Nitro can't be this fragile... can it???

[bad porcupine]

See photos below. Obviously I did something wrong somewhere along the line, but I just can't believe the lacquer on my Strat is coming off at this kind of alarming rate.

I've acquired a few little chips here and there since I finished this guitar earlier this summer, but I pretend that it doesn't bother me and that it's just a natural relicing process. Well, fine and dandy.

But this big chunk just came off after I tapped the guitar against the edge of... my couch. Granted, it hit on a hard corner, but it's upholstered for Pete's sake. I just can't believe that all lacquer finishes are this fragile. Are they?

For the record, I used StewMac products all the way through, let the body sit for a good month before beginning to sand/buff, and generally followed what I thought was the best advice available anywhere: the knowledgeable members of this forum.

Any ideas what I could have done wrong?




Edit: I'm working on a new Tele project that I really DON'T want to be a relic. Any tips from my Tele brethren would be greatly appreciated.

[bossaholic]

One reason guitar manufacturers use Poly.

Despite how appealing a beat-up old Blackguard looks to us now, Leo was horrified at the rate nitro lacquer wore and chipped. I read it was the main reason he started using Rosewood fretboards and experimenting with different finishes.

[Stuco]

It looks cool imo. I guess you should use poly for your next guitar if you don't want chips.

[bad porcupine]

Originally Posted by Stuco

It looks cool imo. I guess you should use poly for your next guitar if you don't want chips.

I would agree, if it were 10 years old. Or even one year old.

[bottled]

It looks like it has flaked off very easily.

Did you bash it badly?

How was it refinished ie. number of coats?

[4string]

Ouch! That suks.... no suggestions other than starting with a wash coat (highly reduced initial coat of sanding sealer) that gets the sealer to penetrate into the wood fiber creating a stronger bond. Haven't a clue how to do this with spray cans.

Primo burst; looks great!

[otterhound]

Question #1 . What did you use for a base coat ? Oil finishes do not chip .

[bad porcupine]

Originally Posted by bottled

It looks like it has flaked off very easily.

Did you bash it badly?

How was it refinished ie. number of coats?

Yeah man, came right off. I just bumped it against the back of a love seat, kind of on the corner of the frame, which is hard, but covered in some pretty heavy fabric. It blows me away that it came off so easily.

My finish process was: sanding sealer, color coats, and (I thought) quite a bit of clear lacquer; probably 5 or 6 spray cans.

Too much? Not enough?

[adjason]

for some reason I had a real bad experience with stew mac a few years ago-I used their sanding sealer and lacquer on a mohagany body and it literally can be scrpaed off with my fingernail-I have since gone to Reranch products without incident. Yours doesnt look quite as bad as mine but all I could come up with was something happened between the bond of sanding sealer and nitro............

[bad porcupine]

Well, I've recently become a Reranch convert, so I'm hoping for the best...

[Buckocaster51]

Your first assignment is to resize those pictures before you link to them. This software reduces everything to 600 pixels wide, to post photos wider than that makes unnecessary demands on the software and bandwidth.

Now to your finish problem.

Hard to see what is going on because although the photos are HUGE, the problem area is relatively small...

The color coat came off. So I think we can rest assured that the lacquer and color coat are firmly bonded.

The problem is probably in the bonding of the color coat and whatever is under it.

Is it bare wood?

Is it sealed wood?

The answer is probably there.

You say the products were all StewMac.

Which products are they?

It might also be an issue with the surface prep of what is under the color.

The truth is out there.

[bossaholic]

If you can match the color, I'd use gloss Watco lacquer as a clear coat. Tough stuff, but still nitro. I really don't use anything else.

[Buckocaster51]

In the smaller of the "dings" I am seeing some dimensionality. Is it gouged into the wood?

Do you remember how that happened?

[bad porcupine]

Originally Posted by Buckocaster51

Your first assignment is to resize those pictures before you link to them. This software reduces everything to 600 pixels wide, to post photos wider than that makes unnecessary demands on the software and bandwidth.

Now to your finish problem.

Hard to see what is going on because although the photos are HUGE, the problem area is relatively small...

The color coat came off. So I think we can rest assured that the lacquer and color coat are firmly bonded.

The problem is probably in the bonding of the color coat and whatever is under it.

Is it bare wood?

Is it sealed wood?

The answer is probably there.

You say the products were all StewMac.

Which products are they?

It might also be an issue with the surface prep of what is under the color.

The truth is out there.

Sorry for the large images

Now that you mention it, I now recall that I applied a coat of Tru-Oil, let it dry, and scuff-sanded it before starting the lacquer process. I suppose that's probably it, then.

Then again, I did the same with the neck, and it seems to be rock solid, finish-wise. But maybe I haven't just banged it around enough yet.

StewMac products: sanding sealer, color coats, and clear gloss lacquer. But, I can only assume that the Tru-Oil is the culprit...

[4string]

Did it chip down to the sanding sealer? Down to the Tru-oil? Or all the way down to the wood? If you can determine that, it may point out a culprit.

I had assumed previously it was down to the wood.

[bad porcupine]

Originally Posted by 4string

Did it chip down to the sanding sealer? Down to the Tru-oil? Or all the way down to the wood? If you can determine that, it may point out a culprit.

I had assumed previously it was down to the wood.

Hard to tell, Marty. It looks to me like bare wood, but I don't know how to determine it in any quantifiable way.

I guess, at this point, my question would be: is this a normal phenomenon or not, with nitro finishes? I can't imagine that it is.

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by bad porcupine

Sorry for the large images

Now that you mention it, I now recall that I applied a coat of Tru-Oil, let it dry, and scuff-sanded it before starting the lacquer process. I suppose that's probably it, then.

Then again, I did the same with the neck, and it seems to be rock solid, finish-wise. But maybe I haven't just banged it around enough yet.

StewMac products: sanding sealer, color coats, and clear gloss lacquer. But, I can only assume that the Tru-Oil is the culprit...

I think you are probably correct.

[Mike Simpson]

I use Shellac as a sealer / basecoat (Hock flakes and Behlens Bekhol not zinnser) under Behlens nitro stringed instrument lacquer and I have not had any problems like that.

That's too bad... looks like you put a lot of work into that and did a good job other than the flake.

[otterhound]

Amongst the things that I am learning is that you want vinyl sealer under nitro when using it on wood . I do not claim to know the chemical content of the myriad of products being sold out there , but it would make sense to be sure . I have been shown that I should apply the first coat of nitro over the final vinyl sealer coat while the vinyl sealer coat is still tacky . This makes for better adhesion . My instructor has been experimenting with Reranch products and likes them , so far . With some care , you should be able to spot that chip in . Nice job on the burst .

[flatfive]

As you may know, lacquer will "melt" into previous coats of
lacquer, but not into a coat of Tru-Oil.

Originally Posted by bad porcupine

Sorry for the large images

Now that you mention it, I now recall that I applied a coat of Tru-Oil, let it dry, and scuff-sanded it before starting the lacquer process. I suppose that's probably it, then.

Then again, I did the same with the neck, and it seems to be rock solid, finish-wise. But maybe I haven't just banged it around enough yet.

StewMac products: sanding sealer, color coats, and clear gloss lacquer. But, I can only assume that the Tru-Oil is the culprit...