only off the shelf canned shellac I would recommend.

For the neck, at the risk of overkill, I'd probably do a good scrub down with some denatured alcohol, then do a wash coat of a 1 lbs cut of flake or Sealcoat to seal it up. A shellac wash / sealer coat on the pine is not a bad idea either as it will lock in any possible resin bleeding or adhesion issues.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by SixShooter

You can't put anything over waxed (non-dewaxed) shellac other than more shellac. I am sure that Musikraft uses a dewaxed shellac. The shellac they put on is meant as a sealer for other types of finishes such as nitro,

This is nitrocellulose lacquer over top of that "waxed" Bullseye stuff. I guess it worked for me since I didn't know it wasn't supposed to work.



Im not saying that the Bullseye stuff is the best thing since peanut butter, becuase IMO, its a PITA to work with, so I stopped!

[piece of ash]

Kinda hard to believe that shellac marketed as a finish OR sealer wouldn't be dewaxed... as wax is generally considered a "release agent" for so many processes. And, when wax is removed, it is specifically done so to promote adhesion of overcoats.

Anybody have hard data stating that Zinsser is the UN-de-waxed variety?

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by piece of ash

Kinda hard to believe that shellac marketed as a finish OR sealer wouldn't be dewaxed... as wax is generally considered a "release agent" for so many processes. And, when wax is removed, it is specifically done so to promote adhesion of overcoats.

Anybody have hard data stating that Zinsser is the UN-de-waxed variety?

Here is all the info I could find

http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/t...h%20Sealer.pdf

MSDS link
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGResourceCenter.asp

[piece of ash]

Same thing I was looking at... If I had to guess... I bet they de wax it.

Kinda annoying how essential information is so difficult to come by...

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by piece of ash

Same thing I was looking at... If I had to guess... I bet they de wax it.

Kinda annoying how essential information is so difficult to come by...

I don't know if it is dewaxed or not. I know when you our it into a seperate container to thin it, you have to strain out a bunch of crap. Is that the wax? Or what?

[piece of ash]

Dunno what the junk is... if it is wax... that might support your success with it... after straining out that is.

Wiki says that unwaxed has a milky look in the can... then clear when dry...

[piece of ash]

Here's an interesting link... again... all hearsay:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...d_Shellac.html

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by piece of ash

Here's an interesting link... again... all hearsay:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...d_Shellac.html

Ive used that Zinsser shellac under a lot of finishes, and haven't had a problem yet.

[piece of ash]

I would bet that you wipe with solvent after the shellac... and that may just do the trick.

These guys were talking about both ZINSSER sealer AND clear though... and I didn't see the "sealer" product...

I am always leery of the 5 people posting that said they "had no problems" playing Russian Roulette. The 6th guy doesn't post.