grain filling/sand & sealer question

[tweed_pro]

So I applied about 3 heavy coats (wiped off the excess each time with a solvent soaked rag) of oil based grain filler, let it dry overnight. I rubbed it in with my hands across the grain.

The next day, I sanded the body down with 240G sandpaper, and sprayed a coat of Reranch sand & sealer. Waited an hour, sprayed again, let it dry overnight. Next day, I sanded it down with 240G sandpaper, did the same thing, and its drying tonight.

My question is this - after hearing about how a lot of people apply the sand & sealer BEFORE the grain filler (and again after) has me a little concerned. Should I apply another few coats of grain filler tomorrow, and do one more round of sand & sealer?

This is my first project, and I'm a little concerned about screwing up

[thepassivevoice]

Since you're using an oil-based filler, I think the only reason to apply the sealer before the filler would be to prevent the filler from staining the wood. If this isn't a problem, you should be OK.

[Colt W. Knight]

If you are level, no need to apply anymore grain filler.

There are a few reasons to apply sealer before grain filler.

1. The bare wood soaks up the solvents of the filler making it tougher to work with.
2. The Sealer fills in a lot of the pores making the grain filler stage easy and therefore reducing the amount of filler.

I am not familiar with your approach to grain filling? How did it work? Are you level?


When I apply oil base grain filler here is what I do.

1. Finish Sand
2. Appy sanding sealer
3. Sand with 220.
4. MIx my filler with thinner to make it about the consistency of snot.
5. pour it on the body, and massage the filler into the wood with my hand till it starts to become pasty.
6. Scrape it off flush.
7. Allow it dry, it ussually forms a whitish greyish film. Then buff the extra off with a rag.
8. Shoot another coat of sanding sealer. sand with 220. .
9. shoot another coat of sealer, buff with 000 steel wool .
10. clean with mineral spirits, dry, lacquer.

[tweed_pro]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I am not familiar with your approach to grain filling? How did it work? Are you level?

I do not believe I'm level, no. I could still see some shine in the grain.

Here's what I did the first round:

1. Finish sand with 220, followed by 320.
2. Apply grain filler (NOT mixed with paint thinner, this was probably a problem) with hands. massaging into the grain (across and with)
3. Allowed grain filler to dry for 20 minutes, removed excess with thinner-soaked rag
4. Applied another coat of grain filler, same application method
5. Removed excess with same rag, let guitar dry overnight, and proceeded to the sand & sealer phase as outlined in my first post.

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

When I apply oil base grain filler here is what I do.

1. Finish Sand
2. Appy sanding sealer
3. Sand with 220.
4. MIx my filler with thinner to make it about the consistency of snot.
5. pour it on the body, and massage the filler into the wood with my hand till it starts to become pasty.
6. Scrape it off flush.
7. Allow it dry, it ussually forms a whitish greyish film. Then buff the extra off with a rag.
8. Shoot another coat of sanding sealer. sand with 220. .
9. shoot another coat of sealer, buff with 000 steel wool .
10. clean with mineral spirits, dry, lacquer.

I'm curious, why don't you sand the grain filler with 220 after its dried overnight? I'm just going by the reranch instructions (which aren't all that clear, so I'm glad I can get some other advice )

So this time, I

1. Sanded with 220
2. Mixed thinner with the grain filler, like you suggested
3. Spread over the guitar with a putty knife, with the grain and across it
4. Massaged the grain filler with my hands the same way
5. Used a razor blade to remove the excess filler (I ran it with the grain)
6. Did about 4 passes on each side of the body (re-applying the filler, removing with razor)
7. Wiped down guitar with thinner-soaked rag

The guitar is drying right now, and it already has that film. I've now used the entire quart of grain filler. Good thing I went with the bigger size

One ongoing problem I've had however, is that when I would sand with 220, the sandpaper immediately gets "smoothed out", and doesn't really sand anything (I don't see much dust at all) Is that the grain filler getting all over the paper? I'm not quite sure what to do about that one, as my current sanding method doesn't seem to be doing anything, even after continually using new paper on the sanding block.

Thanks again guys.

[Colt W. Knight]

I would not wipe the dried grain filler with a solvent soaked rag. when its dry just buff it with some burlap or a rag. That's just making the grain filler wet again and the rag will pull some of it out. A quart of grain filler should do 4-6 bodies easy. I think you must be wasting a lot.

[tweed_pro]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I would not wipe the dried grain filler with a solvent soaked rag. when its dry just buff it with some burlap or a rag. That's just making the grain filler wet again and the rag will pull some of it out. A quart of grain filler should do 4-6 bodies easy. I think you must be wasting a lot.

I was just going by what reranch had in their instructions -

"Apply the filler by wiping across the grain. You can use a course cloth or your fingers to wipe the grain in. After it has dried about ten to twenty minutes the excess can be removed with a cloth dampened with mineral spirits"

If I do a project like this again, I'll skip the solvent soaked rag in the future.

Any suggestions on the sanding issue I've been having?

[Colt W. Knight]

I think those instructions maybe a bit confusing, once the grain filler has dried you can clean up with soaked rag, but I am not sure they mean to use it as part of the application process.

Your sanding issue is easy to fix. Don't Sand the filler. Just buff it with burlap or a stiff rag. That acts like a low grit sand paper. Then apply a few coat of sanding sealer over the grain filler. You can sand that stuff.

[tweed_pro]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I think those instructions maybe a bit confusing, once the grain filler has dried you can clean up with soaked rag, but I am not sure they mean to use it as part of the application process.

Your sanding issue is easy to fix. Don't Sand the filler. Just buff it with burlap or a stiff rag. That acts like a low grit sand paper. Then apply a few coat of sanding sealer over the grain filler. You can sand that stuff.

Unfortunately, that sanding problem also occured after I sprayed on two applications of sand & sealer. Perhaps I should get the brush-on type, to achieve better coverage?

[Colt W. Knight]

What type of sanding sealer are you using?

I use DEFT lacquer sanding sealer. It will clog the paper, but sanding is so quick, its not really a big deal. 1 sheet of 220 will do the job.

[tweed_pro]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

What type of sanding sealer are you using?

I use DEFT lacquer sanding sealer. It will clog the paper, but sanding is so quick, its not really a big deal. 1 sheet of 220 will do the job.

I'm using the Reranch stuff (http://reranchstore.stores.yahoo.net/sanandsealar.html)

I'll try again tomorrow after I apply another coat of sealer tonight (after buffing the grain filler with burlap as you suggested).